[davidhunternyc]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cool_Torpedo /img/forum/go_quote.gif I can assure that mine are bass-light without any comparo to any other R10. Someone told me here that if you wonder if yours are bass-lite or heavy, then are lights. Bass-heavies have a bass response which is deep and present. You just need to listen to material you know has the bass, and if it's not clearly there, then they're bass-lights. However I must say I haven't managed to listen to some bass-heavy pair yet.

I can't really tell which R-10's you prefer; the bass light or the bass heavy?
And what would the production numbers be on them?

 

[krmathis]

Quote:

Originally Posted by kool bubba ice /img/forum/go_quote.gif Very naive thinking.. Companies are in it to make money first & foremost.. Why spend millions on R&D for a ultra Hi end headphone that only a handful of people will buy? We live in a country that spits on quality headphones IMO.. & when 50.00 is pushing it for most people, why would any company go to the trouble to lose tons of money? Bragging rights? Sony has the R10. AKG has the K1000. AT the L3000. Sen has He 70/90. Grado has HP-1/PS-1.. Only Stax is turning out ultra hi end headphones currently.

Well, the have all gone that route before.
So what makes it more worth loosing money on developing and selling a high-end headphone in the 1990's than in 2008?

Its a niche market for sure. But have the market changed so much since the 1990's, when we had HE90, HE60, R10, Qualia 010, L3000, K1000, ...?

 

[PFKMan23]

Quote:

Originally Posted by krmathis /img/forum/go_quote.gif Its a niche market for sure. But have the market changed so much since the 1990's, when we had HE90, HE60, R10, Qualia 010, L3000, K1000, ...?

I'm sure this answer (or something very close to it) has been psoted before but I'll say it again. I for one believe the market conditions have changed. This change has come largely due to the fact that most people nowadays lsiten on the go/at the office/at the gym, etc... It's harder and harder to find people with enthusiast rigs, which would make developing a true statement headphone less attractive to these companies. The shift nowadays is to the computer as source/ipod/on the go crowd. That's where the market seems to be concentrated. That's why you ssee so many new portable, earbud and IEM types and comapratively few stationary headphones, not even looknig at he audiophile/enthusiast segment.

Keep in mind that audiophiles most likey make up less than 1% of the overall market. Couple that with the fact that the market sector for the high end audiophile is the tiniest subset of this.

 

[davidhunternyc]

Quote:

Originally Posted by krmathis /img/forum/go_quote.gif Well, the have all gone that route before. So what makes it more worth loosing money on developing and selling a high-end headphone in the 1990's than in 2008? Its a niche market for sure. But have the market changed so much since the 1990's, when we had HE90, HE60, R10, Qualia 010, L3000, K1000, ...?

I agree with Krmathis. If there isn't a market for them, then why have so many people read and responded to this post? What, Sony, the multi-billion dollar corporation that it is, can't justify headphones? As has been said previously, even if Sony doesn't make money, what an amazing marketing opportunity.

 

[Cool_Torpedo]

Quote:

Originally Posted by davidhunternyc /img/forum/go_quote.gif I can't really tell which R-10's you prefer; the bass light or the bass heavy? And what would the production numbers be on them?

I wish I knew. Since I've just listened to bass-lites I don't know if I'd like better the bass-heavies or not.
For comments from people having listened or living with both, I think I'd like the bass-lites better. They seem to agree that bass-lites have the resolution, air and space that makes them really special and unique. The bass-heavies, while very good at that too, don't achieve the same level and could be considered closer in sound to other high-end cans.

Rgrds

 

[Akabeth]

Quote:

Originally Posted by davidhunternyc /img/forum/go_quote.gif I agree with Krmathis. If there isn't a market for them, then why have so many people read and responded to this post? What, Sony, the multi-billion dollar corporation that it is, can't justify headphones? As has been said previously, even if Sony doesn't make money, what an amazing marketing opportunity.

1) Because people like to talk about these 'things'. Same thing why you post a video of a supercar vs. supercar video in youtube and there'll be a lot of views.

2) If you're in the Michigan Business School, try saying to the GSI on a discussion class... and see how he/she and the rest of the class looks at you. You say that in front of Sony Japan's board of directors and imagine how they'll look at you.

I'll tell you what. Their first replies would be somewhere along the lines, "Your argument?"

 

[PFKMan23]

Quote:

Originally Posted by davidhunternyc /img/forum/go_quote.gif I agree with Krmathis. If there isn't a market for them, then why have so many people read and responded to this post? What, Sony, the multi-billion dollar corporation that it is, can't justify headphones? As has been said previously, even if Sony doesn't make money, what an amazing marketing opportunity.

Keep in mind this is a concentration of a supreme minority sector of the market. So while it may seem like "so many people", that's only because we're a hobbyist website that's not representative of the overall market. Coule that with the fact that most people who have responded probably wouldn't be a in a position to buy the headphone if produced. Given the state of the world, I really don't feel a company like Sony would feel it's worth it to produce a reference level headphone, even as a limited edition. From where I stand, it seems that Sony has decided to specifically gravitate away from audiophiles.

