The Fiio A5 thread: an upgrade of E12A, MUSES02+LME49600, 800mW, 19Vp-p, 12 hours
Nov 6, 2016 at 9:05 AM Post #121 of 1,039
Hi!

I was just about purchasing A5 when I've read it's warm. I want neutral sounding thing. Should I look for something else?
I use iPhone 6s+ with it's in-ears and Sony MDR-XB50AP. Occasionally ATH-M50X.
Thanks!
 
Nov 6, 2016 at 10:31 AM Post #122 of 1,039
Don't get me wrong when I called it warm, it just seems more warm than the older E12 I had a couple years ago. Definitely not warm as the definition goes.
 
Nov 6, 2016 at 4:27 PM Post #123 of 1,039
All,
 
i hope the guys from FiiO pick this one up: I have been using the A5 for a couple of days with FiiO X5 and Sennheiser HD600.  Something was just off, then i decided to run some audiophile tests just to discover that the left and right channels were overlapping.  And the fault was in the FiiO provided headphone-to-headphone cable to connect the line-out of the X5 with the line-in of the A5.  Replacing this cable solved the issue.
 
Shame on you FiiO to provide a faulty cable - or for not doing QA in the factory on your cables.
 
Hope this helps fix the issue.
 
Nov 6, 2016 at 5:24 PM Post #124 of 1,039
All,

i hope the guys from FiiO pick this one up: I have been using the A5 for a couple of days with FiiO X5 and Sennheiser HD600.  Something was just off, then i decided to run some audiophile tests just to discover that the left and right channels were overlapping.  And the fault was in the FiiO provided headphone-to-headphone cable to connect the line-out of the X5 with the line-in of the A5.  Replacing this cable solved the issue.

Shame on you FiiO to provide a faulty cable - or for not doing QA in the factory on your cables.

Hope this helps fix the issue.


I generally replace the free included accessories with my own custom kit.
 
Nov 6, 2016 at 10:46 PM Post #125 of 1,039
  All,
 
i hope the guys from FiiO pick this one up: I have been using the A5 for a couple of days with FiiO X5 and Sennheiser HD600.  Something was just off, then i decided to run some audiophile tests just to discover that the left and right channels were overlapping.  And the fault was in the FiiO provided headphone-to-headphone cable to connect the line-out of the X5 with the line-in of the A5.  Replacing this cable solved the issue.
 
Shame on you FiiO to provide a faulty cable - or for not doing QA in the factory on your cables.
 
Hope this helps fix the issue.

Hi, csaba73
Sorry for bringing that inconvenience to you. Maybe it is a bad cable and we failed to pick it up.
The cables use for headphone-to-headphone and linein to lineout are both 3.5mm to 3.5mm audio cable. Thank you for your feedback.
 
FiiO Stay updated on FiiO at their sponsor profile on Head-Fi.
 
https://www.facebook.com/FiiOAUDIO https://twitter.com/FiiO_official https://www.instagram.com/fiioofficial/ https://www.fiio.com support@fiio.com
Nov 7, 2016 at 2:32 AM Post #126 of 1,039
  All,
 
i hope the guys from FiiO pick this one up: I have been using the A5 for a couple of days with FiiO X5 and Sennheiser HD600.  Something was just off, then i decided to run some audiophile tests just to discover that the left and right channels were overlapping.  And the fault was in the FiiO provided headphone-to-headphone cable to connect the line-out of the X5 with the line-in of the A5.  Replacing this cable solved the issue.
 
Shame on you FiiO to provide a faulty cable - or for not doing QA in the factory on your cables.
 
Hope this helps fix the issue.

What test did you run? How did you run it?
 
Nov 7, 2016 at 9:11 AM Post #128 of 1,039
I was going to  buy E21A for iems. Should I get A5 instead?
confused_face(1).gif

 
Nov 7, 2016 at 1:22 PM Post #129 of 1,039
I was going to  buy E21A for iems. Should I get A5 instead? :confused_face(1):

If you're looking to drive mostly IEMs, it'd make sense to go for E12a. Sonically, I've read, they are very similar. So the E12a here will have the advantage of a better battery as well. In addition to that, if you have some harder to drive full sized cans, then A5 would make sense.
Hope this helps :)
 
Nov 7, 2016 at 1:32 PM Post #130 of 1,039
If you're looking to drive mostly IEMs, it'd make sense to go for E12a. Sonically, I've read, they are very similar. So the E12a here will have the advantage of a better battery as well. In addition to that, if you have some harder to drive full sized cans, then A5 would make sense.
Hope this helps
smily_headphones1.gif


Thanks! I will use iems only. I'm looking at pico slim too. E12A is quite big compared to my sony A26 DAP.
 
Nov 7, 2016 at 5:43 PM Post #131 of 1,039
I really don't understand you Fiio. X7 price increase, moreover X7 amp has bad crosstalk. DAP and dac/amp are replaced even faster than before, and now, you remove fiio e12a. It's not fair... Sure the sound of an amp is subjective to everyone. We haven't same system, same cans etc... However, i am sure you can ask any electronic engineer, there are some objective specifications of a good amp like low distortion, SNR etc...
 
That's why this new amp shouldn't replace the e12a model:
-The battery life is really decrease, so why don't let people choose the one they want ? Lower voltage but better battery life, or High voltage and lower battery life, or better battery life on a5 as options...
-The crosstalk is one more time ignored... I have e12 and e12a on my own, i can really hear a huge stereo difference because the crosstlak is 20db better on e12a, and a5 haven't this great crosstalk. It's really important because loud speakers on headphones are very close...
-distortion in low gain not really important at this point, 0.001% difference isn't huge, however in high gain, 0.01% THD a bit high because headphones distortion and others settings add a lot distortion, but that's great result compare too some other manufacturers.
 
