[Coq de Combat]

What does Loudness really do in an amp? At first it sounds like it increases the bass and the output volume, but the sound is both clearer and better if I just turn the bass knob up a notch and increase the volume. I guess what I'm saying is that I think Loudness muddies up the sound. Why is that? What exactly does it do? Are there differences between amplifier brands' implementations of Loudness or is it some technology that should be fairly same-same across brands? Also, since I'm listening through this old amp ... there is a slight risk of it being muddying things up due to age and stuff I don't even want to know about. 

 

[MuppetFace]

Unique Melody is coming out with a triple dynamic driver CIEM:
 
http://www.head-fi.org/t/649836/new-unique-melody-triple-dynamic-ciem-announced
 
...and I remain intrigued by the PP6. The first half of this year is definitely going to be CIEM-centric for me, what with the JH-3A and MH335DW coming my way. I'm sort of vascilating between the PP6 and UE PRM, or maybe going the wildcard route (CW-L05QD or C435).

 

[driver 8]

I'm somewhat interested in getting more CIEMs eventually, but I think I'm actually done buying headphones and headphone accessories for awhile.  I feel like I'm at a good place with my rigs now (including what's to come) and, while I genuinely enjoy this stuff, buying things mostly functions as an anxiety bandaid for me.  Lately I've been using other things for that and it's working out well.
 
Well... iuno, I might get one of those FreqPhase JH's if you think it really offers something over the other IEMs we have in common.  They do intrigue me.

 

[DigitalFreak]

Quote:

 
You know it sucks to read threads to see if you are going to have to moderate them? I'm interested in reading what you have to say though.
 

I don't have much time I have to fix a very quick breakfast get lunch together jump in my monkey suit and get to work. Don't worry about going out of your way to moderate the thread I'll be doing that with my posts or at least trying to. All I'm asking is if anyone gets overly enthusiastic in their discussion their posts get nuked. I really don't want people getting insulting and causing infighting on the thread is all. I won't get the interconnects for a few days and if I want to give the idea of cable burn in a fair shake I'm guessing I'll need at least 4 or 5 weeks of use before I say anything on the subject. By that time I should also have my 4A's and I can also put it's Magnus cable to the test. It's probably going to be a good month maybe a bit longer before anything gets posted. In the meantime I have some other interesting ideas kicking around in my head and hopefully a couple of other head-fiers in my city will be interested enough to pitch in on this little experiment.

 

[Achmedisdead]

Quote:

What does Loudness really do in an amp? At first it sounds like it increases the bass and the output volume, but the sound is both clearer and better if I just turn the bass knob up a notch and increase the volume. I guess what I'm saying is that I think Loudness muddies up the sound. Why is that? What exactly does it do? Are there differences between amplifier brands' implementations of Loudness or is it some technology that should be fairly same-same across brands? Also, since I'm listening through this old amp ... there is a slight risk of it being muddying things up due to age and stuff I don't even want to know about. 

I've heard variances in different stereo receivers' loudness function. My Pioneer receiver's loudness function bumps up  volume with a very slight treble bump and significant bass bump....so not terribly muddy, but enough so that I don't use it. My father's old lower-grade Teac receiver's loudness was dreadful....huge mid-bass that muffled everything. I never told him, but I was glad when that thing died.....its sound offended me....lol.

 

[Coq de Combat]

Quote:

I've heard variances in different stereo receivers' loudness function. My Pioneer receiver's loudness function bumps up  volume with a very slight treble bump and significant bass bump....so not terribly muddy, but enough so that I don't use it. My father's old lower-grade Teac receiver's loudness was dreadful....huge mid-bass that muffled everything. I never told him, but I was glad when that thing died.....its sound offended me....lol.

Yeah, I just kind of noticed that it muddied everything up terribly bad when I started fooling around with it, with the bass crawling up in places I didn't want it to, and so on. If I volume match it with the volume knob instead, the sound is clearer even if I turn the bass knob to the max with the bass being somewhat more powerful. That's kind of why I was wondering what it really does. The logical thought is that the sound goes through some extra capacitor or some filter or something along those lines, which of course may or may not be in a bad shape.

 

[ardgedee]

Quote:

What does Loudness really do in an amp? At first it sounds like it increases the bass and the output volume, but the sound is both clearer and better if I just turn the bass knob up a notch and increase the volume.

 
Loudness compensation is intended to increase the highs and lows to restore the equal-loudness contour when listening at low volume -- it's not intended to be used at conventional or high volume.
 
The inevitable gotcha is that since your speakers and headphones are reactive devices that will probably not exactly follow the contour model at a given low SPL, the loudness switch can end up sounding nonexistent or cartoonishly exaggerated, depending.
 
Not to mention that the switch is an all-in or all-out adjustment, while the extent of compensation needed is a continuum determined by the average sound pressure level.
 
Some of the better vintage receivers and integrateds have a loudness dial rather than a switch, permitting you to vary the extent of the compensation. IIRC, a couple of the more covetable Sansui integrated amps even separate loudness dials for the high and low ranges.

 

[Coq de Combat]

Quote:

 
Loudness compensation is intended to increase the highs and lows to restore the equal-loudness contour when listening at low volume -- it's not intended to be used at conventional or high volume.
 
