[Redcarmoose]

Not the Quintet!

So very true.

EPZ Q5 gets a 3 out of 5 score.
https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/epz-q5.26665/reviews#review-33221

 

[Surf Monkey]

Not the Quintet!

Agree. Quintet is an exception. It has good treble extension and detail.

 

[Redcarmoose]

 

[Rolu]

So very true.

EPZ Q5 gets a 3 out of 5 score.
https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/epz-q5.26665/reviews#review-33221

What a blatant design copy of the Advar!

 

[Redcarmoose]

What a blatant design copy of the Advar!

The copycatness continues on to cheapen the whole party one notch lower than if they would have been original.

 

[o0genesis0o]

Pilgram.

Yours?

It looks like Nightjars Singularity. People kept saying this might be “baby anni” for so long that I expected it to have clear shells

 

[Okcerg]

I posted this in the ISN Neo 3 thread, but I thought it might get some response here, too. Apologies if double-dipping isn't cool:

OK, Penon/ISN aficionados: I need some advice. I'm truly torn between the Penon Fan 2 and the ISN Neo 3. I have Penon coupons for both, so the price difference is only $20-30. Negligible.

I put musicality, tone and timbre above the last bit of technical detail and imaging. I like a warm-neutral sound. I don't need a warm blanket of constant sub-bass, but I like to feel mid-bass hits. The bass should be prominent when called upon by the track. I like clear, present mids but can't stand the upper-mids vocal shout of the Harman curve. Treble can be detailed but a bit of top-end roll-off is fine, almost needed. I loathe sibilance or cold treble in every way.

My preferred styles of music are rock, classic rock, alternative rock, alt-country, Americana, bluegrass, with a smidge of hip-hop, hard bop jazz and progressive house EDM. Nearly all of my listening will be done at desktop through a JDS Labs Atom+ stack.

Which of these two apparently great IEMs would work best for me, the Fan 2 or Neo 3?

Thanks!

I love both. But from your description of warm sound with hitting midbass I think Fan2 would suit you best.
Great for Americana, singer/songwriter, but also rock and can do hip hip but you won't get that deep sub bass rumble. (I don't care for sub bass, it hurts my ears.)
Fit can be an issue though. You need to get a deep fit and go down in tip size. I use Large tips on all my iems, except for Fan2, as you can see from the pic, where I use the smallest.
It might be a honeymoon phase, but I'm currently listening more to Neo3. It sings from my OTL tube amp Little Dot Mk3.

But, from your description you can't go wrong with Fan2 soundwise. Fit I guess you have to try to know.

 

[Redcarmoose]

Another EPZ review, this time the G10.

https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/epz-g10.26891/reviews#review-33222

 

[DynamicEars]

Just came up with this idea below about explaining graphs' significance and I'm deeply intrigued to hear if you guys (everyone, not just the two I'm quoting) agree with my best-up-to-date example of trying to explain graphs' significance.

Graphs are like lines of notes. Sure, you can learn to read those notes and hence figure out the melodical progression of the song. However, is that where the song's complexity ends? Is that the only thing that forms the song that's hiding behind these notes? Certainly not. Which instruments are playing? Vocals too? Male or female? How loud is each instrument playing? Where is it positioned? How is it captured in the recording? What sort of post-production has been done? List goes on. Very similar to graphs and their correspondence to the final produced sound of the IEMs, no?
Then, of course, to spice things up further and add another line of subjectivity, our perceived impression of the produced sound is a whole other subject we're still unable to tackle methodologically.


And some necessary Simgot hate from one certain person.


True. That could be the other way in. Multiple ways to approach this hobby, no right and wrong.

What I actually meant to say was first year is the most expensive due to high probability of plenty of sets being a shot in the dark and a miss. Figuring out your preferences is not cheap unless you have access to demo units.

Arguably, once you know what you like and really want to achieve, nothing is expensive, it just takes longer to save up for some sets than others.

