The discovery thread!
May 11, 2024 at 5:19 PM Post #100,921 of 131,436
Ha. Wasn't meant as a call out. Just a minor frustration. I mean, no one wants to make an IEM that no one likes. But the market is so insanely saturated that it seems like fertile ground for bringing overdue attention to outsider tunings. Not just the unknown brands and models, but the under-appreciated voicings. I'm thinking in particular about speaker and full-size headphone brands who are known for making non-neutral, unorthodox tunings at affordable prices (boutique brands like Zu Audio and Grado, and also large corporate brands like Klipsch and Sennheiser).

I'm not saying there aren't IEM brands that don't depart from the norm. There are, obviously. But they almost always get blasted for it.
That's what we have @o0genesis0o for. He likes to point out those IEMs that are weirdly tuned or out of the box tuning or off-kilter but intriguing tunings are sharing them with us.
 
May 11, 2024 at 5:27 PM Post #100,922 of 131,436
That's what we have @o0genesis0o for. He likes to point out those IEMs that are weirdly tuned or out of the box tuning or off-kilter but intriguing tunings are sharing them with us.
For sure. I feel like this thread has been an excellent resource. Just wish that the folks who spent so much time and effort on reviews didn't feel so constrained by preference and target curves. The whole concept of a "preference target" is ludicrous to me. It's like saying that green beans in butter and garlic sauce is your "preferred flavor target" and anything that departs from that "profile" is complete garbage. Seems silly.
 
May 11, 2024 at 5:43 PM Post #100,923 of 131,436
Akros said that the Tangzu Xuan NV isn't as good as the Trio which has me screaming internally because I BADLY want that lovely red IEM over the rather ugly gray Trio... hmm.

The Xuan NV is super comfortable balanced sound. I think if you had a large collection, it may not make sense since it won't excel in any one thing but if you wanted something that's a step up, IMO, I like it. I also haven't tried the trio though.
 
May 11, 2024 at 5:55 PM Post #100,924 of 131,436
For sure. I feel like this thread has been an excellent resource. Just wish that the folks who spent so much time and effort on reviews didn't feel so constrained by preference and target curves. The whole concept of a "preference target" is ludicrous to me. It's like saying that green beans in butter and garlic sauce is your "preferred flavor target" and anything that departs from that "profile" is complete garbage. Seems silly.
I absolutely can't relate to this problem, but I wonder if that may stem from me not reading reviews anymore because I gave up on the idea of upgrading.

The thought of finding an upgrade for me seems like a colossal task when I EQ like this:
graph (28).png


Not sure how I'd go about interpreting reviews when I EQ like this either. And don't ever count on me writing reviews ever. Doing so would probably test everyone's sanity.
 
May 11, 2024 at 6:08 PM Post #100,925 of 131,436
I absolutely can't relate to this problem, but I wonder if that may stem from me not reading reviews anymore because I gave up on the idea of upgrading.

The thought of finding an upgrade for me seems like a colossal task when I EQ like this:
graph (28).png

Not sure how I'd go about interpreting reviews when I EQ like this either. And don't ever count on me writing reviews ever. Doing so would probably test everyone's sanity.

Finding something inexpensive you like and that has been reliably measured, and then EQ-ing it to your favorite target, is one way to get to where you want to be. If that’s what makes you happy, then more power to you. 🎶👍
 
May 11, 2024 at 6:32 PM Post #100,926 of 131,436
Oh boy, Simgot about to wreak havoc on my bank account again...


Dafuq, a new one?

My Supermix4 hasn’t even left their warehouse / factory 💀

Not new, but still ba. Hell of a set. I thought I'd share with ya'll.


Casually flexing Elysian, aren’t we 😤

How does that IEM match your target so well?How is it even possible.

Diva 2023 is something I respect but not really crazy about when I tested. Maybe it’s the shells and comfort problem.

For sure. I feel like this thread has been an excellent resource. Just wish that the folks who spent so much time and effort on reviews didn't feel so constrained by preference and target curves. The whole concept of a "preference target" is ludicrous to me. It's like saying that green beans in butter and garlic sauce is your "preferred flavor target" and anything that departs from that "profile" is complete garbage. Seems silly.

I think most people I know make it clear that preference curve is to visualise the signature they like rather than to “judge”. Sir guy vsg28 for example makes it clear in every review.

Neutral target is another topic though. Because IEM has no “flat”, it is important to have a target that shows “flat” so we have an anchor to discuss (“too bright”. Okay, bright against what?) Of course there are those who review IEM by how many dB they are away from Harman curve. Even Harman target creator Dr Sean Olive mentioned on twitter that he is disappointed when people match the curve rather than thinking, so

I like to remain open minded but the neutral target is there for a reason. Some (expensive) IEMs are so wonky that I just can’t 😂

But I do like oddballs like Yvain and Gaea, because most of my other IEMs sound roughly the same.

I absolutely can't relate to this problem, but I wonder if that may stem from me not reading reviews anymore because I gave up on the idea of upgrading.

