[Luke Skywalker]

I’ve had a pretty good experience with my Questyle M15 using Vision EXT, JH Audio Lola, and even Audeze LCD-2 cans. However some people are dealing with EMI issues

 

[ClieOS]

I’ve had a pretty good experience with my Questyle M15 using Vision EXT, JH Audio Lola, and even Audeze LCD-2 cans. However some people are dealing with EMI issues

Isn't M15 an USB dongle and not a BT adapter?

 

[Luke Skywalker]

Isn't M15 an USB dongle and not a BT adapter?

Ah yes... Sorry about that *head smack*

 

[C_Lindbergh]

Is there any APTX Adaptive adapter that works with IFi Go Blu's 5100 SoC? Unforutantly that the 5100 SoC was already dated upon the inital release of the product.

 

[Deathman666]

A quick comparison:

FiiO BTR3K, BTR5(2021), BTR7
Qudelix 5k
iFi GO blu

Listening via Bluetooth LDAC, 3.5mm unbalanced on Galaxy S21Ultra, mostly MP3 320kbps, also some FLAC. Custom Art Fibae 7 Unlimited Headphones.


Over the past 2 weeks I've had all these devices at home for audio and user interface comparisons.

I'll take the sound quickly, because apart from the iFi, which is slightly warmer, they all sound exactly the same. Some users write here about more details, more space, dynamics, etc. To my ears, they just play the same. The only difference is the performance if you need to wake up more demanding headphones. Which is not my case. And so, for me, the difference is mainly in the possibility of use.

I have had the BTR3K for two years now and am very happy with it. It is small, light, excellently made. Battery life around 7 hours, which is actually the only thing that bothers me a little about it. It happened to me several times that the juice ran out at the most inopportune moment and I had to listen to people in the public transport for God's sake On the balanced output of 2.5 mm, the endurance is even worse. But this is logical and applies to all devices, with the difference that the BTR7 and Go blu have a balanced 4.4mm. The buttons on the side are quite small and not very easy to find blindly, but I got used to it. BT range very decent, throughout the apartment (75m2) without problems. The plastic clip is excellent for attaching to a belt, trousers, t-shirt, etc. And what is important, the device can be put in it in any way, so you can have the cable from the headphones downwards, which is invaluable if you have a cable with a straight connector. God how I hated Qudelix, but more on that later.

The BTR5 is actually exactly the same, it's just bigger and has more power if you need it. According to the documents, the battery life is even shorter (about 2 hours), but I did not measure it. The range of BT around the apartment is ok, but I know that some complain that even if the phone is in one pocket and the BTR5 is in the other pocket, they experience blackouts. I didn't have that problem anyway.

The BTR7 is already losing the concept of portable for me, moreover, the sharp edges are not pleasant. Case without a clip and an ugly gray color that gets dirty right away. The durability should be similar to BTR5. The performance is even slightly higher thanks to THX amplifiers. In my opinion, the display is just an unnecessary waste of energy. A huge sign of codec and encoding is useless. Anyway, everyone will only use LDAC and knows in which format they are listening. I still get the battery info, but since it doesn't show percentages and FiiO only gives battery info in a 100, 80, 60, 40, 20% way, it's also pretty irrelevant. The range of BT around the apartment is ok, I haven't tried anything else.



The Qudelix 5K is small, lightweight with a built-in clip. Unfortunately, it also has absolutely senselessly placed buttons that are opposite each other, so if you grab the device with two fingers, 90% of the time you press both. Also, their stroke is very poor and feels cheap. There is a tiny bump on the play/pause button, which is the only difference in how you can tell blindly where you are reaching. The control is just a pain for me. The built-in clip is nice, but since it is close to the body due to its thickness, it cannot be pulled away by pressing, which is sometimes problematic when trying to fasten it. Its biggest problem, however, is that the headphone connector points upwards after being clipped on, which, as I already wrote here, is firstly prone to breaking it and secondly, it stabs you either in the stomach if it is on a belt, or in the neck if it is often like me you fasten it to the T-shirt right at the neck. The battery life varies according to the manufacturer in the range of 6-20 hours depending on the settings. I got about 8 hours (LDAC, unbalanced) on the "Standard" profile and output power "Normal" with the EQ off. I don't really understand how you can get to some 13 hours, which some users give. If I turned on Performance and High, I would be much lower. But what's great about 5K is the app where you can set absolutely everything, including PEQ. The Bluetooth range is great, I had the opportunity to test it with my father-in-law, who has a huge two-story house, and I didn't notice any sign of a dropout anywhere.



