[chinmie]

I see you are a soundstage addict as well.

To be fair, if special sauce in soundstage is what you look for, it’s very very hard to get any sub-1k IEM. Even the critically acclaimed Monarch II does not impress, soundstage imaging wise.



Meteor is my favourite at the moment (among mid-fi). Just slightly behind the U12t, slightly above the Andromeda, and ahead of everything else in my collection. This IEM does a few things that other mid-fi IEM can’t, or not as well:

• Bass extension with only BA woofers. The bass does well into the subbass, creating a tactile “snap” sensation with drums and bass guitar. Very reminiscent of the U12t.
• Treble extension. I can hear more details at the tail-end of musical notes or vocal lines. Reverb is also more noticeable, creating a strong sense of space. It means that Meteor has superior detail retrieval than some mid-fi IEM with poorer treble extension.
• Large and 3D soundstage. I particular like the way this IEM presents the background layer of the stage, such as the cheers of audience in live recordings.
• Imaging accuracy. It’s like a radar when playing FPS game.
• Small size.

It does have 1 draw back: the big dip at 5kHz. It makes the IEM sound dark and take some energy out of the sound. It also makes the tonality uncanny sometimes. It also reduces the incisiveness and the sense of clarity of Meteor, making you think that it is not very resolving. However, I found that Meteor only suffers when being compared directly against U12t or MEST MK II.

I can fix the treble problem somewhat using spin-fit tips, which tend to boost this region.

Interestingly, when talking about soundstage at below 200 usd, the TWS world impress me more, to a point that i much prefer using TWS for movies and gaming nowadays..not for music though, because for SQ/resolution, i find that even 20 usd wired IEMs are mostly better/more enjoyable to listen than most TWS that i've tried

 

[DynamicEars]

https://www.linsoul.com/collections/all/products/yanyin-canon-ii?variant=43928457052377​

Yanyin Canon II

4BA + 1 Biological Dynamic Driver Hybrid HiFi IEMs​

• 1 Biological Dynamic Driver and 4 Balanced Armature Drivers
• High Quality Graphene Single Crystal Copper Silver-Plated Cable
• Medical Resin Shell, Galaxy-looking Faceplate
• 2 Tuning Switches, 4 different musical styles
• $379.00 USD

Heard some rumor about this, it appeared a week ago on Amazon Japan. Only 2 switches this time, the original Canon was a really good IEM.

I have Yanyin Canon, they are nicely tuned, only lacks with higher extension of the trebles (air) the last or two last octaves of the air extension. And this MK II is too bad they are still using the Bio DD, sounded organic but they are on the slow side.

Can you STOP making me excited for these? Mine are still on a plane somewhere

How is the soundstage? The other day I visited a music store and finally has a chance to try MEST II. The soundstage and treble extension has some sorts of “magic sauce” that makes the MEST II so good. How close is the P8 staging, especially the outermost layer of the stage?

That's what I always said, especially in Monarch MKII thread (but got lot of attacks lol) that The Soundstage and imaging of Monarch MKII are clearly below Mests. Mest have special imaging, that precise layering. Oh If you haven't try the Mest OG, they have slightly sharper imaging than Mest MKII with cost of crispier edges, especially on lower treble around 6-7khz that leads to derive from naturalness. I think the best Imaging I've ever heard is on Mest MkI&II, u12t, Sony M9. Andromeda have great imaging but I sold them looong time ago and I didn't have high end player that time so just based on memory and comparison with M7 M9, they are still below those 4s

Haha

Unfortunately Soundstage is somewhat limited, P8 has wide diffusion field, so you don’t necessarily feel confined, however the image projection is in-your-head style, so the primary events will be projected near & around you, unlike MEST MKII’s spatial staging.

That’s the primary weakness of P8, I‘d note

Thanks for honest review and comparison. Thats what i like about you and other friends like @baskingshark and @o0genesis0o @Leonarfd and others, even you got review unit, you just telling the truth instead of implicitly covered the cons.
This make me rest assure because looking at P8 graph, some reviews made my tamed down curiosity fire up again

 

[s2kphile]

Penon posted output performance of Tail on their website.