Very well said! There are so many factors and nuances that make up a song. The graph can't give all that information.

I'm sorry but that would be very different analogy. The frequency response graph is very different from graph that record track of the song. The coupler works as "microphone" that capture the response from the IEM, with sine sweeps.
sine sweeps 20hz-20,000hz every frequencies, so the software (in this case REW) will output a sine sweep from 20hz until 20,000hz and then capture "how big the bass at 20hz on blessing 2 for example, and how big the bass on 20hz with the same sine sweep with blessing 3 for example, move to 21hz, 22hz, 23hz until 20,000hz
So here you can see how big the sub bass on 35hz in blessing 2, compared with sub bass of another IEM on the same 35hz, or any other frequencies.
This is how the FR graphs process works. It's not like capture the graph from a song.
the graph from a music track will be like this instead :

This contains all vocals, percussions, other instruments but we cant actually "hear" from see this graph, meanwhile totally different from frequency response graph

graph by Mr Sally Super Review

This is the example of Frequency graph, its clearly showing from neutral point (350hz-800hz), the sub bass on 30hz is up by +10db increment.
Then if you know what instrument or what sound sit there, you will be able to imagine, can't be piano or cymbals there right? Sound of the contra bass are there, or low strum bass guitar, or extension of kick drum if deep enough.

Move up to mid bass, around 100hz, these area, where the first kick drum hit the transient of the kick drum, the texture of the bass, the upper notes of bass guitar, the toms of the drum are heard here. This quintet is tuned well and +5db from neutral point (350hz-800hz) is ideal for me, it provides enough warmness and texture, while not bleeding to the mids

Now to high mids around 2-4khz, the pinna gain, these are emphasize of female vocals, too high on this 2-4khz area, will lead to shouty vocals. Too low will result to recessed female vocals. Together with all instruments down there, the piano, the guitars, saxophone, trumpet on those frequencies

Mid trebles on 8khz, where the grapher usually put the resonance peak here to have standardize FR, sometimes can shown higher than it should because of the resonance peak, but sometimes just as accurate, this 8khz are trails of hihats, cymbals and air, and can perceived as "low air" and can be boosted to have wider soundstage perception

upper trebles / extension past 10khz, is where technicalities sit, on around 12-13khz thats why lot of TOTL sets are having this region bigger than neutral point (see 350hz-800hz level) while 15khz are more airy presentation.

That just a glimpse of "basic" understanding to read the graph, once you know how to read the graph, it can be very useful , to save your wallet mostly

More advanced reading can be put this example:
how "thin or thick mids are produced?" its about the balance between lower mids (300-500hz) and high mids (2-4khz) region, the further they are apart the thinner the mids, the closer they are, the thicker the mids. So big bass doesn't guarantee you have thick mids, for example " Moondrop Variations.

safe trebles but sounded "tizzy" = balance between lower trebles on 6khz and the trails of its transient that lies on 8khz

and there are also "mandatory dips" like on 7khz for examples, to avoid sibilances because of the "too much trebles at the same time" and as opposite there are little peaks, that can be heard as "transient attack" that perceived as crispy or sharp note attack that have correlation with "resolution"


----------------

That why I said this all like easy to learn, hard to master thingy, and you can only get better by having the measurement rig and do measuring again and again, comparing the result with your ears again and again and again, like years, not months, not days
The other way to help is with playing with EQ, yes I like to borrow @o0genesis0o words graphs is like EQ, its similar the FR graph is reflect how manufacturer permanently EQed their IEMs, it's how they tuned the IEM. with EQing we can know what sound sit on certain frequencies, maybe like try to EQ 4khz , the presence region by +5db, oh the IEM now sounded high resolution suddenly, crispy guitar notes with sharp attack. put down that and EQ other frequency, maybe 50hz, ow the punch of the bass become so impactful but without bleed the mids, and any other frequencies.