The inevitable gotcha is that since your speakers and headphones are reactive devices that will probably not exactly follow the contour model at a given low SPL, the loudness switch can end up sounding nonexistent or cartoonishly exaggerated, depending.
 
Not to mention that the switch is an all-in or all-out adjustment, while the extent of compensation needed is a continuum determined by the average sound pressure level.
 
Some of the better vintage receivers and integrateds have a loudness dial rather than a switch, permitting you to vary the extent of the compensation. IIRC, a couple of the more covetable Sansui integrated amps even separate loudness dials for the high and low ranges.

Ah, right, so it has to do with the equal-loudness contour. Okay, trying it out at a pretty low volume it's not as bad as when used at higher volume.
 
Well, there you go, you really do learn something new each day.

 

[tomscy2000]

Quote:

  Ahh I was going to ask before are you a doctor?

 
Not yet.

 
Quote:

  A neat write-up for a rather under-appreciated and elusive item: http://www.head-fi.org/t/650160/review-audio-technica-ath-em9d

 
Pwetty!
 
Quote:

 

 
ALO's stuff has always looked great to me, but I don't know if they're really worth it. I guess it's always up to the individual to decide. A word of note, though; their cables are stiffer than they appear to be. I handled an SXC 24 FitEar cable before, and it was way stiffer than I ever anticipated. Pictures belie actual ergonomics.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by ardgedee /img/forum/go_quote.gif  (edited a couple times for clarity)

 
Editing is such a necessary evil, sometimes.
 
Quote:

  ...and I remain intrigued by the PP6.

 
Really? Even after what I told you? *crosses arms* *shakes head*

 
Quote:

Loudness compensation is intended to increase the highs and lows to restore the equal-loudness contour when listening at low volume -- it's not intended to be used at conventional or high volume.

 
How many people here remember hitting the 'LOUD' button on their tape deck car stereos?

 

[MuppetFace]

Quote:

 
Really? Even after what I told you? *crosses arms* *shakes head*

 

 
 
I can be very unreasonable at times.
 
For instance wanting a HeadAmp GS-X solely because it's going to have a new chassis to match the BHSE, and I could get it in the same seafoam color as my BHSE.
 
* * * * * * *
 
Speaking of amps, I'm really interested in the rev-amp-ed Eddie Current 2A3 that will be coming out soonish. It's going to be using the BA's heater now as well as some upgraded parts, and apparently this brings its performance up to a whole 'nother level. Maybe beyond even the BA? I'm mainly interested in other tube options since I've got the upgraded Moth 2A3 in the works; perhaps 45s.
 
It would be that or the Leviathan, and TBH I'm not sure I can justify the cost of the Leviathan given my dwindling interest in fullsized dynamic headphones.

 

[tomscy2000]

Quote:

I can be very unreasonable at times.
 
For instance wanting a HeadAmp GS-X solely because it's going to have a new chassis to match the BHSE, and I could get it in the same seafoam color as my BHSE.
 
* * * * * * *

 
I know!

 
BTW, I just read the description of the sound quality of the new UE Vocal RM:
 

The UE Vocal Reference Monitor's 3-way crossover has been designed to be precise and accurate. It contains the most components of any UE crossover, and since we are focusing on a single "instrument" it has the most narrow frequency response (tailored to voice) of any UE IEM. The use of custom wound inductors leads the way in the industry in developing accurate and purpose-built band-pass filters so that the extremely important mid-range frequencies are precisely tuned for the job at hand.

 
While the VRM is useless for people like us, I think this simple statement is really telling about how far ahead UE is in the game. They're really the only ones who can do this. They've already proved they can laser-trim SMD components in-house with the PRM, and now this. I really hope they revamp the UERM and make it even better. Whatever they come out with next, I'm paying attention.

 

[driver 8]

On a completely unrelated note, since I've started forming new musskull mass I'm noticing it happening more on the right side of my body than the left and it's bothering me.  I blame using a messenger bag for years and years, always on my right side.

 

[Coq de Combat]

Quote:

I blame using a messenger bag for years and years, always on my right side.

Either that, or ...
 

 

[Mimouille]

Unique Melody is coming out with a triple dynamic driver CIEM:

http://www.head-fi.org/t/649836/new-unique-melody-triple-dynamic-ciem-announced


...and I remain intrigued by the PP6. The first half of this year is definitely going to be CIEM-centric for me, what with the JH-3A and MH335DW coming my way. I'm sort of vascilating between the PP6 and UE PRM, or maybe going the wildcard route (CW-L05QD or C435).

Heard anything about cw iems? What is that sort of resistance for?

 

[Tangster]

Took possession of a new pair of IE80s today. Not very impressed, I hope it's just because the stock tips are all dreadful. I'll get some complys on it when I get back to my place as I'm currently at  my parents for Chinese New Year.
 
Midrange is too laid back with too much bass bleed. Cable feels cheap and tacky. Soundstage is ok, but in no way compares to a fullsize headphone(except something like the M50 or KNS8400). Treble is quite nice, however "quite nice" treble isn't really a shining recommendation for the IE80. I'll give it some more head time over the next week before deciding if I'll keep it or try and trade it for something else.