The thought of finding an upgrade for me seems like a colossal task when I EQ like this:


Not sure how I'd go about interpreting reviews when I EQ like this either. And don't ever count on me writing reviews ever. Doing so would probably test everyone's sanity.

Your upgrade should be a campfire audio IEM. Big bass, tight peak way before 3kHz and then all over the place in the treble region. Without looking at the label, I thought it is Dorado or something from the chromatic series 😂
 
May 11, 2024 at 8:10 PM Post #100,928 of 131,436
The CRAPro has hit Rambone's fan...errrr...porch.
 
May 11, 2024 at 9:43 PM Post #100,929 of 131,436
Because without 10 mediocre sets you will not know which excellent one is for you.
It is a very good point to consider - how much is needed to know what can be great for someone. I have quite a few anekdotal stories, but skip them.
One relevant piece of wisdom (that I learned from one of the SciFi stories) is that in order to ask a good question one often needs to know most of the answer.

So if one has a clear idea of a preferred sound signature, a bag of tips to fine-tune, etc. - it can work out great.
Plus the source, so it won't be just one mid/total IEM, a good source to drive IEM is needed (despite being a great fan of an Apple dongle, I know its limits, and learned a bit hard way of the source importance).
I am in the camp that considers sources being most cost-effective at about 30-40% of one's total chain value. Then personally, I found enough difference in DACs and good enjoyment exploring the synergy to get DACs at about the same price as IEMs.

My recent addition is the older one that now became reasonably affordable (to me) and my first (!), I realized, item in this hobby not made in China.
20240510_165559.jpg

20240510_165609.jpg

Opposite to my (perhaps, naive) expectations of "magical A&K" rendering with shimmering mids, amazing layering or something, I just hear nice and energetic Cirrus implementation with great dynamics. Cool (both in terms of enjoyment and operating temperatures).
I hope to have a lot of fun comparing A&K HC2 with Fiio KA17 and my other (now secret) favourite DAC. I hope it is the very last piece that I needed to complete my audiophile journey :wink:
 
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May 11, 2024 at 10:02 PM Post #100,930 of 131,436
It is a very good point to consider - how much is needed to know what can be great for someone. I have quite a few anekdotal stories, but skip them.
One relevant piece of wisdom (that I learned from one of the SciFi stories) is that in order to ask a good question one often needs to know most of the answer.

So if one has a clear idea of a preferred sound signature, a bag of tips to fine-tune, etc. - it can work out great.
Plus the source, so it won't be just one mid/total IEM, a good source to drive IEM is needed (despite being a great fan of an Apple dongle, I know its limits, and learned a bit hard way of the source importance).
I am in the camp that considers sources being most cost-effective at about 30-40% of one's total chain value. Then personally, I found enough difference in DACs and good enjoyment exploring the synergy to get DACs at about the same price as IEMs.

My recent addition is the older one that now became reasonably affordable (to me) and my first (!), I realized, item in this hobby not made in China.


Opposite to my (perhaps, naive) expectations of "magical A&K" rendering with shimmering mids, amazing layering or something, I just hear nice and energetic Cirrus implementation with great dynamics. Cool (both in terms of enjoyment and operating temperatures).
I hope to have a lot of fun comparing A&K HC2 with Fiio KA17 and my other (now secret) favourite DAC. I hope it is the very last piece that I needed to complete my audiophile journey :wink:

I'm testing Joe Bloggs new convolution filters on R4. The power of DSP built upon good DAC and good amp, combining with a capable enough IEM is pretty mindblowing, like beyond the little nitpicking about a bit more stage here, a bit less dynamic there to show what else we can get with personal audio.

Elysian Pilgrim (flat, capable IEM with extensions to both ends) + room simulation baked into convolution filters + simple EQ to bring the 500Hz up and cut 1kHz = *chef kiss

Edit: I have an idea. Let's try EA1000 and see what the PR driver can do.

Now, imaging if there is a USB DAC device that embeds these DSP tricks inside and works in a way that does not create noticeable audio latency. That would be so good. There was the Creative X1, but its DSP was overbaked for music and the amp itself was pretty noisy. A better implementation would be great.
 
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May 11, 2024 at 10:19 PM Post #100,932 of 131,436
I absolutely can't relate to this problem, but I wonder if that may stem from me not reading reviews anymore because I gave up on the idea of upgrading.

The thought of finding an upgrade for me seems like a colossal task when I EQ like this:


Not sure how I'd go about interpreting reviews when I EQ like this either. And don't ever count on me writing reviews ever. Doing so would probably test everyone's sanity.
I love it. I wish folks like you did do reviews! I used to own a Hola, but gave it to my partner. I just couldn't deal with the bloomy bass-into-mids. But, wow, you just went for it and turned them into something completely different. I really dig it. Just imagine if reviewers routinely applied EQ to the sets they reviewed. They'd have nothing to talk about!
 
