[Singaravelan]

Here's a review of the Celest Pandamon 2.0: https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/kinera-celest-pandamon-2-0.27146/reviews#review-33443




Pros:
Decent accessories
Beautiful aesthetics
Comfortable ergonomics
Easy to drive
Warm, pleasant and non-fatiguing
Thick note weight, lush "musical" sonics
Non-shouty upper midrange
Very safe treble, no sibilance

Cons:
Fussy with source pairing due to low impedance
Not for trebleheads due to a treble roll-off
Bass is on the slower side, with a lack in texturing
Below average technical chops


8 kHz is a coupler artefact peak:

I have noticed not many iem's bass satisfy you. If by chance you find slam with oomph, texture never quite there :- )

Curious: what are the iems where you find bass to be to your almost total satisfaction? Anything under 300 usd that makes you go 'oh yes, that bass rocks in all aspects? Or 500?

And while we are at it, what exactly does bass texture mean? Thanks

 

[superuser1]

Curious: what are the iems where you find bass to be to your almost total satisfaction? Anything under 300 usd that makes you go 'oh yes, that bass rocks in all aspects?

That a question i am curious about too
@baskingshark

 

[theintention]

That bottom left cable looks awesome! What kind of cable is that?

All are from ivipQ

https://a.aliexpress.com/_mrZyhds

was way less money during the sales, I had everything made modular.

 

[baskingshark]

I have noticed not many iem's bass satisfy you. If by chance you find slam with oomph, texture never quite there :- )

Curious: what are the iems where you find bass to be to your almost total satisfaction? Anything under 300 usd that makes you go 'oh yes, that bass rocks in all aspects? Or 500?

And while we are at it, what exactly does bass texture mean? Thanks

That a question i am curious about too
@baskingshark

I think others will have their own opinions and definitions, but would also be interested in hearing what the others (and your goodselves too) have to say about bass quality in general?

Personally, for me, the definition of bass texture would be that you can hear layers and fine nuances/micro-details when bass notes are hit. So in essence, you can tell apart different instruments or tones at the same bass frequency.

Something that has bad texture in the bass = you hear a big blob of one-noted resonance in the bass, and have difficulty telling apart separate tones with overlaps. This is partially related to bass bleed and speed, perhaps also related to the bass driver and quantity of bass in the tuning.

I use a FLAC version of Sting's Englishman In New York to test bass quality:


At around 7 seconds in, you hear a double bass note here in this video - so if it is textured, you can roughly tell that the note is stretched out with a gradual decay at the end of the note, which is how stringed instruments play in real life. Something that is not textured will be just one blob all the way, no difference between the start of the note and the end.

At around 2:15 there is a fast double bass solo, and if a transducer can do texturing well, you can hear individual bass notes being plucked without smearing into the next note. Some poorer transducers will blend everything without individual definition.

Haha sorry we are committing the audiophile sin of using music to listen to audio gear, instead of using gear to listen to music LOLOL.

Anyway, so far the best texturing I have is in my Sony M9, but that is a BA bass IEM so generally they are faster in bass with less decay than a traditional DD. Another pure BA set, the EPZ 530 at $300ish USD, is quite textured in the bass.

 

[o0genesis0o]

I think others will have their own opinions and definitions, but would also be interested in hearing what the others (and your goodselves too) have to say about bass quality in general?

Personally, for me, the definition of bass texture would be that you can hear layers and fine nuances/micro-details when bass notes are hit. So in essence, you can tell apart different instruments or tones at the same bass frequency.

Something that has bad texture in the bass = you hear a big blob of one-noted resonance in the bass, and have difficulty telling apart separate tones with overlaps. This is partially related to bass bleed and speed, perhaps also related to the bass driver and quantity of bass in the tuning.

I use a FLAC version of Sting's Englishman In New York to test bass quality:


At around 7 seconds in, you hear a double bass note here in this video - so if it is textured, you can roughly tell that the note is stretched out with a gradual decay at the end of the note, which is how stringed instruments play in real life. Something that is not textured will be just one blob all the way, no difference between the start of the note and the end.

At around 2:15 there is a fast double bass solo, and if a transducer can do texturing well, you can hear individual bass notes being plucked without smearing into the next note. Some poorer transducers will blend everything without individual definition.