I learned the hard way really. I spent more than $10,000 for audio hobbies, fight sessions with wife, time, etc and guess what?
$100 for the measurement rig
more than $9,900 for hit and miss IEMs (well also count for DAPs, dongles, eartips, etc)
The graph reading can save you thousand bucks, without blind buying

So again I would say the graphs isn't 100% accurate, but quite helpful like give you 70% of how the tonality like, like a said "synopsis" of the movie before you decide to buy the ticket. but lot things can't captured by this rig, like bass smears, how dampened is the sound, the cross over below the highest FR (FR only capture the highest sine sweeps sound), etc.



For Example if I have Quartet, and I want to buy Quintet. aside from friend's recommendation you can compare it directly with your current IEM as cue
They have roughly similar sub bass, but at 100hz, the Quartet is more bass bleed, for me it's a good thing but for someone who prefer bigger mid bass than quartet, they can save the money because the quintet will be lower in midbass

the Quintet have forwarded high mids at 2-4khz than Quartet, if that your thing, you can go ahead or you're looking for more trebles, see 6khz until 15khz, definitely more trebles and details and extension.

This is just a simple example to make it as basic comparison, but once you at some point you can really know roughly how the sound of the IEM just by looking at the graph, again the rough tonality around 70% aside from the things that cant be capture by the rig like I said above.

The more I study graphs and the more I study iems I feel that they just tell a story of the iem. A lot of people crap on the 711 coupler but I think it gives great data and is a valuable tool to the hobby.

Yes correct, definitely agree.

Blame the readers (and cult of scientific materialism, but that’s a story for another time), not the tool itself, I say. Being able to see the tonal balance is such a useful tool to test and tune IEM (for noobs like myself, it means EQ)

exactly

Not the Quintet!

So very true.

EPZ Q5 gets a 3 out of 5 score.
https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/epz-q5.26665/reviews#review-33221

Agree. Quintet is an exception. It has good treble extension and detail.

These are real case now :


see 10-15khz, definitely Quintet have the extension of the trebles while the rest aren't (rolled off). So when I buy Orchestra lite and expect good treble extension, it could be wrong move, I can save money and buy Quintet instead.

 

[Redcarmoose]

After I hit you, you can choose to be damaged either BLACK or BLUE..............you decide.

https://www.linsoul.com/products/kiwi-ears-x-crinacle-singolo
Kiwi Ears x Crinacle: Singolo


$79.00 USD

 

[o0genesis0o]

I'm sorry but that would be very different analogy. The frequency response graph is very different from graph that record track of the song. The coupler works as "microphone" that capture the response from the IEM, with sine sweeps.
sine sweeps 20hz-20,000hz every frequencies, so the software (in this case REW) will output a sine sweep from 20hz until 20,000hz and then capture "how big the bass at 20hz on blessing 2 for example, and how big the bass on 20hz with the same sine sweep with blessing 3 for example, move to 21hz, 22hz, 23hz until 20,000hz
So here you can see how big the sub bass on 35hz in blessing 2, compared with sub bass of another IEM on the same 35hz, or any other frequencies.
This is how the FR graphs process works. It's not like capture the graph from a song.
the graph from a music track will be like this instead :


This contains all vocals, percussions, other instruments but we cant actually "hear" from see this graph, meanwhile totally different from frequency response graph

graph by Mr Sally Super Review

This is the example of Frequency graph, its clearly showing from neutral point (350hz-800hz), the sub bass on 30hz is up by +10db increment.
Then if you know what instrument or what sound sit there, you will be able to imagine, can't be piano or cymbals there right? Sound of the contra bass are there, or low strum bass guitar, or extension of kick drum if deep enough.