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May 11, 2024 at 11:01 PM Post #100,933 of 131,436
I'm testing Joe Bloggs new convolution filters on R4. The power of DSP built upon good DAC and good amp, combining with a capable enough IEM is pretty mindblowing, like beyond the little nitpicking about a bit more stage here, a bit less dynamic there to show what else we can get with personal audio.

Elysian Pilgrim (flat, capable IEM with extensions to both ends) + room simulation baked into convolution filters + simple EQ to bring the 500Hz up and cut 1kHz = *chef kiss

Edit: I have an idea. Let's try EA1000 and see what the PR driver can do.

Now, imaging if there is a USB DAC device that embeds these DSP tricks inside and works in a way that does not create noticeable audio latency. That would be so good. There was the Creative X1, but its DSP was overbaked for music and the amp itself was pretty noisy. A better implementation would be great.
Absolutely, using even a simpler equalizer is very cost-effective (that is why I feel that there is a carefully cultuvated mantra that "real audiophiles" do not equalize - they spend money to support the hobby).

Then DSP can bring it to the next level (delays are only crucial for gaming and live sreaming, not for pure music enjoyment). Hiby MSEB is quite good to start with, so Joe taking it further sounds great.

An ultimate solution in this direction (at least according to the Science Forum here) is Realizer. Smyth Realizer - https://smyth-research.com/

Again, I just wish multichanel recordings becoming a reality to have all real venue acoustics, sound layerings, etc. rather than artificially (or semi-artificially) recreating it.
 
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May 11, 2024 at 11:42 PM Post #100,934 of 131,436
I was intrigued on Xuan NV because how pretty it is and it seems to be good balanced tuning,
but then i come across uuuh, Akros review and comparison



In which he change his opinion on Trio and rank them higher after getting the "right" eartip that give better insertion
while he thinks Rhapsody still have an edge over Trio, against Xuan Nv?
"There is nothing in Xuan Nv can do better than this (Trio)"

also he noted that had Trio is released by different brand like Moondrop, the audio community will rave about it way harder than it is now
---
I suppose back to waiting for Aful Explorer
 
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May 12, 2024 at 12:13 AM Post #100,935 of 131,436
The CRAPro has hit Rambone's fan...errrr...porch.
LOL @ the CRAPro.

Speaking of CRAPro, some initial impressions since there are a few waiting.

CCA CRAPro

+ Resolving, good tonality, very clean sounding.
+ Immaculate from top to bottom
+ Sub-bass is agile, extended and clean.
+ Treble has some sparkle
+ Comfortable and manageable nozzle size.
- Treble does lean a bit bright at times depending on source, YMMV.
- May require some EQ or source gear with bass emphasis to get the most out of the low end. (Very much a preferential thing).

This one was tossed to my 'Schiit pile' (multiple schiit stacks) that consist of a Midgard, Asgard 3, Magni Unity, Magni Piety and Magni Heretic, Vali 2 with a revolving DAC pool of the Modi Multibit 2, Modi E and a few wildcards such as a Topping D10s, iFi Zen DAC air and a Lavaudio D600. This gives me the widest pool of potential synergies and view into the IEM.

The CRAPro (lol) seems to be a nice resolving set, good tonality and VERY clean sounding. Immaculate from top to bottom. The stage hasn't really changed as far as I can remember from the previous CRA models. Depending on your DAC and amp pairing, the sub-bass can sound pretty agile, extended and clean. Not really much emphasis on rumbly, slow or visceral kind of bass to generate much excitement BUT you can try a DAC that has some bass emphasis to get better results or just EQ (it really does improve). Going to the mid-range, there is a tad bit of (tasteful) warmth there from the mid bass but overall there is just enough note weight to keep things from sounding boring. Depending on what IEM or source chain you just came from I did notice the mids can sound pretty thin. (Damn you Kiwi Ears Singolo). I probably won't see this as a con for now because I just came off the Singolo early today and is something I'm adjusting to without much trouble. Upper mids on this set can make female vocals sound bright and a bit forward. The treble brings some sparkle BUT depending on your source the treble could get a bit fatiguing at higher listening volumes. YMMV here but for a majority of my gear I was just fine.

I've only dicked around with Dunu S&S tips so far and the default installed tips. I'll probably get through more later and swapping out that stock cable. My attention is also a bit divided as I got that TRN ST7 in as well. CRAPro is pretty comfortable with manageable nozzle size that should do well with most.

I like the CRAPro, it seems to be a reasonably well tuned IEM.

As for value, well, the $30 range is absolutely brutal right now and godspeed to anybody trying to pimp out sets in this price bracket. If you liked the last CRA+ model, I guess you would feel at home here. I'm not really seeing this set as one that I would personally reach for again. Something like the CCA Trio is more my speed for this price range.

Edit / Update:
+ Schiit Vali 2 to the tested pool.
- Strikethru on I'm not really seeing this set as one that I would personally reach for again. After using the Vali 2+, the bass just got really aggressive and fun. Midrange a little more lusher and sound stage a bit more expansive. Daddy likes! Straight up Vali 2+ and Modi Multibit 2 for the win here with the CRAPro, hot damn!
 
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