I like iFi GO blu the most from the point of view of use, but everything is not as it seems at first glance. It is small, light and the volume control using the rotary control in which there is a built-in Play/Pause button is great and the best thought out of all. It's great to sew in my pocket! Battery life is also the best. I had 50% after seven hours, so I think 13 hours is realistic. Now for the negatives. The volume wheel is a little loose and it's not very pleasant. Overall, the workmanship was disappointing, as I discovered after unpacking that the front silver plastic cover had come off. According to the head-fi thread, I'm not alone. In addition, other users reported that both black parts were unglued, since the GO blu is the only one that is glued. The input for headphones is slightly avoided, which according to the photos, many owners have. Another thing is the annoying message about the codec. 99% of people will never change the codec and they know the one they have set, so they really don't need to hear EL DÝ EJ SI every time they turn on the device, even if.. the voice that says it is really sexy. This device will not be suitable for sensitive headphones either. Even at very low volume, background noise can be heard, which is intensified by turning on XBass and more XSpace functions, which are otherwise well implemented and do not distort (XBass at all, XSpace a little) the sound. Bluetooth range is the worst here, I experienced dropouts in different parts of the apartment where others were fine. A case with a clip can be bought for 30e(!) and is really ugly and makes the device much bigger. In addition.. the case must be part of the package, after all it is a portable BT DAC for God's sake, where is one supposed to put it? And I don't really take it into my pocket as a solution. This also applies to the BTR7, although portability can already be debated there.



The bottom line is that I stuck with the good old BTR3K because as befits such a device, it is small, light, has a clip that I can put it in as I need it, decent durability and plays as well as the others. In addition, it is the cheapest, and by a lot compared to some others. For an IEM, the performance is absolutely sufficient. We'll see what happens next in this still quite limited segment.

(my english is bad so google translate)

 

[marekm]

Bluetooth range is the worst here,

iFi Go Blu's trademark

 

[Hanesu]

A quick comparison:

FiiO BTR3K, BTR5(2021), BTR7
Qudelix 5k
iFi GO blu

Listening via Bluetooth LDAC, 3.5mm unbalanced on Galaxy S21Ultra, mostly MP3 320kbps, also some FLAC. Custom Art Fibae 7 Unlimited Headphones.


Over the past 2 weeks I've had all these devices at home for audio and user interface comparisons.

I'll take the sound quickly, because apart from the iFi, which is slightly warmer, they all sound exactly the same. Some users write here about more details, more space, dynamics, etc. To my ears, they just play the same. The only difference is the performance if you need to wake up more demanding headphones. Which is not my case. And so, for me, the difference is mainly in the possibility of use.

I have had the BTR3K for two years now and am very happy with it. It is small, light, excellently made. Battery life around 7 hours, which is actually the only thing that bothers me a little about it. It happened to me several times that the juice ran out at the most inopportune moment and I had to listen to people in the public transport for God's sake On the balanced output of 2.5 mm, the endurance is even worse. But this is logical and applies to all devices, with the difference that the BTR7 and Go blu have a balanced 4.4mm. The buttons on the side are quite small and not very easy to find blindly, but I got used to it. BT range very decent, throughout the apartment (75m2) without problems. The plastic clip is excellent for attaching to a belt, trousers, t-shirt, etc. And what is important, the device can be put in it in any way, so you can have the cable from the headphones downwards, which is invaluable if you have a cable with a straight connector. God how I hated Qudelix, but more on that later.

The BTR5 is actually exactly the same, it's just bigger and has more power if you need it. According to the documents, the battery life is even shorter (about 2 hours), but I did not measure it. The range of BT around the apartment is ok, but I know that some complain that even if the phone is in one pocket and the BTR5 is in the other pocket, they experience blackouts. I didn't have that problem anyway.

