[Gr8Desire]

Um. er...  Loudness is a form of equalization.  Fact: equalization is necessary when volume is attenuated.  That's 80 year old research and is beyond reproach.

It follows that the Pono player will have inferior sound when played too loud or too quiet.  

What is the optimal SPL / volume level?  You will have to calibrate the Pono for every song you listen to.

The Pono argument against equalization isn't worthy of even a grade school student.

 

 

[sheldaze]

Please move your comments to the other Pono thread:
 
http://www.head-fi.org/t/629454/pono-neil-youngs-portable-hi-res-music-player
 
This thread is for comments regarding the sound of the Pono.

 

[doctorjazz]

The problem, as I recall it, in "loudness" in general, wasn't the theory part, it was that the implementation was generally off and incorrect, making the correction just a form of distortion. I also don't think headphone listening is the same as listening in a room, and I'm guessing the F-M correction is applicable in room settings, when listening levels are down to background levels or close, not slight variations at reasonable listening levels. I would guess (and I'll admit I have no real knowledge except years of audiophile craziness) that it isn't applicable to headphone listening at all...how often to you put on cans to very low levels for background music? How similar is the headphone experience to speaker listening in a room.
my $0.02
(Love how theory is so often a substitute for listening...see my quote below...)

 

[olddude]

  Please move your comments to the other Pono thread:
 
http://www.head-fi.org/t/629454/pono-neil-youngs-portable-hi-res-music-player
 
This thread is for comments regarding the sound of the Pono.

Please don't.  EQ is not in the cards for Pono, according to Charles Hansen in the Pono Community discussion.  If not having an EQ is a deal breaker for you, don't buy a Pono.  But talking about the fact that all players HAVE to have an EQ will go nowhere on a Pono thread, so please take it to a sound science thread or elsewhere.  These two threads are for discussion about Pono and how it sounds/works by people who have one (or two) or are looking to purchase one and are looking for feedback.  Esoteric discussions of sound science are not really appropriate here and have been ruled off-topic by the moderator.
 
Thanks for understanding.  

 

[Koolpep]

  Um. er...  Loudness is a form of equalization.  Fact: equalization is necessary when volume is attenuated.  That's 80 year old research and is beyond reproach.

It follows that the Pono player will have inferior sound when played too loud or too quiet.  

What is the optimal SPL / volume level?  You will have to calibrate the Pono for every song you listen to.

The Pono argument against equalization isn't worthy of even a grade school student.

 

That really sounds like so much fun, setting the EQ every time I change the song or the volume or change my headphones...
 
I never use EQ, for me it spoils my enjoyment as I am constantly fiddling instead of listening to music. I would happily buy a player without EQ. But if it rocks your boat, no problem. Lots of people swear by EQ but why the fight here?
 
Cheers,
K
 

 

[Gr8Desire]

 
Please don't.  EQ is not in the cards for Pono, according to Charles Hansen in the Pono Community discussion.  If not having an EQ is a deal breaker for you, don't buy a Pono.  But talking about the fact that all players HAVE to have an EQ will go nowhere on a Pono thread, so please take it to a sound science thread or elsewhere.  These two threads are for discussion about Pono and how it sounds/works by people who have one (or two) or are looking to purchase one and are looking for feedback.  Esoteric discussions of sound science are not really appropriate here and have been ruled off-topic by the moderator.
 
Thanks for understanding.  

I understand. This is certainly the last post I will make in this thread.  

Discounting respected researchers like Fletcher - Munson is not sound science. Their work provides a set of fundamental principles that are necessary for anyone who wants to understand even rudimentary audio concepts. Since you say basic audio theory is not interesting to Pono buyers, I will not break your bubble.


I will offer one parting comment: After buying several HD tracks and listening to them via VLC, Bitperfect and on a Pono, I suggest buyers tread carefully. I found HD content provides inconsistent results on all playback devices. A few tracks are great - most are about the same - and a limited number are a small step down. Here's the differentiator:  Finding HD content that has been remastered so it just sounds better. The big difference isn't 44/16 or 176.4/24. It is the superior mix-down after remastering.  This content on a Pono is good; but so is the same track via VLC through a good DAC. 