Haha sorry we are committing the audiophile sin of using music to listen to audio gear, instead of using gear to listen to music LOLOL.

Anyway, so far the best texturing I have is in my Sony M9, but that is a BA bass IEM so generally they are faster in bass with less decay than a traditional DD. Another pure BA set, the EPZ 530 at $300ish USD, is quite textured in the bass.

Personally, bass is textured for me if the bass guitars, doublebasses, and lower strings of cellos sound like “Brrrrm” rather then “unmmm”.

The Singolo has quite decent bass texture if the fit is right. Most IEMs are only okay with this texture, IMHO. A few are bad, a few are better.

 

[Ace Bee]

Someone need to join my 634ears Miroak-II fan club, feel so alone with this model. 350usd single DD made in Japan by Musashi, master at his work. I guess due to only being available directly from him few buys or knows about the brand, been my top 3 in IEMs since I got it last summer. for my taste no DD I have tried after has beaten it, that being TS-316, EA1000 or OD200.

Actually dedicating my first YT video to it, was supposed to finish editing this Easter. Delays and problems, so maybe next weekend

Hey man, I am with you. I just upgraded it to the LOAK-2(CL) with a copper backplate, that's all.

 

[superuser1]

I think others will have their own opinions and definitions, but would also be interested in hearing what the others (and your goodselves too) have to say about bass quality in general?

Personally, for me, the definition of bass texture would be that you can hear layers and fine nuances/micro-details when bass notes are hit. So in essence, you can tell apart different instruments or tones at the same bass frequency.

Something that has bad texture in the bass = you hear a big blob of one-noted resonance in the bass, and have difficulty telling apart separate tones with overlaps. This is partially related to bass bleed and speed, perhaps also related to the bass driver and quantity of bass in the tuning.

I use a FLAC version of Sting's Englishman In New York to test bass quality:


At around 7 seconds in, you hear a double bass note here in this video - so if it is textured, you can roughly tell that the note is stretched out with a gradual decay at the end of the note, which is how stringed instruments play in real life. Something that is not textured will be just one blob all the way, no difference between the start of the note and the end.

At around 2:15 there is a fast double bass solo, and if a transducer can do texturing well, you can hear individual bass notes being plucked without smearing into the next note. Some poorer transducers will blend everything without individual definition.

Haha sorry we are committing the audiophile sin of using music to listen to audio gear, instead of using gear to listen to music LOLOL.

Anyway, so far the best texturing I have is in my Sony M9, but that is a BA bass IEM so generally they are faster in bass with less decay than a traditional DD. Another pure BA set, the EPZ 530 at $300ish USD, is quite textured in the bass.

We are talking about bass quality and texturing and you didn't even mention a Hybrid let alone a single DD, that is interesting to me and would lead me to understand you like fast ADSR instead of the more natural ADSR of a decently competent DD like the one on the Falcon Ultra?

 

[baskingshark]

We are talking about bass quality and texturing and you didn't even mention a Hybrid let alone a single DD, that is interesting to me and would lead me to understand you like fast ADSR instead of the more natural ADSR of a decently competent DD like the one on the Falcon Ultra?

Falcon Ultra has quite decent bass texturing ya, but there's slight bleed and it isn't the fastest in complex bass tracks. Well at least compared to say the EPZ 530.

But definitely, for a single DD, the Falcon Ultra is one of my favourites compared to other midFI single DD.

 

[Okcerg]

listening for the last month only to NEO 3 have to mention at this point that this has to be my all time favorite tuning from exactly anything i ve heard till now at this hobby.....

Same here, I've found "my iem". Haven't used any other set since I got these.

 

[Singaravelan]

I think others will have their own opinions and definitions, but would also be interested in hearing what the others (and your goodselves too) have to say about bass quality in general?

Personally, for me, the definition of bass texture would be that you can hear layers and fine nuances/micro-details when bass notes are hit. So in essence, you can tell apart different instruments or tones at the same bass frequency.

Something that has bad texture in the bass = you hear a big blob of one-noted resonance in the bass, and have difficulty telling apart separate tones with overlaps. This is partially related to bass bleed and speed, perhaps also related to the bass driver and quantity of bass in the tuning.