The BTR7 is already losing the concept of portable for me, moreover, the sharp edges are not pleasant. Case without a clip and an ugly gray color that gets dirty right away. The durability should be similar to BTR5. The performance is even slightly higher thanks to THX amplifiers. In my opinion, the display is just an unnecessary waste of energy. A huge sign of codec and encoding is useless. Anyway, everyone will only use LDAC and knows in which format they are listening. I still get the battery info, but since it doesn't show percentages and FiiO only gives battery info in a 100, 80, 60, 40, 20% way, it's also pretty irrelevant. The range of BT around the apartment is ok, I haven't tried anything else.



The Qudelix 5K is small, lightweight with a built-in clip. Unfortunately, it also has absolutely senselessly placed buttons that are opposite each other, so if you grab the device with two fingers, 90% of the time you press both. Also, their stroke is very poor and feels cheap. There is a tiny bump on the play/pause button, which is the only difference in how you can tell blindly where you are reaching. The control is just a pain for me. The built-in clip is nice, but since it is close to the body due to its thickness, it cannot be pulled away by pressing, which is sometimes problematic when trying to fasten it. Its biggest problem, however, is that the headphone connector points upwards after being clipped on, which, as I already wrote here, is firstly prone to breaking it and secondly, it stabs you either in the stomach if it is on a belt, or in the neck if it is often like me you fasten it to the T-shirt right at the neck. The battery life varies according to the manufacturer in the range of 6-20 hours depending on the settings. I got about 8 hours (LDAC, unbalanced) on the "Standard" profile and output power "Normal" with the EQ off. I don't really understand how you can get to some 13 hours, which some users give. If I turned on Performance and High, I would be much lower. But what's great about 5K is the app where you can set absolutely everything, including PEQ. The Bluetooth range is great, I had the opportunity to test it with my father-in-law, who has a huge two-story house, and I didn't notice any sign of a dropout anywhere.



I like iFi GO blu the most from the point of view of use, but everything is not as it seems at first glance. It is small, light and the volume control using the rotary control in which there is a built-in Play/Pause button is great and the best thought out of all. It's great to sew in my pocket! Battery life is also the best. I had 50% after seven hours, so I think 13 hours is realistic. Now for the negatives. The volume wheel is a little loose and it's not very pleasant. Overall, the workmanship was disappointing, as I discovered after unpacking that the front silver plastic cover had come off. According to the head-fi thread, I'm not alone. In addition, other users reported that both black parts were unglued, since the GO blu is the only one that is glued. The input for headphones is slightly avoided, which according to the photos, many owners have. Another thing is the annoying message about the codec. 99% of people will never change the codec and they know the one they have set, so they really don't need to hear EL DÝ EJ SI every time they turn on the device, even if.. the voice that says it is really sexy. This device will not be suitable for sensitive headphones either. Even at very low volume, background noise can be heard, which is intensified by turning on XBass and more XSpace functions, which are otherwise well implemented and do not distort (XBass at all, XSpace a little) the sound. Bluetooth range is the worst here, I experienced dropouts in different parts of the apartment where others were fine. A case with a clip can be bought for 30e(!) and is really ugly and makes the device much bigger. In addition.. the case must be part of the package, after all it is a portable BT DAC for God's sake, where is one supposed to put it? And I don't really take it into my pocket as a solution. This also applies to the BTR7, although portability can already be debated there.



The bottom line is that I stuck with the good old BTR3K because as befits such a device, it is small, light, has a clip that I can put it in as I need it, decent durability and plays as well as the others. In addition, it is the cheapest, and by a lot compared to some others. For an IEM, the performance is absolutely sufficient. We'll see what happens next in this still quite limited segment.

(my english is bad so google translate)

I absolute share your experience that almost all current dongles on the market have their (major!) quirks (and I agree with many of your points). Up to this day there is none that doesn`t have them and I am still waiting for the "perfect BT device". I might try Dethonray SG1 soon, though it is kind of big.

iFi Go Blu's trademark

For whatever reason BT range is totally fine with mine. Hiss is a much bigger problem with Go Blu for me. There is no way around that Go Blu hisses quite a bit with many (not just a few) IEMs (otherwise it would be a perfect device for me)!

 

[ClieOS]

The problem with Dethonray SG1 is that it has a measured performance of a FM radio.

