[Magick Man]

I don't know where you have seen a headphones ranking with beats on top.
http://www.head-fi.org/products/category/over-ear
or in one of the best review on headfi :
http://www.head-fi.org/t/634201/battle-of-the-flagships-50-headphones-compared
I am not saying it is all true or that the lcd2s are the best, or the m50s are on the third place, but you cannot deny their value.
And bare in mind that it depends very much where you get your numbers from.
Think of asking all of the vegetarians of their impressions of eating red meat, instead of asking a larger set of people.

You were talking about sales numbers ("numbers of people who like them"), and a very large number of people like Beats, many, many times more than like any other brand. So, they must be right, eh?

The "best" review on Head-Fi isn't accurate, just motivated by popular opinion. It's only a repetition of the usual tropes and mountains of cliched comments made about various headphones over the years. I own racks of hi-fi/mid-fi cans and I can point out many headphones that are better than Audeze, in measurable ways. For instance, the Koss ESP/950s crush them completely, except in looks, as do the HE-500s, and the HE-400s (which are less than 1/2 the price). Even the $350 HD650 is more accurate, easier to drive, less flabby, and a lot more comfortable.

There's a huge LCD following around these parts, but it isn't due to amazing performance.

 

[dan.gheorghe]

You were talking about sales numbers ("numbers of people who like them"), and a very large number of people like Beats, many, many times more than like any other brand. So, they must be right, eh?
The "best" review on Head-Fi isn't accurate, just motivated by popular opinion. It's only a repetition of the usual tropes and mountains of cliched comments made about various headphones over the years. I own racks of hi-fi/mid-fi cans and I can point out many headphones that are better than Audeze, in measurable ways. For instance, the Koss ESP/950s crush them completely, except in looks, as do the HE-500s, and the HE-400s (which are less than 1/2 the price). Even the $350 HD650 is more accurate, easier to drive, less flabby, and a lot more comfortable.
There's a huge LCD following around these parts, but it isn't due to amazing performance.

The numbers are based on the impressions of audiophiles. I cannot say that people listening to beats are audiophiles. Again... the thing with getting the impression from the wrong target....as I have said in my last post.

Again they cannot all (audiophiles , not normal consumers ) be wrong.

I have had the hd650 and it is by all means out of the lcd2s league and in every aspect . And i liked so much the hd650 that I was sure that any other headphones i will buy, i will keep it, until i have met the lcd2

Again, everyone is entitled to his opinion.

But in this passion from beyond a level there is no definite truth, there is only your truth, your intimate experience with the sound you like and others may not.

All i know is that I started having problems getting the lcd2s off my head

 

[ardgedee]

This is not where I would have expected a Beats vs. LCD-2 argument.

 

[Magick Man]

The numbers are based on the impressions of audiophiles. I cannot say that people listening to beats are audiophiles. Again... the thing with getting the impression from the wrong target....as I have said in my last post.
Again they cannot all (audiophiles , not normal consumers ) be wrong.
I have had the hd650 and it is by all means out of the lcd2s league and in every aspect . And i liked so much the hd650 that I was sure that any other headphones i will buy i will keep it, until i have met the lcd2
Again, everyone is entitled to his opinion.
But in this passion from a level beyond there is no definite truth, there is only your truth, your intimate experience with the sound you like and others may not.

Indeed, they can, and often are, wrong. You're assuming that all "audiophiles" love Audeze cans, and that's not the case at all.

I liken LCD headphones to the venerable Lamborghini Countach. They look great, are wildly popular with specific people, but they're uncomfortable, are victims of poor QC, and are relatively mediocre performers, especially in terms of value for money.

 

[warrenpchi]

Quote:

This is not where I would have expected a Beats vs. LCD-2 argument.

 
But if any thread on HF were to qualify as being somewhat analogous to the twilight zone, this would be it. 

 

[dan.gheorghe]

Indeed, they can, and often are, wrong. You're assuming that all "audiophiles" love Audeze cans, and that's not the case at all.
I liken LCD headphones to the venerable Lamborghini Countach. They look great, are wildly popular with specific people, but they're uncomfortable, are victims of poor QC, and are relatively mediocre performers, especially in terms of value for money.

Again i do not think you have understood what i have said. I did not assume that all audiophiles like it, but it received a lot of thumbs up from a lot of them, bringing them to the top liked headphones on headfi.

Please do not twist my words.
Let me be clearer:

• good statistics with large numbers get you closer to the truth. What is good statistics? One important thing is choosing of the subjects upon the statistics is done.
• If you choose 10k people that, are not audiophiles and like beats audio, you chose the wrong crowd
• headfi has a lot of audiophile members. Ok?
• who are the most qualified people to vote for a headphones quality? People on overclocking forums? Maybe in medicine forums? hmmm....i think not. People that think us mad for spending 1k on a headphone? People that listen to beats?
• No to all of those. The right crowd to ask is found on this forum! And, the people from this forum concluded in a high ranking of the LCD2.

