[nephilim32]

What

I've had my HD800 for a year and a quarter now. Tried about 15 amps (mostly vintage as I collect these but also some decent hp amps from Schiit, Matrix and Audio gd) 5 dacs (including Arcam, Cambridge audio, Beresford) and I can tell you FROM EXPERIENCE (yes I did shout that bit! ) that the Senn's main characteristic is transparency.
This is once you learn their basic power requirements. And this is as simple as this (there will always be exceptions as nothing is absolute)
More power = more bass. High current/ low impedance amps will give them razor sharp speed and dymanics up top but they can sound lacking below. High impedance amps will feed them more voltage and give them more bottom end and fullness into the mids, but sometimes at the expense of sub level tightness. 

Now this is where the experience part comes in. Until you have tried many amps or many dacs, you really won't know that the HD800 are extremely transparent. This is because they sound like whatever they are plugged into.

So, when experienced members give you recommendations, or are trying to persuade you to try other equipment, it is not because they are trying to persuade you - that you are wrong about this headphone. It is because they have learned themselves what is good or bad and are trying to help you.  

Now if it comes down to a mistrust of others subjective liking, then you really shouldn't be on a forum that gives out headphone advice and therefore just trust your own ears and go it alone.   

But I would seriously stop asking all the technical questions and listen to the experienced members advice on system matching, because knowing why an impedance curve affects this and that will not - I repeat NOT help you enjoy your 80's pop music. 
There are far too many variables in any hifi component to say what will happen if you change a resistor and what change that will be or how it will affect the sound- and there can be no 'general' answer to this.   

What a wonderful post. I sure wish I could try 15 amps with the HD 800's. anyway great research and findings. Thank you.
Also. How does that ARCAM DAC measure up for you? I just love it.

 

[nephilim32]

This is next on my list

I've been happy with the rDAC for years so even a slight improvement I'll be even happier. The rDAC is very natural 'analogue' sounding with great timing and I've found it to be a good match with HD800.     

Ahh here we are. ARCAM sits well with you.
Hey. Your gonna be very happy. I am utterly in love with it and really complements the 800's shining dynamics while smoothing out the treble a bit (warmer sounding) without colouring any of the dynamics like some warm tube amps do. My current set up is with the Burson and the ARCAM with the 800's and I am really wondering how on earth can my music sound better sonically?? I guess I'm very content.
The only thing is maybe replacing the Sens stock 8 stage OFC cable and upgrading that, but I am a bit weary about doing that cause I think the improvements or differences added will be externally minimal.
Your opinion in this matter is welcome.

 

[LugBug1]

Ahh here we are. ARCAM sits well with you.

Hey. Your gonna be very happy. I am utterly in love with it and really complements the 800's shining dynamics while smoothing out the treble a bit (warmer sounding) without colouring any of the dynamics like some warm tube amps do. My current set up is with the Burson and the ARCAM with the 800's and I am really wondering how on earth can my music sound better sonically?? I guess I'm very content.
The only thing is maybe replacing the Sens stock 8 stage OFC cable and upgrading that, but I am a bit weary about doing that cause I think the improvements or differences added will be externally minimal.
Your opinion in this matter is welcome.

Yup a few dac's have come and gone while I've kept the Arcam. Great little DAC for the money. 
 
There are so many conflicting opinions on replacing the cable. But the only reason I would do it would be for ergonomics or a shorter length. Now I'm not saying there won't be a subtle change in sound with an upgrade, but ime (with other headphones and replacements) the changes are too small for me to consider this as any priority for now.   

 

[Sorrodje]

Maybe we should stop trying to convince Silverears to understand something he does not want to hear?
 
 
The simple thing is that the HD800 can be EQ'd, modded, associated to well known compatible (choose your poison) gear in order to sound better to our ears. The fact is the HD800 is very sensitive to EQ and upstream gear change and that's easy to have very good or very bad results. But all fixes we can try definitely can't change the inherent nature of the HD800. If someone dislikes it , the best way to fix that is to return the HD800 and choose another headphone. No one in this thread would be offensed

.
 