Move up to mid bass, around 100hz, these area, where the first kick drum hit the transient of the kick drum, the texture of the bass, the upper notes of bass guitar, the toms of the drum are heard here. This quintet is tuned well and +5db from neutral point (350hz-800hz) is ideal for me, it provides enough warmness and texture, while not bleeding to the mids

Now to high mids around 2-4khz, the pinna gain, these are emphasize of female vocals, too high on this 2-4khz area, will lead to shouty vocals. Too low will result to recessed female vocals. Together with all instruments down there, the piano, the guitars, saxophone, trumpet on those frequencies

Mid trebles on 8khz, where the grapher usually put the resonance peak here to have standardize FR, sometimes can shown higher than it should because of the resonance peak, but sometimes just as accurate, this 8khz are trails of hihats, cymbals and air, and can perceived as "low air" and can be boosted to have wider soundstage perception

upper trebles / extension past 10khz, is where technicalities sit, on around 12-13khz thats why lot of TOTL sets are having this region bigger than neutral point (see 350hz-800hz level) while 15khz are more airy presentation.

That just a glimpse of "basic" understanding to read the graph, once you know how to read the graph, it can be very useful , to save your wallet mostly

More advanced reading can be put this example:
how "thin or thick mids are produced?" its about the balance between lower mids (300-500hz) and high mids (2-4khz) region, the further they are apart the thinner the mids, the closer they are, the thicker the mids. So big bass doesn't guarantee you have thick mids, for example " Moondrop Variations.

safe trebles but sounded "tizzy" = balance between lower trebles on 6khz and the trails of its transient that lies on 8khz

and there are also "mandatory dips" like on 7khz for examples, to avoid sibilances because of the "too much trebles at the same time" and as opposite there are little peaks, that can be heard as "transient attack" that perceived as crispy or sharp note attack that have correlation with "resolution"


----------------

That why I said this all like easy to learn, hard to master thingy, and you can only get better by having the measurement rig and do measuring again and again, comparing the result with your ears again and again and again, like years, not months, not days
The other way to help is with playing with EQ, yes I like to borrow @o0genesis0o words graphs is like EQ, its similar the FR graph is reflect how manufacturer permanently EQed their IEMs, it's how they tuned the IEM. with EQing we can know what sound sit on certain frequencies, maybe like try to EQ 4khz , the presence region by +5db, oh the IEM now sounded high resolution suddenly, crispy guitar notes with sharp attack. put down that and EQ other frequency, maybe 50hz, ow the punch of the bass become so impactful but without bleed the mids, and any other frequencies.

I learned the hard way really. I spent more than $10,000 for audio hobbies, fight sessions with wife, time, etc and guess what?
$100 for the measurement rig
more than $9,900 for hit and miss IEMs (well also count for DAPs, dongles, eartips, etc)
The graph reading can save you thousand bucks, without blind buying

So again I would say the graphs isn't 100% accurate, but quite helpful like give you 70% of how the tonality like, like a said "synopsis" of the movie before you decide to buy the ticket. but lot things can't captured by this rig, like bass smears, how dampened is the sound, the cross over below the highest FR (FR only capture the highest sine sweeps sound), etc.



For Example if I have Quartet, and I want to buy Quintet. aside from friend's recommendation you can compare it directly with your current IEM as cue
They have roughly similar sub bass, but at 100hz, the Quartet is more bass bleed, for me it's a good thing but for someone who prefer bigger mid bass than quartet, they can save the money because the quintet will be lower in midbass

the Quintet have forwarded high mids at 2-4khz than Quartet, if that your thing, you can go ahead or you're looking for more trebles, see 6khz until 15khz, definitely more trebles and details and extension.

This is just a simple example to make it as basic comparison, but once you at some point you can really know roughly how the sound of the IEM just by looking at the graph, again the rough tonality around 70% aside from the things that cant be capture by the rig like I said above.



Yes correct, definitely agree.


exactly







These are real case now :


see 10-15khz, definitely Quintet have the extension of the trebles while the rest aren't (rolled off). So when I buy Orchestra lite and expect good treble extension, it could be wrong move, I can save money and buy Quintet instead.