Output performance

3.5mm output(low gain) 32Ω @1kHz, connect with PC

Impedance: 32Ω @1kHz

Output level: minimum: 900mV, 25.3mW; typical: 1000mV, 31.25mW; maximum: 1200mV, 45mW

3.5mm output(high gain) 600Ω @1kHz, connect with PC

Impedance: 600Ω @1kHz

Output level: minimum: 1800mV, 5.4mW; typical: 2000mV, 6.67mW; maximum: 2200mV, 8.07mW

4.4mm balanced output(low gain) 32Ω @1kHz, connect with PC

Impedance: 32Ω @1kHz

Output level: minimum: 1800mV, 101.25mW; typical: 2000mV, 125mW; maximum: 2200mV, 151.25mW

4.4mm balanced output(high gain) 600Ω @1kHz, connect with PC

Impedance: 600Ω @1kHz

Output level: minimum: 3800mV, 24.07mW; typical: 4000mV, 26.67mW; maximum: 4200mV, 29.4mW

 

[InvisibleInk]

Penon posted output performance of Tail on their website.

Output performance

3.5mm output(low gain) 32Ω @1kHz, connect with PC

Impedance: 32Ω @1kHz

Output level: minimum: 900mV, 25.3mW; typical: 1000mV, 31.25mW; maximum: 1200mV, 45mW

3.5mm output(high gain) 600Ω @1kHz, connect with PC

Impedance: 600Ω @1kHz

Output level: minimum: 1800mV, 5.4mW; typical: 2000mV, 6.67mW; maximum: 2200mV, 8.07mW

4.4mm balanced output(low gain) 32Ω @1kHz, connect with PC

Impedance: 32Ω @1kHz

Output level: minimum: 1800mV, 101.25mW; typical: 2000mV, 125mW; maximum: 2200mV, 151.25mW

4.4mm balanced output(high gain) 600Ω @1kHz, connect with PC

Impedance: 600Ω @1kHz

Output level: minimum: 3800mV, 24.07mW; typical: 4000mV, 26.67mW; maximum: 4200mV, 29.4mW

You just tagged a real head-fi user account named 1kHz 8 times...

 

[Surf Monkey]

Winter Ultra has a price now:

US $279.00 | Angelears and BQEYZ Winter Ultra in Ear Earphones 1DD+1BC HiFi Dynamic Driver PZT Bone Conduction Monitor Wired Earbud Headphone

https://a.aliexpress.com/_mrQPFRK

Pretty steep unless that BC driver is performing miracles.

 

[baskingshark]

I see you are a soundstage addict as well.

To be fair, if special sauce in soundstage is what you look for, it’s very very hard to get any sub-1k IEM. Even the critically acclaimed Monarch II does not impress, soundstage imaging wise.

Have u by chance tried the TRI I3 (original, not the pro version). It has superb soundstage depth and height (though width is average).

The BQEYZ Autumn also has a cavernous soundstage in all 3 dimensions, almost akin to earbuds. Plus it has an innovative swappable tuning nozzle that operates via a magnetic wand:

Very easy to swap out filters, and no risk of wear and tear.

The filters do work too, they change the sound below 400 Hz, but as the ears take the whole FR, decrease in the bass will make the treble brighter and vice versa (see saw effect). There's a bit of an annoying 5 kHz peak, but otherwise the soundstage is a standout, especially when the Autumn is amplified (46 ohms).

Winter Ultra has a price now:

US $279.00 | Angelears and BQEYZ Winter Ultra in Ear Earphones 1DD+1BC HiFi Dynamic Driver PZT Bone Conduction Monitor Wired Earbud Headphone

https://a.aliexpress.com/_mrQPFRK

Pretty steep unless that BC driver is performing miracles.

I suspect that the BC here is actually a piezo.

I had the original Winter and the (probable) piezo drivers gave it a great upper treble extension. Don't see any area where the "BC" touches the mastoid process to transmit sounds, so don't think it is a legit BC driver?

 

[Tzennn]

Have u by chance tried the TRI I3 (original, not the pro version). It has superb soundstage depth and height (though width is average).

The BQEYZ Autumn also has a cavernous soundstage in all 3 dimensions, almost akin to earbuds. Plus it has an innovative swappable tuning nozzle that operates via a magnetic wand:


Very easy to swap out filters, and no risk of wear and tear.


The filters do work too, they change the sound below 400 Hz, but as the ears take the whole FR, decrease in the bass will make the treble brighter and vice versa (see saw effect). There's a bit of an annoying 5 kHz peak, but otherwise the soundstage is a standout, especially when the Autumn is amplified (46 ohms).





I suspect that the BC here is actually a piezo.

