[Faye Tsang]

Just going to leave this graph here.
And my shame in actually buying one.

Yes thats +18db of pina gain.

OMG what are you thinking KZ wrong direction.

Well it will make for a interesting review.

The graph generated from testing the influencer equipment shows disparities from the actual performance. The dip you're focusing on is actually the crossover point between the dynamic driver and the planar driver, so measurements at that point might not be compatible with influencer equipment. Within the 1.5K range, these influencer devices exhibit a slight resonance peak, which is also attributed to compatibility issues with the testing equipment. Have a nice day!

 

[r31ya]

The graph generated from testing the influencer equipment shows disparities from the actual performance. The dip you're focusing on is actually the crossover point between the dynamic driver and the planar driver, so measurements at that point might not be compatible with influencer equipment. Within the 1.5K range, these influencer devices exhibit a slight resonance peak, which is also attributed to compatibility issues with the testing equipment. Have a nice day!

i think PW tried with 18 ohm impedance and getting closer to your official graph. Similar issue with AS16 Pro.

While graph is just half the story, and we need more third party graph to compare, so far the "impression" are pretty positive,
however this official vs third party measurement difference have been rather repeated issue.
(and rather new for KZ, old KZ graph scaling might be wonky but rather accurate)
Its measured on "hobby" device, sure. but i don't think some other company have this repeated graph issue that somehow can be fixed with impedance adapter...

regarding the crossover dip, i was wondering whether the planar have "late" start in the crossover setting hence the dip. possibly to prevent overlapping
Some impression noted that it have rather thinner note weight (against the planar only PR3) which seems going to be a big no for Tonedeafmonk preferred soundsig, judging on how he score CastorHarman.
but need to wait for actual review of to know whether the tuning design works (and what soundsig preference it may satisfy)

 

[Barndoor]

I'm a little confused.
Is the difference caused by "influencer equipment" referring to the measuring device or the source device?

 

[superuser1]

influencer equipment.

How euphemistic

 

[r31ya]

I'm a little confused.
Is the difference caused by "influencer equipment" referring to the measuring device or the source device?

the to call the expert here, this is outside my wheelhouse.

but as far as i know, tools calibration and possibly measurement procedure method.
and from the lack of calibration and similar measurement procedure (what coupler/measurement tools used, eartip used, how deep, and such), unit variance exist.
apparently especially on treble measurement (high and super high).
Ianfann used to preface his reading of FR graph with "ignore 8K+ as my device couldn't measure that section accurately)

 

[Barndoor]

I'm familiar with the 8KHZ peak issue.
So if the issue is procedure then wouldn't we be having this discussion about all iems?

 

[FreeWheelinAudioLuv2]

Faye has spoken! You have been corrected, influencer! Don't ever try and speak against her again! LOL

This is why I ignore graphs and I trust the trusted buyer's ears and my own ears.

Btw, Faye, the CCA Trio are pretty terrific!! The Aures and OD200 are better. Keep trying! You're making strides.

 

[Redcarmoose]

Here I test the ifi GO bar against the competition..............
https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/ifi-go-bar.25909/reviews#review-33130

 

[NiteRiter]

The graph generated from testing the influencer equipment shows disparities from the actual performance. The dip you're focusing on is actually the crossover point between the dynamic driver and the planar driver, so measurements at that point might not be compatible with influencer equipment. Within the 1.5K range, these influencer devices exhibit a slight resonance peak, which is also attributed to compatibility issues with the testing equipment. Have a nice day!

The message has been made clear: don't trust independent reviewers or their equipment . You can only trust KZ on their official sponsor page.

 

[o0genesis0o]

the to call the expert here, this is outside my wheelhouse.

but as far as i know, tools calibration and possibly measurement procedure method.
and from the lack of calibration and similar measurement procedure (what coupler/measurement tools used, eartip used, how deep, and such), unit variance exist.
apparently especially on treble measurement (high and super high).
Ianfann used to preface his reading of FR graph with "ignore 8K+ as my device couldn't measure that section accurately)

That 8k problem is just the nature of these coupler. If you have the $$$$$$ to get the new ones like headphones.com, you can see everything up to 20kHz accurately.

Afaik, ears do not differ that much. Can’t quite recall the title of the paper, but I remembered they experimented with people wearing artificial outer ears.

Edit: it’s very rare to see a difference like the one between PW graph and KZ graph.

 

[r31ya]

That 8k problem is just the nature of these coupler. If you have the $$$$$$ to get the new ones like headphones.com, you can see everything up to 20kHz accurately.

Afaik, ears do not differ that much. Can’t quite recall the title of the paper, but I remembered they experimented with people wearing artificial outer ears.

Edit: it’s very rare to see a difference like the one between PW graph and KZ graph.

using that BK something that crin owned and used by Moondrop for their official graph.

yeah, as i mention, we have recent issue with the AS16Pro and KZ planars.
AS16Pro is a bit unique as apparently if you ran it through powerful source like TriTK2 it will match KZ official graph without need of Impedance adapter.
so possibly its new source issue in KZ side.
but again, its outside my wheelhouse, give it a day and the expert will chime in.