I use a FLAC version of Sting's Englishman In New York to test bass quality:


At around 7 seconds in, you hear a double bass note here in this video - so if it is textured, you can roughly tell that the note is stretched out with a gradual decay at the end of the note, which is how stringed instruments play in real life. Something that is not textured will be just one blob all the way, no difference between the start of the note and the end.

At around 2:15 there is a fast double bass solo, and if a transducer can do texturing well, you can hear individual bass notes being plucked without smearing into the next note. Some poorer transducers will blend everything without individual definition.

Haha sorry we are committing the audiophile sin of using music to listen to audio gear, instead of using gear to listen to music LOLOL.

Anyway, so far the best texturing I have is in my Sony M9, but that is a BA bass IEM so generally they are faster in bass with less decay than a traditional DD. Another pure BA set, the EPZ 530 at $300ish USD, is quite textured in the bass.

Thanks! That was interesting. Fan2 with its bloom unsurprisingly failed in that Sting test. And couple more cheapies tanked. Luckily, the Senns HD 660S2 cans proved a 'texture' star; even though it's not a bass-head cannon, it does finesse rather prettily.

Pre Head-fi, my bass journey was pretty good as it was non-existent as there were no expectations/desire for low end from within and i was comfortably happy with a Titan S (where is the bass?!) in the past or even the Sivga Nightingale (why did the sub bass commit suicide by rolling off the cliff so drastically?) until recently.

Post head-fi, with all you fuss-pots around, now desire/demand for low-end has grown considerably. That's why the cheapie Castor which slams but in that 'unmmm' rather than 'Brrrm' (seriously, those cute terms, Melbournite?!) now finds lesser usage, though I still use it with a silly grin every now and then for some music. Aful p8 has good sub-bass, but mid-bass couldn't pay rent and vacated the real estate there. So that leaves me with no iem in my circulation that does bass as poetically as you detail. I hope Miroak 2 satisfies me more on that front. But then, who knows when it will arrive. I do use the 'dynamic bass' punch from Joe Bloggs dsp tweaks on hiby M300 and 'imagine' aural changes for now.

 

[o0genesis0o]

Thanks! That was interesting. Fan2 with its bloom unsurprisingly failed in that Sting test. And couple more cheapies tanked. Luckily, the Senns HD 660S2 cans proved a 'texture' star; even though it's not a bass-head cannon, it does finesse rather prettily.

Pre Head-fi, my bass journey was pretty good as it was non-existent as there were no expectations/desire for low end from within and i was comfortably happy with a Titan S (where is the bass?!) in the past or even the Sivga Nightingale (why did the sub bass commit suicide by rolling off the cliff so drastically?) until recently.

Post head-fi, with all you fuss-pots around, now desire/demand for low-end has grown considerably. That's why the cheapie Castor which slams but in that 'unmmm' rather than 'Brrrm' (seriously, those cute terms, Melbournite?!) now finds lesser usage, though I still use it with a silly grin every now and then for some music. Aful p8 has good sub-bass, but mid-bass couldn't pay rent and vacated the real estate there. So that leaves me with no iem in my circulation that does bass as poetically as you detail. I hope Miroak 2 satisfies me more on that front. But then, who knows when it will arrive. I do use the 'dynamic bass' punch from Joe Bloggs dsp tweaks on hiby M300 and 'imagine' aural changes for now.

It depends on what you want and what you consider "real" bass, really. Some like their bass to be THICC (otherwise, no one would buy FirAudio XE6). Some like bass to rattle their skull off (think of FATFreq).

I like things to be tack sharp but nuanced, so I want to hear snappy attack, like every kick, every beat is clearly defined, otherwise I would find the IEM too mushy to convey the sense of timing and rhythm (it does not get my toe tapping). On the other hand, it must be able to handle bass detail to deal with strings. Ironically, P8 can do both, so I frankly don't understand why people have problem with its bass, though I can see why people don't love it. I'm indifferent about this. Maybe 3/5 or 4/5. Personally, if a manufacturer can get a clean 15dB bass shelf, it would be ideal. Think of FATFreq Maestro Mini but a bit snappier.

Interestingly, someone told me that the kind of sound I like is more like what the microphone hears when recording. Live music are boomier and much less cleanly defined. But better "vibe".

 

[pradiptacr7]

It depends on what you want and what you consider "real" bass, really. Some like their bass to be THICC (otherwise, no one would buy FirAudio XE6). Some like bass to rattle their skull off (think of FATFreq).