 

 

[62ohm]

Ummm cool. So how extensively did you test the Hdv600 compared to the BHA-1?? Love to hear your findings in a bit more detail. Also, have you by chance tried the Burson soloist with the 800's? I think that Burson amp is the bees knees right now for me.

 
I compared both through two session of auditioning (SE output and input). On the first audition, I didn't bring my own dac so I used what's available at the store (Auralic Vega & Schiit Bifrost) and with those dacs, I like the BHA-1 better by quite a wide margin. On the second audition, I brought my own dac (a Cambridge DacMagic 100), and I liked the HDVA600 better, though not by far.
 
I'm sure these amps would compare quite differently if I auditioned them with balanced output, but to get the chance to audition them in person is something I can be grateful of 

 
I thought about getting the BHA-1 and save up some more to get the X-Sabre, but because I really like the way the HDVA600 sounds when driving the HD800 and fed by my DM100, I couldn't resist. The BHA-1 is bright, sure, but the treble is unbelievably smooth IMO. The bass punches unbelievably hard, but I find the HDVA600 to have more bass presence. I'm not sure which one to point as having more bass control, but if I have to pick I'd say the BHA-1 has the tighter bass. The HDVA600's bass sounds a bit like my WA3 OTL tube amp bass IMO.
 
Regarding the mids, I find the HDVA600 to have more mids presence. The BHA-1's mids sounds a bit spitty IMO, which may be caused by my dac since when I tested it with the Auralic Vega this problem does not exist. The HDVA600 is the more neutral amp to me, while the BHA-1 leans more towards the bright side. As mentioned before, even though the BHA-1 is a bright amp, I find its treble to be unbelievably smooth. Though a bit of warning, the BHA-1 is a ruthlessly revealing and unforgiving amp, whereas the HDVA600 is more forgiving.
 
Now, onto soundstage. The BHA-1 has one massive soundstage and headroom, yes, but the HDVA600 beats it in this regard IMO. The HDVA600 expand the soundstage of the HD800 to a degree I did not think was possible. Then there's the imaging....ahh its imaging. Listening to Eagles - Hotel California from the album Hell Freezes Over became one truly ethereal experience.
 
 
 
I tried the Burson Soloist SL before with an HD800, but I didn't quite like it. I can't recall why, as it has been a long time, but I remember preferring the WA7 to it.
I've just ordered a Norne Audio Skoll balanced cable for my HD800, which should arrive by next week. I'll post some update here (if I find any) afterward. As always, this is all just one person's opinion and your mileage may vary.

 

[whirlwind]

I am currently searching for a nice dac....one that is transparent to pair with my HD800.....would like to stay in the $800 or less category....I am willing to buy 2nd hand.
 
Is it worth it to go for balanced .....I have never had a balanced set-up......just throwing it out there......

 

[Priidik]

   
I compared both through two session of auditioning (SE output and input). 
 

You should try balanced I/O with the Senn amp. Its a different beast all together bal, at least to my ears. I don't know if the bal makes a big difference with BHA-1?
I think with its SE the Senn amp isn't worth the money, not even close, but i think via balanced it is.

 

[62ohm]

  You should try balanced I/O with the Senn amp. Its a different beast all together bal, at least to my ears. I don't know if the bal makes a big difference with BHA-1?
I think with its SE the Senn amp isn't worth the money, not even close, but i think via balanced it is.

 
Yeah that's what many have said as well, which is why I ordered a balanced cable right after I got home after the purchase. But what about the balanced input, would it make for a significant difference as well?

 

[reddog]

Is the schiit audio gungnir dac good with the HD800? I know the HD800 is particular about what amp sounds great with it, however I want to know if the HD800 is particular about the type of dac one uses.

Sorry all, after searching the thread about the gungnir dac, I feel my question was a bit redundant, but t thanks for the feedback. I feel I should save my money and see if the yggdrasil dac would be good for the HD800. Hope you all have a great day
Andrew/ Reddog.

 

[Priidik]

 
But what about the balanced input, would it make for a significant difference as well?