Only the first batch Go Blu suffers from range issue. After my first reporting on it, iFi secretly revised all subsequent batch to correct it.

 

[Hanesu]

The problem with Dethonray SG1 is that it has a measured performance of a FM radio.

Only the first batch Go Blu suffers from range issue. After my first reporting on it, iFi secretly revised all subsequent batch to correct it.

Yeah, I read about it in the SG1 thread. Though, I must say I could not fully understand the graphs that were linked. Could you explain that a little more in detail and what it supposedly has for an influence on the listening experience? Also, it was said in the thread that it might have been software related and might eventually been solved through Dethonray?
The SG1 gets those raving reviews by a lot of people and I have gotten curious. For sure it seems to color the sound, but seemingly in a tasteful way? Though, I have read reviews that are the complete opposite in terms of sound description (Headphonia vs Audiophile Heaven, for example). Hmmmm......I really don`t know what to think and would love to try by myself.

 

[ClieOS]

Yeah, I read about it in the SG1 thread. Though, I must say I could not fully understand the graphs that were linked. Could you explain that a little more in detail and what it supposedly has for an influence on the listening experience? Also, it was said in the thread that it might have been software related and might eventually been solved through Dethonray?
The SG1 gets those raving reviews by a lot of people and I have gotten curious. For sure it seems to color the sound, but seemingly in a tasteful way? Though, I have read reviews that are the complete opposite in terms of sound description (Headphonia vs Audiophile Heaven, for example). Hmmmm......I really don`t know what to think and would love to try by myself.

Let take SINAD for example. It stands for 'signal-to-noise and distortion ratio',, which basically means how much relative unwanted noise and distortion you are going to hearing alongside the music. The bigger the number the least unwanted noise you will hear. A typical real high-end device will have SINAD around the 110dB or better range. A 'good' device will be around 100dB range. A half-decent device will be around 90dB or so range - and SG1 is 30dB. That means SG1 is actively generate distortion and noise that is only 30dB lower than the main music signal, and that you can definitely hear it by your ears. The most scary part however, is that some people will refer to this as being musical or euphonic and praise SG1 for its 'unique' SQ.

 

[Hanesu]

Let take SINAD for example. It stands for 'signal-to-noise and distortion ratio',, which basically means how much relative unwanted noise and distortion you are going to hearing alongside the music. The bigger the number the least unwanted noise you will hear. A typical real high-end device will have SINAD around the 110dB or better range. A 'good' device will be around 100dB range. A half-decent device will be around 90dB or so range - and SG1 is 30dB. That means SG1 is actively generate distortion and noise that is only 30dB lower than the main music signal, and that you can definitely hear it by your ears. The most scary part however, is that some people will refer to this as being musical or euphonic and praise SG1 for its 'unique' SQ.

Thanks a lot for your explanation! And I won`t disagree from this perspective, especially because I don`t have enough knowledge about the engineering standpoint. Could you maybe explain a little bit more in detail, how the term "noise" is defined here? For me as a layman it is hard to understand how quite a few experienced reviewers seem to hear something as "pleasant" that is supposed to be "disturbing sounds" (my own definition of "noise")?

It`s almost a philosophical discussion, but I feel there had always been two standpoints in our community/hobby:
- "Audiophile" means enjoyment of "uncoloured" sound that is true to "what the artist created".
- "Audiophile" means enjoyment of "tastefully presented" sound, "whatever one hears as good sound sounds good for oneself" (and maybe others who have a similar taste).

Both standpoints include relative/subjective factors imo (obviously the second one more so). And after being in the hobby for a while, many of us end up somewhere in the middle.

By the way, I have become so curious now that I ordered a SG1. I want to hear by myself! I am ready to sell it again if I am not happy....

 

[marekm]

Only the first batch Go Blu suffers from range issue. After my first reporting on it, iFi secretly revised all subsequent batch to correct it.

In later editions BT range has indeed been improved, but it is still at the lower end of the scale compared to competition

The device would probably need to be redesigned to achieve significant improvement.

 

[iFi audio]

In later editions BT range has indeed been improved, but it is still at the lower end of the scale compared to competition

Yup, we listened to the feedback from folks here on HF about GO blu's range and that issue was sorted indeed. Thanks!