I like things to be tack sharp but nuanced, so I want to hear snappy attack, like every kick, every beat is clearly defined, otherwise I would find the IEM too mushy to convey the sense of timing and rhythm (it does not get my toe tapping). On the other hand, it must be able to handle bass detail to deal with strings. Ironically, P8 can do both, so I frankly don't understand why people have problem with its bass, though I can see why people don't love it. I'm indifferent about this. Maybe 3/5 or 4/5. Personally, if a manufacturer can get a clean 15dB bass shelf, it would be ideal. Think of FATFreq Maestro Mini but a bit snappier.

Interestingly, someone told me that the kind of sound I like is more like what the microphone hears when recording. Live music are boomier and much less cleanly defined. But better "vibe".

I wouldn't mind if an IEM can't do sub-bass. It's physically incapable of. Even floor speakers needed to add a sub to get the lowest freqs. But I would love to get bass details. The attack and decay should be snappy as you said.

In my humble opinion, Spirit Torino Twin Pulse IEM shines in that region. The quality is superb for the price it offers. Also finding now, IE900 to be similar.

 

[Singaravelan]

It depends on what you want and what you consider "real" bass, really. Some like their bass to be THICC (otherwise, no one would buy FirAudio XE6). Some like bass to rattle their skull off (think of FATFreq).

I like things to be tack sharp but nuanced, so I want to hear snappy attack, like every kick, every beat is clearly defined, otherwise I would find the IEM too mushy to convey the sense of timing and rhythm (it does not get my toe tapping). On the other hand, it must be able to handle bass detail to deal with strings. Ironically, P8 can do both, so I frankly don't understand why people have problem with its bass, though I can see why people don't love it. I'm indifferent about this. Maybe 3/5 or 4/5. Personally, if a manufacturer can get a clean 15dB bass shelf, it would be ideal. Think of FATFreq Maestro Mini but a bit snappier.

Interestingly, someone told me that the kind of sound I like is more like what the microphone hears when recording. Live music are boomier and much less cleanly defined. But better "vibe".

Someone like me with my bass-background explained as above, I am pretty happy with P8 in general. But with funeral doom metal with its slow cooking 'heavy' potboiler soundscape that rumbles on and on - (it's not that rapid metal thingy), like a slow-cooked pork/mutton curry rather than dry tooth-pickeable pork/mutton roast if you will, i don't reach out for the p8s. It needs that mid-bass warmth and 'heaviness' that P8 doesn't provide as much. It's much cleaner, sharper. It's much better when combined with the fullness of FC-6 dongle. It just helps to have different signatures/rendtions to the bass with a few different iems, I guess to suit the different moods. I still don't think i would be entirely happy with a bass-canon as it hasn't been my preferred sound signature in the past, but then tastes they are changing with the times. Who knows, now.

 

[Nosibilance]

What do you mean by “technicalities”? Is it like detail retrieval? Perhaps I was so disappointed by the staging in normal mode that I didn’t pay closer attention to the KA17.

I have heard the lack of detail only once in my tests so far with the K7 (desktop). There was one track that I can easily hear the subtle reed sound of saxophone via the Crimson with my DX300 and Aful, but when I listened to the same track on K7, I just couldn’t hear it regardless of volume, like everything is mushed together just a bit. I was so paranoid that I had to check whether I was listening to the same FLAC

I agree that KA17 although powerful did not click with me due to lack of musicality and rough edges. For ESS dongle my go to is still T71.

 

[BS5711]

Speaking of bass.

A track called “Sonic Colonic” (there’s a clue in the name ) by Pitch Black is a good test of bass in a different way.

It has very fast bass which is individual tones but at what must be something like 300 bpm. A sluggish poor bass performer makes this sound more like a monotone drone than a fast cyclical rumble.

Combine that with energetic midrange and treble notes make it a busy track. It isn’t going to be everyone’s taste !

“Harmonia” is another interesting track if anyone cares to listen, easily mistaken for monotonous droning bass but actually rather nuanced.

Listening with IE600 now and the little 7mm DD’s do a good job.

In fact their whole “Rude Mechanicals” is an interesting album for fans of electronic, dub, ambient music, I guess it is a bit of a mash up, best played loud.