The corollary should be more interesting to a Pono buyer: Plenty of HD content (the majority, I suspect) is not remastered particularly well.  With this content you are stuck. No player will help very much. The Pono can't even add EQ to fix what the recording engineer didn't address when mastering for their targeted, statistically average playback device.  But that's what you say you want, so please enjoy.

Bye. (unsubscribe)

 

[vinjeman]

my bubble remains unbroken as always.  Thanks for explaining the whole loudness
issue...  

  you will be missed!
 
 
jhv  

 

 

[subguy812]

Does anyone know if there any plans to add EQ to Pono?

Ok ok just playing... Sitting on a plane listening to Hi Rez Toys in the Attic. It just sounds damn good. I cant wait to try the Pono with the Layla, it arrives this Thursday. I hope it pairs well.

 

[olddude]

 

[subguy812]

I have a couple of cables for sale....Pono terminated...Pm me

 

[FFBookman]

You don't need an EQ in the player. Experience the mix as it was designed by the artist, the engineers, and the producer. 
 
If the mix they chose for history isn't cutting it for you, try speaker placement, room treatment, or headphone positioning to change the mix. It will change dramatically with even the smallest adjustment here.
 
If the mix still isn't cutting it for you, put an EQ between the amp and the speakers. Simple. 
 
No need for the device whose goal is to recreate the digital signal in analog as faithfully to the original as possible to have a software EQ.
 
Just my opinion. I have never wished my ponoplayer has an EQ. Some of my amps do, and I use them maybe 10% of the time.

 

[FFBookman]

I have 9000 tracks. Is it sluggish to go through the list? I have a fiio X1 and it's a nightmare to scroll through.

No speed issues for me. Even the "scanning music library" when you swap cards is getting faster.  
Every firmware update has sped it up a bit, I can appreciate that.

 

[FFBookman]

   
Yes, Pono feels light in the hand, and the case, especially on the LE units, IMO, feels cheap as all get out.
 
THAT SAID, it is a tough little person...I have CP and I'm in a motorized chair, so my hands are a bit shaky...I've dropped by Pono from my chair to the floor on a few occasions (OK, maybe more) and that thing is still a champ, so, looks are deceiving, in this "case." haha 

The power of the triangle. PonoPlayer case can take lots of abuse, lots of drops, and it's light but sticky, so I think the case is nearly perfect.
 
The screen is definitely a weak point. But it's a screen, it has absolutely nothing to do with music.

 

[charleski]

  You don't need an EQ in the player. Experience the mix as it was designed by the artist, the engineers, and the producer. 
 
If the mix they chose for history isn't cutting it for you, try speaker placement, room treatment, or headphone positioning to change the mix. It will change dramatically with even the smallest adjustment here.
 
If the mix still isn't cutting it for you, put an EQ between the amp and the speakers. Simple. 
 
No need for the device whose goal is to recreate the digital signal in analog as faithfully to the original as possible to have a software EQ.
 
Just my opinion. I have never wished my ponoplayer has an EQ. Some of my amps do, and I use them maybe 10% of the time.

 
So, instead of having an EQ in the player, where it's convenient and can be done in the digital domain, you suggest adding a large set of analog components rated for high current in a separate box? Putting an EQ between the amp and speakers is the absolute worst choice, all amps that include tone controls place them well before the output amplification. But performing EQ in the digital domain before the DAC allows the use of far more sophisticated filters that avoid the inevitable losses and inaccuracy of analog manipulation, which will change over time and as the amp warms up.
 
The only way to experience the mix as it was originally produced would be to listen in the same room using the same speakers.

 

[olddude]

The Pono, according to a quote I read by Charles Hansen, is not going to have an eq because of the way it was implemented (designed).  So I wouldn't hold out much hope for one to magically appear in a software update.  So if an eq is what you HAVE to have, then I suppose your choices are to add on one (a stack) or find a different player.  Sometimes, as Mick sings, you can't always get what you want.