I had the original Winter and the (probable) piezo drivers gave it a great upper treble extension. Don't see any area where the "BC" touches the mastoid process to transmit sounds, so don't think it is a legit BC driver?

Can you share your impression on FD11?

 

[o0genesis0o]

Have u by chance tried the TRI I3 (original, not the pro version). It has superb soundstage depth and height (though width is average).

The BQEYZ Autumn also has a cavernous soundstage in all 3 dimensions, almost akin to earbuds. Plus it has an innovative swappable tuning nozzle that operates via a magnetic wand:


Very easy to swap out filters, and no risk of wear and tear.


The filters do work too, they change the sound below 400 Hz, but as the ears take the whole FR, decrease in the bass will make the treble brighter and vice versa (see saw effect). There's a bit of an annoying 5 kHz peak, but otherwise the soundstage is a standout, especially when the Autumn is amplified (46 ohms).

Good advice! I should checkout that Autumn one. Nothing on the graph suggests interesting soundstage, so I didn't pay much attention to it.

I found the soundstage description is as nuanced as the "resolution", if we look at it carefully. Say, the HD800S. Everyone says "it's wide." But I've also heard a few people complaining that it is "intimate." Upon further investigation, it seems they talk about the flatness / 2D of the stage. Wide, yes, but not deep.

I'm still trying to crystallise my thought about soundstage, but I think there are a few aspects to describe the stage:

• Placement of the centre image where the bulk of the music exist. Is it strictly inside the head (a.k.a., Moondrop / Harman style?) or slightly in front of the head (U12T style). This aspect is mostly controlled by upper midrange, at least to my ears.
• Are the instruments focused around the centre of the stage (Harman IEM) or "diffused" across the soundstage (Andromeda 2020). I guess this effect has something to do with lower-midrange.
• Within the central blob of soundstage, do you have the illusion that instruments are at different distances or they are on the same wall of sound (Blessing 3 style).
• When the instruments pan to the side, how far do they go? Within the shells (e.g., Shure SE215) or outside the shells, reaching the shoulders?
• How about the outermost of the soundstage (ambience, audience, reverbs)? Do they sound far away? Do they sound like they come from the environment around you? I find that IEMs with great treble extension does this very well.

---

Take Blessing 3 as an example:

• Mostly in-the-head centre image.
• Instruments focused around that centre area.
• Wall of sound.
• Instruments pan far to the side, beyond the shells (that's why many folks on Reddit say Blessing series have large soundstage)
• Outermost layer of the stage: decent, but not 100% convincing that they are far away.

Due to the wide panning, I give both Blessing 2 and 3 4/5 for soundstage, since they are really not bad. But the wall-of-sound, in-the-head presentation is not what I like at all.

---

Take Meteor as another example:

• Sometimes in-the-head, usually slightly in front of the head.
• There is some diffusion, but not Andromeda-like.
• Clear sense of depth contrast within the central blob of the stage.
• Oh yeah they pan far to the sides
• Yes, they sound convincingly far away when the music is mixed that way.

That's, my friends, is 5/5 soundstage material.

But here is a pickle. The MEST MkII and U12T are just slightly better. Not day and night, not "life changing", but slightly more "magical." So I guess meteor should be 4.5/5 in staging instead.

---

One more observation: open back headphones and earbuds tend to have a very strong sense of diffusion, like the central blob of the stage is larger and more spread out. To me, they can still sound in-the-head, and they can still have wall-of-sound presentation. Essentially, they "cheat" with open-back design. Same with 64 Audio IEMs with APEX modules or FiiO open back IEM.

 

[FastGecko5]

Does anyone have both the Soundrhyme SR5 and the Aful P5? I'm curious how they compare and if the P5 is worth the extra like $60 over the SR5.

 

[ToneDeafMonk]

Does anyone have both the Soundrhyme SR5 and the Aful P5? I'm curious how they compare and if the P5 is worth the extra like $60 over the SR5.

P8 price leaked at $379 at well see how far you can stretch fhe wallet and how much bass is a priority for you.

 

[InvisibleInk]

Good advice! I should checkout that Autumn one. Nothing on the graph suggests interesting soundstage, so I didn't pay much attention to it.

I found the soundstage description is as nuanced as the "resolution", if we look at it carefully. Say, the HD800S. Everyone says "it's wide." But I've also heard a few people complaining that it is "intimate." Upon further investigation, it seems they talk about the flatness / 2D of the stage. Wide, yes, but not deep.