Just two add two things:

• This one surprises me: the high frequencies are literally the sound “between notes”. Like, the 1000Hz is literally the “ripples” between 100Hz. It’s trivial and straightforward for most people, it just dawned on my when I watched an explanation of how a DD makes all frequencies at once.
• It’s not just how high or how low each part of the frequency response is, but also how they balance against each other. Earfonia on ASR did a brilliant job at quantifying his preference into deltas between different dips and peaks.

In general, if there is less variations between highest and lowest point on the FR, one can expect a mellow and more “coherent” sounding IEM. When one sees 10-12dB variations, that’s when things get exciting (and can go downhill quickly). When one sees 15dB+ variations, it’s a niche IEM (e.g., bass monsters from FatFreq, deadly “female poison” IEMs)

 

[DynamicEars]

Just two add two things:

• This one surprises me: the high frequencies are literally the sound “between notes”. Like, the 1000Hz is literally the “ripples” between 100Hz. It’s trivial and straightforward for most people, it just dawned on my when I watched an explanation of how a DD makes all frequencies at once.
• It’s not just how high or how low each part of the frequency response is, but also how they balance against each other. Earfonia on ASR did a brilliant job at quantifying his preference into deltas between different dips and peaks.

In general, if there is less variations between highest and lowest point on the FR, one can expect a mellow and more “coherent” sounding IEM. When one sees 10-12dB variations, that’s when things get exciting (and can go downhill quickly). When one sees 15dB+ variations, it’s a niche IEM (e.g., bass monsters from FatFreq, deadly “female poison” IEMs)

Correct. Thanks!
It actually new to me that DDs producing ripples to make 1000hz from 10x 100hz. Interesting.. i guess BA just straight produce the exact frequencies then?

 

[baskingshark]

I'm sorry but that would be very different analogy. The frequency response graph is very different from graph that record track of the song. The coupler works as "microphone" that capture the response from the IEM, with sine sweeps.
sine sweeps 20hz-20,000hz every frequencies, so the software (in this case REW) will output a sine sweep from 20hz until 20,000hz and then capture "how big the bass at 20hz on blessing 2 for example, and how big the bass on 20hz with the same sine sweep with blessing 3 for example, move to 21hz, 22hz, 23hz until 20,000hz
So here you can see how big the sub bass on 35hz in blessing 2, compared with sub bass of another IEM on the same 35hz, or any other frequencies.
This is how the FR graphs process works. It's not like capture the graph from a song.
the graph from a music track will be like this instead :


This contains all vocals, percussions, other instruments but we cant actually "hear" from see this graph, meanwhile totally different from frequency response graph

graph by Mr Sally Super Review

This is the example of Frequency graph, its clearly showing from neutral point (350hz-800hz), the sub bass on 30hz is up by +10db increment.
Then if you know what instrument or what sound sit there, you will be able to imagine, can't be piano or cymbals there right? Sound of the contra bass are there, or low strum bass guitar, or extension of kick drum if deep enough.

Move up to mid bass, around 100hz, these area, where the first kick drum hit the transient of the kick drum, the texture of the bass, the upper notes of bass guitar, the toms of the drum are heard here. This quintet is tuned well and +5db from neutral point (350hz-800hz) is ideal for me, it provides enough warmness and texture, while not bleeding to the mids

Now to high mids around 2-4khz, the pinna gain, these are emphasize of female vocals, too high on this 2-4khz area, will lead to shouty vocals. Too low will result to recessed female vocals. Together with all instruments down there, the piano, the guitars, saxophone, trumpet on those frequencies

Mid trebles on 8khz, where the grapher usually put the resonance peak here to have standardize FR, sometimes can shown higher than it should because of the resonance peak, but sometimes just as accurate, this 8khz are trails of hihats, cymbals and air, and can perceived as "low air" and can be boosted to have wider soundstage perception

upper trebles / extension past 10khz, is where technicalities sit, on around 12-13khz thats why lot of TOTL sets are having this region bigger than neutral point (see 350hz-800hz level) while 15khz are more airy presentation.