 

[ansel1969]

I'm depressed now. I think I'm gonnal chuck it all in, sell my QUALIA's and get me a pair of Bose Quiet Comforts plugged into an ipod. I just want to die. Where's my AIBO? Here boy. What they put him down? Hell...What's the point. MOM! Dust off those 901's it's time for mid range to make a come back!

 

[davidhunternyc]

^^^ Yes, I agree. The above threads are so pessimistic. Some might say realistic, but I prefer to look at the glass as half full rather than half empty.

 

[yococo96]

now in 2010, two years after the last post, nothing has changed. 
of course there is hd800, t1, and ps1000 wich are awesome but not as mythical as the r10, the 010, or the he90.  010s are in my dream since I started to love headphone listening two years ago. hd 800 and the rest are great but they're relatively "affordable" compared to those I mentioned above. 
they're not as rare, i've heard that there's less 400 qualias in the world. there's no new reference in the very small world of high end headphone. 
I'm not saying that the hd800 isn't an awesome headphone, I'm just saying that when I listen to them I don't feel like I'm discovering a new world in music listening, like i'm re-discovering my music. exactly what i've felt when I first listened to the r10.
I never heard any la7000 but saw really great review about it. maybe a new reference. maybe my new reference. 
but anyway, none of them became a legend like the r10 does.

 

[sonance]

Wow, talk about a blast from the past - I remember this thread from a couple of years ago.
 
I've been around head-fi long enough (I was a lurker since the beginning of this forum) to know that the legends aren't always that easy to recognize when they're new. Some - sure, the Orpheus was always a dream system and no one ever had anything bad to say about it, but as to where the R10, Qualia, and especially the K1000 would fall in the pantheon of greats was not as easy to recognize because of all the mixed opinions and the initial post-FOTM sales in the forums and on the 'gon. I remember seeing K1000s being sold used rather cheap before production was discontinued. Just like Michael Jackson, there was a big surge of renewed interest after the announcement of the K1000's death.
 
I also wonder where some of today's newest phones will fall once the dust settles and production inevitably ceases: the Audeze LCD-2, the JH13/18 Pros (and DSP / Amp), the SR-007 Mk II and even the D7000, T1 and HD800. (Those last few are probably the most predictable of the bunch in terms of long term value because of high volume production).
 
Earlier in thread, there were some questions of whether things were fundamentally different now compared to the 90s. I think so, and in two significant ways. I think the amount of interest in headphones and head-fi has grown tremendously, and internationally. The number of members and volume of posts in this forum (and in the for sale sub-forums) and the last few Can Jams is pretty convincing evidence to support that. The market is larger. And secondly, the interest in, and quality of IEMs has grown tremendously - the question is whether that is enough to cut into the sales of high-end full sized headphones.
 
Full circle back to the topic - where is Sony in all this (and arguably Audio-Technica as well). They have built neither a new flagship full-size headphone nor a high end IEM in recent years. I would have thought that they would respond to the HD800 and T1, not to mention the explosion of high-end IEMs. They will probably just suddenly appear some day, a true successor to the R10s - I can't wait.

 

[Uncle Erik]

That's right, Sonance.  Nothing ever becomes revered until it goes out of production.  I remember the fights over the K-1000 while it was still on the market.  Its status has completely changed in the years since it went out of production.
 
Today, probably the best thing Sennheiser could do for the HD-800 would be to discontinue it.

 

[sonance]

Quote:

That's right, Sonance.  Nothing ever becomes revered until it goes out of production.  I remember the fights over the K-1000 while it was still on the market.  Its status has completely changed in the years since it went out of production.
 
Today, probably the best thing Sennheiser could do for the HD-800 would be to discontinue it.

The best thing for all the existing owners of the HD800 that is

- definitely!

 

[kool bubba ice]

There will never be another R10. Case closed. End of story.

 

[davidhunternyc]

Wow, yes, I'm surprised too at the resurrection of this thread! I have to concur with the above statement, that two years on, not much has changed. There hasn't been a R10 or Qualia replacement. O.K. guys, bear with me here, as I'm going to bring up the plastic issue again. My thoughts are not aimed at the HD800 specifically but what I notice about plastic in general. It seems that more and more, plastic is taking hold in the manufacturing of "durable goods". Ten years ago it was less so. Durable goods include refrigerators, stoves, and things like washing machines. Now that plastic has invaded these appliances it is no surprise that appliances are breaking down at higher rates than the past. My mother's Maytag lasted 20 years; not so her new  Sub-Zero. Add to this computer chips that expand, contract, oxidize, and have a 3 year shelf life, it seems we are now in the age of throw-away durable goods; headphones included. Depressing.