Again, I am not saying this is the best pair of headphones out there. I have not listened to so many headphones as you did, that is for sure, but I had the opportunity to listen to a bunch, and this is the one I have chosen, and sir ,i tell you I am very pleased with it.


I did not hear Sennheiser HE6 or any Stax, and I cannot compare it to them, and maybe it is mediocre compared to them, but I have heard other headphones in LCD2s price range, and concluded that the LCD2s are worth the money, every penny. This is of course, again, my opinion.

And with this I end this quarrel, because i do not think it is going anywhere.

I am amazed though, that with your experience in audio, you are so inflexible in a so subjective domain.

P.S.
Speaking of ranking and numbers, until now I have the same personal ranking for long listening terms, as the first 3 headphones here

 

[Magick Man]

Again i do not think you have understood what i have said. I did not assume that all audiophiles like it, but it received a lot of thumbs up from a lot of them, bringing them to the top liked headphones on headfi.
Please do not twist my words.
Let me be clearer:

• good statistics with large numbers get you closer to the truth. What is good statistics? One important thing is the subjects chosen, upon the statistics are done.
• If you choose 10k people that, are not audiophiles and like beats audio, you chose the wrong crowd
• headfi has a lot of audiophile members. Ok?
• who are the most qualified people to vote for a headphones quality? People on overclocking forums? Maybe in medicine forums? hmmm....i think not. People that think us mad for spending 1k on a headphone? People that listen to beats?
• No to all of those. The right crowd to ask is found on this forum! And, the people from this forum concluded in a high ranking of the LCD2.

Again, I am not saying this is the best pair of headphones out there. I have not listened to so many headphones as you did, that is for sure, but I had the opportunity to listen to a bunch, and this is the one I have chosen, and sir ,i tell you I am very pleased with it.
I did not hear Sennheiser HE6 or any Stax, and I cannot compare it to them, and maybe it is mediocre compared to them, but I have heard other headphones in LCD2s price range, and concluded that the LCD2s are worth the money, every penny. This is of course, again, my opinion.
And with this I end this quarrel, because i do not think it is going anywhere.
I am amazed though, that with your experience in audio, you are so inflexible in a so subjective domain.

Yes, Audeze headphones have a cult of followers, but that doesn't make them particularly good. They're simply popular within a niche of a small niche. I have zero problems spending big bucks on audio, when it's warranted. But with LCDs, it's largely talk with no trousers.

But, hey, you like them, so that's the most important thing.

 

[warrenpchi]

Well if it costs more, it must be better.  Mahler proved that.

 

[DigitalFreak]

I dunno, I haven't heard many flagship headphones (only two to be exact) but I quite enjoyed the LCD 2 hooked up to the Schiit Lyr/Bifrost. When I did a A\B comparison to the HE-6 I thought the HE-6 was a more capable can in that the bass was better controlled mids were more detailed and the treble was more extended. Here's the thing though out of the two cans it was the LCD-2 that was able to make me tap my toes to the music. Meh, what do I know I guess I'll never be an audiophile. Maybe one of these days I'll take the plunge and grab myself a HE-500 and see what the fuss is about. Even so I'd be quite proud to own a LCD-2.
 
@dan.gheorghe
 
Keep rocking the LCD-2's my man. I also have to compliment you on being lucky enough to be married to such a beautiful wife.
 
God bless Dan

 

[DigitalFreak]

Quote:

Well if it costs more, it must be better.  Mahler proved that.

I liked his review but I agree some of what he wrote made me go.....??? huh??? Oh well, it's all subjective in the end.

 

[jgray91]

I dunno why I ever doubt the Prophecies of the Pirates, but it seems that they are right, again. Mahler's list is now being thrown around as Word of God.

 

[DigitalFreak]

Quote:

I dunno why I ever doubt the Prophecies of the Pirates, but it seems that they are right, again. Mahler's list is now being thrown around as Word of God.

The pirates have special powers and know these things beforehand.
 
Seriously though, I think Mahler is a good guy who knows a lot about this hobby but I doubt others who have collections that rival his would agree with some of his findings. Do what I do my friend just ignore it and stay close to the threads with people whose reviews you trust. Keep Johnny Wanna Be Audiophile on the outside.

 

[DigitalFreak]

By the way, since we're talking about Mahler's review has anyone here heard the Kam HP1? That can was news to me and I haven't found much about it. All I know is it's neutral sounding

 

[billybob_jcv]

The description of "internal sound ports" in a closed-back design has me a bit confused. If the ports are internal only and not to the outside, what exactly do they do? It seems to me that the earcup is either part of the sound chamber, or it's not. Headphone acoustics are more confusing than speakers...
http://kaminstruments.com/Headphones_%26_monitors.htm

 

[jgray91]

@DF spot on friend.