I'm still trying to crystallise my thought about soundstage, but I think there are a few aspects to describe the stage:

• Placement of the centre image where the bulk of the music exist. Is it strictly inside the head (a.k.a., Moondrop / Harman style?) or slightly in front of the head (U12T style). This aspect is mostly controlled by upper midrange, at least to my ears.
• Are the instruments focused around the centre of the stage (Harman IEM) or "diffused" across the soundstage (Andromeda 2020). I guess this effect has something to do with lower-midrange.
• Within the central blob of soundstage, do you have the illusion that instruments are at different distances or they are on the same wall of sound (Blessing 3 style).
• When the instruments pan to the side, how far do they go? Within the shells (e.g., Shure SE215) or outside the shells, reaching the shoulders?
• How about the outermost of the soundstage (ambience, audience, reverbs)? Do they sound far away? Do they sound like they come from the environment around you? I find that IEMs with great treble extension does this very well.

---

Take Blessing 3 as an example:

• Mostly in-the-head centre image.
• Instruments focused around that centre area.
• Wall of sound.
• Instruments pan far to the side, beyond the shells (that's why many folks on Reddit say Blessing series have large soundstage)
• Outermost layer of the stage: decent, but not 100% convincing that they are far away.

Due to the wide panning, I give both Blessing 2 and 3 4/5 for soundstage, since they are really not bad. But the wall-of-sound, in-the-head presentation is not what I like at all.

---

Take Meteor as another example:

• Sometimes in-the-head, usually slightly in front of the head.
• There is some diffusion, but not Andromeda-like.
• Clear sense of depth contrast within the central blob of the stage.
• Oh yeah they pan far to the sides
• Yes, they sound convincingly far away when the music is mixed that way.

That's, my friends, is 5/5 soundstage material.

But here is a pickle. The MEST MkII and U12T are just slightly better. Not day and night, not "life changing", but slightly more "magical." So I guess meteor should be 4.5/5 in staging instead.

---

One more observation: open back headphones and earbuds tend to have a very strong sense of diffusion, like the central blob of the stage is larger and more spread out. To me, they can still sound in-the-head, and they can still have wall-of-sound presentation. Essentially, they "cheat" with open-back design. Same with 64 Audio IEMs with APEX modules or FiiO open back IEM.

Live jazz recordings are great place to experience soundstage. Live chamber music as well.

Studio recordings, not so much IMO. There, imaging is more noticable and staging is more “intimate.”

 

[tombrisbane]

Time for a listen!

 

[FastGecko5]

P8 price leaked at $379 at well see how far you can stretch fhe wallet and how much bass is a priority for you.

Yeah I'm waiting for that. Probably gonna pick it up over either of them when it's out. Got a new job recently so might take the plunge into more expensive territory.

PS - thanks for the PR1, C3, and Ling Long - funnily enough the one that impressed me the most is the Ling Long.

 

[baskingshark]

Can you share your impression on FD11?

Fiio FD11 impressions:


Pros:
- Built like a tank
- Well balanced V-shaped profile, generally safe tuning
- Visceral sub-bass rumble
- Extended treble that isn't very harsh
- Natural timbre
- Decent technicalities for a budget single DD


Cons:
- Limited accessories
- Fit issues for some (heavy + rounded shell may not fit all consumers)
- 2-pin connector is semi-proprietary, quite a number of aftermarket cables cannot fit it
- Slight mid-bass bleed


Still doing further testing and A/B comparisons, will report back.

Good advice! I should checkout that Autumn one. Nothing on the graph suggests interesting soundstage, so I didn't pay much attention to it.

I found the soundstage description is as nuanced as the "resolution", if we look at it carefully. Say, the HD800S. Everyone says "it's wide." But I've also heard a few people complaining that it is "intimate." Upon further investigation, it seems they talk about the flatness / 2D of the stage. Wide, yes, but not deep.

I'm still trying to crystallise my thought about soundstage, but I think there are a few aspects to describe the stage:

• Placement of the centre image where the bulk of the music exist. Is it strictly inside the head (a.k.a., Moondrop / Harman style?) or slightly in front of the head (U12T style). This aspect is mostly controlled by upper midrange, at least to my ears.
• Are the instruments focused around the centre of the stage (Harman IEM) or "diffused" across the soundstage (Andromeda 2020). I guess this effect has something to do with lower-midrange.
• Within the central blob of soundstage, do you have the illusion that instruments are at different distances or they are on the same wall of sound (Blessing 3 style).
• When the instruments pan to the side, how far do they go? Within the shells (e.g., Shure SE215) or outside the shells, reaching the shoulders?
• How about the outermost of the soundstage (ambience, audience, reverbs)? Do they sound far away? Do they sound like they come from the environment around you? I find that IEMs with great treble extension does this very well.