That just a glimpse of "basic" understanding to read the graph, once you know how to read the graph, it can be very useful , to save your wallet mostly

More advanced reading can be put this example:
how "thin or thick mids are produced?" its about the balance between lower mids (300-500hz) and high mids (2-4khz) region, the further they are apart the thinner the mids, the closer they are, the thicker the mids. So big bass doesn't guarantee you have thick mids, for example " Moondrop Variations.

safe trebles but sounded "tizzy" = balance between lower trebles on 6khz and the trails of its transient that lies on 8khz

and there are also "mandatory dips" like on 7khz for examples, to avoid sibilances because of the "too much trebles at the same time" and as opposite there are little peaks, that can be heard as "transient attack" that perceived as crispy or sharp note attack that have correlation with "resolution"


----------------

That why I said this all like easy to learn, hard to master thingy, and you can only get better by having the measurement rig and do measuring again and again, comparing the result with your ears again and again and again, like years, not months, not days
The other way to help is with playing with EQ, yes I like to borrow @o0genesis0o words graphs is like EQ, its similar the FR graph is reflect how manufacturer permanently EQed their IEMs, it's how they tuned the IEM. with EQing we can know what sound sit on certain frequencies, maybe like try to EQ 4khz , the presence region by +5db, oh the IEM now sounded high resolution suddenly, crispy guitar notes with sharp attack. put down that and EQ other frequency, maybe 50hz, ow the punch of the bass become so impactful but without bleed the mids, and any other frequencies.

I learned the hard way really. I spent more than $10,000 for audio hobbies, fight sessions with wife, time, etc and guess what?
$100 for the measurement rig
more than $9,900 for hit and miss IEMs (well also count for DAPs, dongles, eartips, etc)
The graph reading can save you thousand bucks, without blind buying

So again I would say the graphs isn't 100% accurate, but quite helpful like give you 70% of how the tonality like, like a said "synopsis" of the movie before you decide to buy the ticket. but lot things can't captured by this rig, like bass smears, how dampened is the sound, the cross over below the highest FR (FR only capture the highest sine sweeps sound), etc.



For Example if I have Quartet, and I want to buy Quintet. aside from friend's recommendation you can compare it directly with your current IEM as cue
They have roughly similar sub bass, but at 100hz, the Quartet is more bass bleed, for me it's a good thing but for someone who prefer bigger mid bass than quartet, they can save the money because the quintet will be lower in midbass

the Quintet have forwarded high mids at 2-4khz than Quartet, if that your thing, you can go ahead or you're looking for more trebles, see 6khz until 15khz, definitely more trebles and details and extension.

This is just a simple example to make it as basic comparison, but once you at some point you can really know roughly how the sound of the IEM just by looking at the graph, again the rough tonality around 70% aside from the things that cant be capture by the rig like I said above.



Yes correct, definitely agree.


exactly







These are real case now :


see 10-15khz, definitely Quintet have the extension of the trebles while the rest aren't (rolled off). So when I buy Orchestra lite and expect good treble extension, it could be wrong move, I can save money and buy Quintet instead.

Excellent points on graphs, and agree with most of what has been said. However, this hobby has both objective and subjective components.


The objective portion being measurements, specs and graphs. Graphs are useful as a gatekeeper for tonality, to see if someone will like or dislike an IEM instead of blind purchasing. For example, a basshead sees a massive bass roll-off on the graph will probably skip this IEM, and vice versa.

Graphs don't tell the full story of course, for example we can't 100% tell about technicalities (eg imaging, transients, instrument separation) or timbral accuracy (for example BA bass may have less decay than DD bass even if the graphs are alike).



But there's still a large subjective portion that in practice, translates to how the same graphed IEM may sound differently amongst individuals. These are the subjective elements:

1) Hearing Health
Generally the treble frequencies are first to be lost with older age (presbycusis > 50 years old).