 

[baskingshark]

This brands move so fast. @baskingshark is right. I haven’t even recorded the video of Trio and another pokemon has been released

In the big scheme of things, 80% of new CHIFI weekly releases are merely sidegrades. They ain't downright crap (mostly) but maybe score 3 - 3.5/5? But the thing is, even being average to above average is a death sentence, as this industry is so competitive that next week a new shiny toy comes out. Then the previous IEM is forgotten and is just a footnote on forums.

So how to fight against the FOMO?
1) Wait for a few weeks to see if the IEM in question is still talked about. Most fall by the way side after 2 - 3 weeks.
- if something is still talked about in 3 months, that is a legit set.
- if something is still talked about in 3 years, that is a legend - eg IKKO OH10, BLON BL-03, Tanchjim Oxygen etc
- patience, cause a "PRO" version of the IEM pokemon always comes out a few weeks later! Waiting also makes the price drop from the original launch price!


2) Wait for graphs
- Yes graphs don't tell the full story, but they are generally a decent gauge of tonality, so consumers can roughly tell if that is something they may like or dislike
- Don't trust store provided graphs, which are usually stretched to hide peaks and troughs (LOL the manufacturers frequently like to claim that their store graphs are the most legit of legit graphs, but we know haha).
- Case in point #1: KZ Symphony (maybe the symPHONY part should be emphasized haha):
Independent graph (I trust Paul Wasabii's methodology):

Store graph:

- case in point #2: Kinera Freya
Independent graph:

Store provided graph:

Anyways, once folk like @o0genesis0o and @ToneDeafMonk get their Symphony, I am sure they can provide independent graphs, that most likely will tally with Paul's graph rather than the shop one haha.


On another point about weekly IEM spam releases. It can't be that every release each week is 5/5 and the "best IEM under $100" or something like that? Then next week another "best $100 IEM" comes out again? How many times can the wolf be cried for?

 

[Kenyon]

That 8k problem is just the nature of these coupler. If you have the $$$$$$ to get the new ones like headphones.com, you can see everything up to 20kHz accurately.

Sadly even the new simulators/couplers from Gras & B&K have artificial resonances or areas of leakage and both allow for error deviations (that at the extremes of a band would appear as 2 completely different SQ signatures) - Sean Olive's own B&K has reports of c.3db just between L&R. To actually achieve 'accuracy up to 20khz' for the B&K it would involve having standards to judge this accuracy against which currently do not exist for that system. Without these it is just a theoretical fantasy - compounded by additional problems in actually carrying out the measurements - ie past 10khz positional/directional variations of the IEM matter more and the practical issue with inconsistent seating & seal issues presented on the B&K make this area just as likely to not be accurate.

Contrary to what headphones.com keep stating as fact - there is no evidence outside of a small flawed study involving only acoustic impedence (which is stated as improved in the B&K) to prefer one system over another. Perhaps there will be in the near future but currently to suggest one as clearly more accurate or a paradigm shift in the industry is misleading and hard to see as anything more than business marketing for an expensive tool which will create a tier system of measurement authority within reviews as the B&K 5128 costs over $50k. Though I do applaud their efforts to experiment with the 5128 and try to derive standards - looking forward to their findings and routing for them to obtain conclusive results - doing it in this manner (without results behind the bold statements) opens things up for personal bias, community cliques and criticism from people who are stricter on applications of the scientific method.

 

[o0genesis0o]

Anyways, once folk like @o0genesis0o and @ToneDeafMonk get their Symphony, I am sure they can provide independent graphs, that most likely will tally with Paul's graph rather than the shop one haha

I’m out. It’s upto @ToneDeafMonk now

Happy with the Trio though. It might be a rare unicorn. Good for CCA/KZ.

Btw, even though the scale of the Kinera graph is different and the graph is overly smoothened, the shape of the graph is mostly the same. That’s not the case with the Symphony. There is always a chance that Paul’s unit is a lemon.

Anyhow, my default recommendation for ultra-budget bracket is still the Trio (the same batch, same revision) with a cheap 4.4 cable from NiceHck and a case. Maybe some new ear tips as well. That all one “needs”.

What one “wants” is different, and I would go for the Pula PA02 or the Silvio thing TDM has been talking about, or P8 (I can feel TDM cringing), and then jump directly to the likes of Monarch III and up. If one doesn’t think all DAC amp sound the same, one should grab a big ass DAC/amp after the Pula.

Edit: @Kenyon I also much appreciate the effort of the headphones.com gang, but I still can’t shake the (irrational) dislike of the strange flat-ish graph with preference zones that they try to push. Yea, I’m being irrational, I know

Edit 2: was it Toranku who corrected me one time that it’s not just the coupler problem? Above 10kHz, there would be too much variations between people’s ears and the way they wear IEMs.

 

[thaslaya]

There is always a chance that Paul’s unit is a lemon.

With KZ's legendary QC reputation?