Now let's talk about voltage required for headphones. To be easy to understand, a low impedance headphones need high current, whereas high impedance ones need high voltage. It's deduce form Ohm law: U = Z x I and the power P = U x I. However, except if you want to be dull as fast as possible..., all good amp have enough of both to reach high dynamic. You don't listen for a 120db peak of a drum... Believe me, your ears will give up before you can hear it... The difference you hear from a high voltage amp, is not about dynamic max level, we don't listen enough loud for, but about rise time. (fastest time possible by the amp to change from low voltage value to high one, generally 10% to 90%) It's all about it. The more voltage you get, The less rise time is. And it is really important, because if the sound level change too fast, your amp can't reproduce it, and you lose some sound details. You need more and more short rise time when frequency is high, because the more high is the frequency, the less time you have to change sound level. That's why some amps seems sound warmth, neutral, sharp etc... It's all about taste.
 
about the e12, almost all specifications seems better overall, maybe not for distortion graph in high gain, but i am pretty sure fiio e12 graph was only low gain, that's why distortion lower than a5 in high gain, and voltage peak is a bit under e12 15.5V. So, it's ok to replace the e12 only.
 
So lot manufacturers know how to do a good amp, but they don't care about it, the goal is to sell not to satisfied the customer...
There are easy rules to know what is a good amp.
However i understand fiio want make pretty cheap amp for people. I am sure they can make a portable amp with really more voltage, more battery life as you can see on smartohones, high 100db crosstalk and so on, if it will be really more expensive. Really expect it.
 
Nov 7, 2016 at 7:33 PM Post #132 of 1,039
  I really don't understand you Fiio. X7 price increase, moreover X7 amp has bad crosstalk. DAP and dac/amp are replaced even faster than before, and now, you remove fiio e12a. It's not fair... Sure the sound of an amp is subjective to everyone. We haven't same system, same cans etc... However, i am sure you can ask any electronic engineer, there are some objective specifications of a good amp like low distortion, SNR etc...
 
That's why this new amp shouldn't replace the e12a model:
-The battery life is really decrease, so why don't let people choose the one they want ? Lower voltage but better battery life, or High voltage and lower battery life, or better battery life on a5 as options...
-The crosstalk is one more time ignored... I have e12 and e12a on my own, i can really hear a huge stereo difference because the crosstlak is 20db better on e12a, and a5 haven't this great crosstalk. It's really important because loud speakers on headphones are very close...
-distortion in low gain not really important at this point, 0.001% difference isn't huge, however in high gain, 0.01% THD a bit high because headphones distortion and others settings add a lot distortion, but that's great result compare too some other manufacturers.
 
Now let's talk about voltage required for headphones. To be easy to understand, a low impedance headphones need high current, whereas high impedance ones need high voltage. It's deduce form Ohm law: U = Z x I and the power P = U x I. However, except if you want to be dull as fast as possible..., all good amp have enough of both to reach high dynamic. You don't listen for a 120db peak of a drum... Believe me, your ears will give up before you can hear it... The difference you hear from a high voltage amp, is not about dynamic max level, we don't listen enough loud for, but about rise time. (fastest time possible by the amp to change from low voltage value to high one, generally 10% to 90%) It's all about it. The more voltage you get, The less rise time is. And it is really important, because if the sound level change too fast, your amp can't reproduce it, and you lose some sound details. You need more and more short rise time when frequency is high, because the more high is the frequency, the less time you have to change sound level. That's why some amps seems sound warmth, neutral, sharp etc... It's all about taste.
 
about the e12, almost all specifications seems better overall, maybe not for distortion graph in high gain, but i am pretty sure fiio e12 graph was only low gain, that's why distortion lower than a5 in high gain, and voltage peak is a bit under e12 15.5V. So, it's ok to replace the e12 only.
 
So lot manufacturers know how to do a good amp, but they don't care about it, the goal is to sell not to satisfied the customer...
There are easy rules to know what is a good amp.
However i understand fiio want make pretty cheap amp for people. I am sure they can make a portable amp with really more voltage, more battery life as you can see on smartohones, high 100db crosstalk and so on, if it will be really more expensive. Really expect it.

 
 
You're unhappy with E12A going out? There are many new units available in many stores... I haven't heard A5 yet, so I won't say how it sounds before I do. Maybe it kept the best from both worlds? 
 
Nov 7, 2016 at 11:15 PM Post #133 of 1,039
Looking out for a direct comparison to the Cayin C5 as price-wise and spec, it is the nearest other brand competitor.
 
I'm hoping the A5 can power Fostex T20-RP Mk3 on high gain with some good headroom space left.
 
Nov 8, 2016 at 3:54 PM Post #134 of 1,039
I just bought an A5 to replace my ancient Xin SuperMacro 3 v.6 with 627 opamps. I use Etymotic ER4Ss with custom molds.
I use the high gain mode, and end up having the volume turned up about halfway. That's not crazy loud; it's just loud enough. There's no hiss or distortion at those settings.
The verdict? I like it. Excellent control over the bass, with great depth and pitch definition. Midrange is neutral as can be. It's just a touch rolled off way up high, but it's still on the OK side of what I consider accurate.
The only negative is that the mini cable that came with it to connect the amp to the mp3 player didn't work. I switched it out for some Cardas cable I had from my previous setup, and it worked fine.
Overall? Well done, Fiio, well done. It's a keeper.

UPDATE: after a couple hours of listening, I've determined that low gain mode, with more twist of the volume knob, has no high frequency roll off, slight as it was in high gain mode. In low gain, with the volume knob about 3/4 to the max, this amp is basically perfect for me and my taste in sound signature. I can't stress enough how amazing its control over bass is.

 

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