I work in the medical line and sign off on audiometry tests daily - please see the graph above on the general hearing range for each age band. It is a physiological phenomenon to lose the higher frequencies as one gets older. A 17 year old is gonna hear treble very differently from a 70 year old. So sometimes we disagree on forums, with someone saying this IEM is smooth as silk, another saying it is a banshee screaming mess. Both may not be wrong actually.

To complicate matters, some hobbyists suffer from noise induced hearing loss (from occupational or leisure induced), and they lose the 3/4/6 kHz areas first, as the hair cells that transmit these frequencies are found nearer to the outer ear, and are the first to die with prolonged loud noise. So these regions generally cover the upper mids and lower treble, which may explain why some folk think something is shouty in upper mids, but someone else disagrees.



2) Fletcher Munson curve - aka volume played at
https://ehomerecordingstudio.com/fletcher-munson-curve/

Music is perceived to be more V shaped (ie boosted treble and boosted bass) at louder volumes. The treble and bass is less pronounced at lower volumes.

Consumers and reviewers hardly mention the volume they use their gear at, so this may be a huge area that affects how we perceive treble and bass.

So the graphs and tonality actually change with different volume levels used.



3) Sources
Some sources are not neutral, and are brighter or warmer, which can influence tonal balance, even on the same transducer with the same graph.



4) Eartips/Foams/Headpads
Like sources, some tips/foams/headpads boost or tame treble, even on the same graph (and within the same individual too).

If we take the example of the Moondrop Stellaris. The green graph is with the stock Softear Ultra Clear silicone tips - this is the baseline frequency response.

A wide bore eartip like the Tenmark Whirlwind gives the most treble boost - red graph.

The Final E Black tips (narrow-bore) tames the treble the most - black graph.

Ear anatomy influences ear tip sonics too, which also brings us to the next point.



5) Ear anatomy
Different ear anatomy may influence sound at the upper mids (pinna gain). Even with the same eartips and same graph.

There's an interesting post from Precog about this if you are interested: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/precogs-iem-reviews-impressions.937468/page-94#post-16524009




So in summary, this audio hobby is both subjective and objective. Both components have their place in this hobby, and for sure graphs are very useful to have a taster for tonality (but graphs don't tell the full story at the same time). Based on the subjective components above, how someone hears the same transducer may be a total 180 degrees different from another person, even on the same graph.

Maybe a learning point from this, is that we should respect others' impressions of audio gear, there is really no outright right or wrong. It would also be helpful if we could follow a reviewer or fellow hobbyist who you know shares the same hearing impressions as you do.

 

[Redcarmoose]

TANSIO MIRAI Feat 2BA + 2DD Hybrid 2Pin 0.78mm HiFi Audiophile In-ear Earphone IEMs


Specification
Brand:TANSIO MIRAI
Model:Feat
Driver:2 Balanced armature + 2 Dynamic driver
2 x 8mm dynamic driver hollow coaxial carbon element diaphragm for low-frequency
2 x Knowles balanced armature for mid & high frequency
Impedance ：10 ohm
Sensitivity： 104dB
Frequency response range ： 10 ~ 20kHz.

Package
Earphone
6 pairs of Ear-tips
Earphone case

Warranty
18 months warranty

$239.00 USD
https://penonaudio.com/TANSIO-MIRAI-FEAT

 

[o0genesis0o]

Interesting.. i guess BA just straight produce the exact frequencies then?

Nah, all frequencies are combined into just one signal, and the driver wiggles according to the combined signal. In order to produce 20kHz, it needs to be able to wiggle at 20kHz. That’s why folks like oratory1990 gets really angry when people ask them about “driver speed” (and consider them dumbass for asking such question). If the driver can make some sound at 20kHz, it is “fast enough” to produce 20Hz or anything under 20kHz

I believe that the subjective “fast” or “slowness” of the driver is a real phenomenon, but we might be attempting to find objective explanation for that at the wrong place.