---

Take Blessing 3 as an example:

• Mostly in-the-head centre image.
• Instruments focused around that centre area.
• Wall of sound.
• Instruments pan far to the side, beyond the shells (that's why many folks on Reddit say Blessing series have large soundstage)
• Outermost layer of the stage: decent, but not 100% convincing that they are far away.

Due to the wide panning, I give both Blessing 2 and 3 4/5 for soundstage, since they are really not bad. But the wall-of-sound, in-the-head presentation is not what I like at all.

---

Take Meteor as another example:

• Sometimes in-the-head, usually slightly in front of the head.
• There is some diffusion, but not Andromeda-like.
• Clear sense of depth contrast within the central blob of the stage.
• Oh yeah they pan far to the sides
• Yes, they sound convincingly far away when the music is mixed that way.

That's, my friends, is 5/5 soundstage material.

But here is a pickle. The MEST MkII and U12T are just slightly better. Not day and night, not "life changing", but slightly more "magical." So I guess meteor should be 4.5/5 in staging instead.

---

One more observation: open back headphones and earbuds tend to have a very strong sense of diffusion, like the central blob of the stage is larger and more spread out. To me, they can still sound in-the-head, and they can still have wall-of-sound presentation. Essentially, they "cheat" with open-back design. Same with 64 Audio IEMs with APEX modules or FiiO open back IEM.

Soundstage is a very strange beast.

Many things affect soundstage perception across different users/rigs, even when using the same transducer:
- Eartips used
- Volume played at - louder volume might give better soundstage
- Source (quite important especially with regard to amplification of harder to drive transducers)
- Recording itself - soundstage is somewhat mixed in during the mastering process
- Hearing health/psychoacoustic phenomenon

So I can see why different folks have different perception of soundstage

Yep and agreed that some transducers which huge soundstage can have poorer imaging, so stuff sounds fuzzy and not-defined. Compared to say a transducer that images better but has a more intimate soundstage, though instruments can be pinpointed easily.

 

[Tzennn]

I'm still trying to crystallise my thought about soundstage, but I think there are a few aspects to describe the stage:

• Placement of the centre image where the bulk of the music exist. Is it strictly inside the head (a.k.a., Moondrop / Harman style?) or slightly in front of the head (U12T style). This aspect is mostly controlled by upper midrange, at least to my ears.
• Are the instruments focused around the centre of the stage (Harman IEM) or "diffused" across the soundstage (Andromeda 2020). I guess this effect has something to do with lower-midrange.
• Within the central blob of soundstage, do you have the illusion that instruments are at different distances or they are on the same wall of sound (Blessing 3 style).
• When the instruments pan to the side, how far do they go? Within the shells (e.g., Shure SE215) or outside the shells, reaching the shoulders?
• How about the outermost of the soundstage (ambience, audience, reverbs)? Do they sound far away? Do they sound like they come from the environment around you? I find that IEMs with great treble extension does this very well.

Lol i'm literally opposite of that, i personally think:
- Instrument placement / Headroom controlled by pre Pinna and other end (upper treble/air)
- Diffusion controlled by the rest of sound.
For me pinna is the gain after compensate Munson Curve / Harman Curve. Calculate by looking for the lowest point in mid, then normalize that lowest point to 60db, you can see immediately where's gain where's dip.
For example Blessing 3 while having the peak around 2,8-3khz, it's gain actually at 1.6khz (after compensate) so after 1.6khz is another gain till 3khz --> Instrument spread across stage.
Another example is Mest, while having peak at around 3khz, it's actual gain at 1khz, and after that is just dip after dip, so in theory instrument shouldn't sound diffused. Again i haven't heard this so this is just my observation
Edit: correction of B3, after 1,6khz gain is another gain till 3khz, then flat out till 5khz (which make it sound flat) so instrument diffused from mid from mid --> treble.
Editv2: if after gain is a dip, there's a chance instrument might get diffuse to bass which result in "bass bleed" sound