Regretfully i didn't try rca-s, maybe someone who has can tell. I haven't found any information about the amps operation logic, maybe someone knows
how the se signal gets split for push-pull operation inside?

 

[Maxx134]

..
May I suggest ARCAM irDAC. It's amazing for the money and completely high end. 2013 Whathifi.com's DAC of the year!
It's under 750$. A steal!!

This ^-^
I used this with my Hd800 and a woo wa7 and it was a great setup.

This is next on my list
I've been happy with the rDAC for years so even a slight improvement I'll be even happier. The rDAC is very natural 'analogue' sounding with great timing and I've found it to be a good match with HD800.     

The IrDAC dwarfs the older rdac

..
Also. How does that ARCAM DAC measure up for you? I just love it.

IMHO the IrDAC has a great
refined, smooth, clean and detailed sound.
There is no dac I am aware of in it's price range that can touch it.
You have to go at least $1k & up.
I had to get the equivalent of a X-Sabre to surpass it.
Too bad it doesn't do DSD files,
But not much easily available on that format yet anyway.

But as good as the IrDAC is,
I don't feel it is in top-tier, "end game" category.
Although it does approach it and for the price it is just a superior dac to much anything else.

 

[nephilim32]

This ^-^
I used this with my Hd800 and a woo wa7 and it was a great setup.
The IrDAC dwarfs the older rdac
IMHO the IrDAC has a great
refined, smooth, clean and detailed sound.
There is no dac I am aware of in it's price range that can touch it.
You have to go at least $1k & up.
I had to get the equivalent of a X-Sabre to surpass it.
Too bad it doesn't do DSD files,
But not much easily available on that format yet anyway.

But as good as the IrDAC is,
I don't feel it is in top-tier, "end game" category.
Although it does approach it and for the price it is just a superior dac to much anything else.

That's an ultra warm set up you would have there, especially with the WA 7. That's recreating an ultra high quality 120 gram pressing for sure.
As for the the irDAC. I find it incredibly difficult to imagine anything better than what the unit is capable of. I know it uses the 1796 PCM chip, and the SABRE chip I think is the top dog on the market right now. I wonder what the irDAC would sound like with a SABRE chip installed in it instead? Would it be that much warmer or smoother sounding than it already is? I am not sure. Anyway MAXX, love to hear some of your impressions of other DACS that you feel surpass the ARCAM's performance.
All in all. That is a great set up you have. I opted for the Burson soloist instead of a warm tube amp. I didn't want to risk coloring the HD 800's dynamics for trading in for a warmer sound.

 

[nephilim32]

I compared both through two session of auditioning (SE output and input). On the first audition, I didn't bring my own dac so I used what's available at the store (Auralic Vega & Schiit Bifrost) and with those dacs, I like the BHA-1 better by quite a wide margin. On the second audition, I brought my own dac (a Cambridge DacMagic 100), and I liked the HDVA600 better, though not by far.

I'm sure these amps would compare quite differently if I auditioned them with balanced output, but to get the chance to audition them in person is something I can be grateful of 

I thought about getting the BHA-1 and save up some more to get the X-Sabre, but because I really like the way the HDVA600 sounds when driving the HD800 and fed by my DM100, I couldn't resist. The BHA-1 is bright, sure, but the treble is unbelievably smooth IMO. The bass punches unbelievably hard, but I find the HDVA600 to have more bass presence. I'm not sure which one to point as having more bass control, but if I have to pick I'd say the BHA-1 has the tighter bass. The HDVA600's bass sounds a bit like my WA3 OTL tube amp bass IMO.

Regarding the mids, I find the HDVA600 to have more mids presence. The BHA-1's mids sounds a bit spitty IMO, which may be caused by my dac since when I tested it with the Auralic Vega this problem does not exist. The HDVA600 is the more neutral amp to me, while the BHA-1 leans more towards the bright side. As mentioned before, even though the BHA-1 is a bright amp, I find its treble to be unbelievably smooth. Though a bit of warning, the BHA-1 is a ruthlessly revealing and unforgiving amp, whereas the HDVA600 is more forgiving.