 

[marekm]

Yup, we listened to the feedback from folks here on HF about GO blu's range and that issue was sorted indeed. Thanks!

1. Fixing own ****-ups is hardly a reason for boasting.
2. You never acknowledged that there was a problem that needed fixing.
3. You showed your corporate middle finger to all those early adopters, who trusted you and bought their units based on your statements that Go Blu is indeed a good product. Clearly it was not.

 

[ClieOS]

Thanks a lot for your explanation! And I won`t disagree from this perspective, especially because I don`t have enough knowledge about the engineering standpoint. Could you maybe explain a little bit more in detail, how the term "noise" is defined here? For me as a layman it is hard to understand how quite a few experienced reviewers seem to hear something as "pleasant" that is supposed to be "disturbing sounds" (my own definition of "noise")?

It`s almost a philosophical discussion, but I feel there had always been two standpoints in our community/hobby:
- "Audiophile" means enjoyment of "uncoloured" sound that is true to "what the artist created".
- "Audiophile" means enjoyment of "tastefully presented" sound, "whatever one hears as good sound sounds good for oneself" (and maybe others who have a similar taste).

Both standpoints include relative/subjective factors imo (obviously the second one more so). And after being in the hobby for a while, many of us end up somewhere in the middle.

By the way, I have become so curious now that I ordered a SG1. I want to hear by myself! I am ready to sell it again if I am not happy....

All electronic components in a device generate some level of unwanted noise when it is in operation (as physic tells us that energy is always lost since no system is perfect, and some of the energy lost in a circuit becomes noise). Noise is basically whatever signal that is not part of the original / intended signal and is added by the circuit itself. Typically in the old days, loudspeaker system can pass with a 10% distortion / noise test. On most personal audio devices these days, general consensus is that you need to be 1% or less (about -40dB) to claim to be 'Hi Fi' (as 1% is generally believed to be the threshold of obvious detection on noise/distortion). But for true audiophiles equipment, we usually looking for 0.0x% for minimum or even 0.00x% (-60 to -100 dB range) as norm. Simply put, we want the source to reproduce the music as faithfully as possible.

I am personally on the school that some coloration can be beneficial, but only on a limited scope. Any source device should have it's basic engineering done correctly, then whatever fine-tuning / coloration can take place from that. Coloration is NOT and should NEVER be allowed to be a free pass for bad engineering.

As for how a person's ear can lie and how a reviewer might not even know he /she is biased, here are two examples of mine: First, Shanling UP4 - early reviews and impressions all praised how good it was, but my first two week of listening told me something was way off. I actually ended up building some special cable rig just to measure it and the result was that it has really bad distortion and phase mismatch. I reported the issue here in this thread, Shanling took notice and released a new firmware to address the issue. While UP4 never did measure as great as it's competition, at least it was decent enough after firmware update. That bakes the question of how those early reviewers could have missed distortion and phase mismatch so bad and praised UP4 for it? My guess is that either they never did listen to UP4 before writing or they simply have really crappy hearing. Either way, that's not good for those who are misled by their review. Will however give credit to Shanling as they learned from their mistake and UP5 has really good measurement. Second example is iBasso CF01 - I immediately noticed it has weak output and caused severe coloration to my multi-driver IEM. Again, made a special cable rig to measure it and turned out it has 20 ohm of output impedance (and for reference, any thing that designed to drive multi-driver IEM, such as CF01, should have 1 ohm or less in output impedance in order to avoid any coloration). Almost all the reviews I found on CF01 at the time just praised how great CF01 was, but none mentions it has super weak output power (probably in single digit mW range) and it completely change the FR curve on most if not all multi-driver IEM. Surprisingly no one noticed any of that when it only took me less than 10 minutes to feel something is way off. After my reporting in the forum, iBasso rep actually had the audacity to refute my claim and said my measurement was wrong as they CF01 has only 1 ohm of output impedance and would provide proof. Well, they never did - though I got confirmation from another CF01 owner that his CF01 measured the same as mine.

Measurement is not the end of everything, but it does help us - including users, reviewers, manufacturers and the community as a whole, keep a heathy and honest opinion to our hobby. For me personally, I always take reviews with big grain of salt.