Now, onto soundstage. The BHA-1 has one massive soundstage and headroom, yes, but the HDVA600 beats it in this regard IMO. The HDVA600 expand the soundstage of the HD800 to a degree I did not think was possible. Then there's the imaging....ahh its imaging. Listening to Eagles - Hotel California from the album Hell Freezes Over became one truly ethereal experience.



I tried the Burson Soloist SL before with an HD800, but I didn't quite like it. I can't recall why, as it has been a long time, but I remember preferring the WA7 to it.
I've just ordered a Norne Audio Skoll balanced cable for my HD800, which should arrive by next week. I'll post some update here (if I find any) afterward. As always, this is all just one person's opinion and your mileage may vary.

Thank you so much for this intelligent, lucid response to your findings.
It sounds like the HDV600, the way you've described it, would be catered or geared towards my sound tastes. I'm a mid range guy and like an extremely wide sound stage with a very balanced bass, which is actually why I really love the soloist with the 800's. Too bad the soloist isn't your cup of tea, but I can totally understand why it's not everyone's cup of tea.
Anyway, let me know how that Norne XLR cable works out. Sheesh. You'll have enough gain to sink a ship!!

 

[nephilim32]

Yup a few dac's have come and gone while I've kept the Arcam. Great little DAC for the money. 

There are so many conflicting opinions on replacing the cable. But the only reason I would do it would be for ergonomics or a shorter length. Now I'm not saying there won't be a subtle change in sound with an upgrade, but ime (with other headphones and replacements) the changes are too small for me to consider this as any priority for now.   

Yup a few dac's have come and gone while I've kept the Arcam. Great little DAC for the money. 

There are so many conflicting opinions on replacing the cable. But the only reason I would do it would be for ergonomics or a shorter length. Now I'm not saying there won't be a subtle change in sound with an upgrade, but ime (with other headphones and replacements) the changes are too small for me to consider this as any priority for now.   

This is exactly how I feel about the whole cable upgrade game. I have to do more research on it, but I have been hearing some outrageous testimonies for Frank Donghi's TOXIC CABLES company. There is even an extremely large 'appreciation thread' dedicated to the praise and worship these cables can upgrade or give a difference to the HD 800's stock cable. I hear the OCC COPPER VENOM can smooth out the 800's bright treble and sibilance. The SILVER POISON can widen the HD 800's soundstage because a silver plated copper cable enhances the signal transmission...so they say! I am not a believer just yet cause the science behind it doesn't quite convince me yet. Anyhow. I'm with you on this.
Listen I will tell you something. I bought a Pangea SE 9 AC power cord upgrade that is 12 AWG and has litz copper and personal silicone conductors to replace the stock AC cable on my Burson Soloist and I hear absolutely no difference at all, so the 'cable' game has left me a bit sour thus far. That Pangea cable cost me 150$ and the only thing I can say is that it is cool to look while hooked up to my amp. It's a fat beast! That's it, sadly.

 

[skeptic]

I've been very tempted by the irdac due to my substantial enjoyment of my arcam cdp (really dvd player but only used for audio playback) over the years.  The company clearly knows how to build a good sounding source and has been doing so for a very long time.
 
The issue holding me back (and making me question the value proposition) is the lack of a linear regulated PSU (which my 10 year old CDP certainly has....)  While other current dac makers are focusing on highly regulated psu's, embedded battery supplies etc. as a key means of limiting jitter - I just don't get why arcam left it out of the irdac and bundled in a wallwart.  (The same criticisms have been directed towards ifi for it's "ifi usb" which has been shown to output a much cleaner signal if you hook up a 5v regulated supply).  Arcam could have bumped the price by $100 and included something like a sigma 11 or wire psu board and amveco transformer.  Instead, people are going out and spending several hundred dollars on outboard psu's - which seriously takes away from the street cred of the product imo.  I've still almost pulled the trigger myself on a half dozen occasions but am now planning to wait out the admittedly much more expensive bottlehead fpga dac.