[emertxe]

  Emertxe, how would you rank all those mid-fi headphones (K712, HE-400, DT880, Q701, HD600, HD650) that you heard based on sound quality?

 
Wow, very good question, love it! 

 
 
Basically, one must stress that audio and headphones especially are all very subjective... There is no best headphone. There are only headphones that YOU find better and therefore it's always good to state why. I would say that I rate neutrality very high, comfort follows and soundstaging is likely the third aspect I am looking for. I must also stress that I am not a basshead but still if I don't hear enough bass from headphones, they fail to impress me enough. It's not about hearing bass all the time - it's about hearing instruments and voices in a realistic way.
 
=======================================================================
 
Ok, if I do not take comfort into account, it would go like this:
 
1) AKG K712 Pro - if you have the money, skip everything else and go for these...
 
... add certain gap here...
 
2a) Beyedynamic DT880 - really neutral and good sounding headphones, except the artificial treble peak. If you are willing to EQ the 7-10khz down, these are definitely the second best recommendation. Their soundstage is not as good as with Q701 or K712 Pro though.
 
2b) Sennheiser HD600 - if you are not willing to EQ the DT880, I would most probably go for these. They are very natural sounding... Not the fastest, the most expansive or suited for detail-heads but natural. Their bass do not reach very low, you have to go for DT880 or K712 Pro if you want deep bass. But their very mild midbass emphasis and forgiving nature makes them good for almost every genre.
 
3) AKG Q701 - Their soundstage is great (really, in comparison to DT880 and HD600) but the overall sound signature lacks bass - that makes many instruments and vocals as well sound unnatural. Their 2khz also makes vocals sound shouty and a bit sibilant. They are a bit plasticky sounding, more so than DT880 or HD600. Still, in comparison to other headphones and considering their price, they are a quite good option.
 
... add certain gap here...
 
4) Audio Technica AD1000 and Shure 1840 - both offer good soundstaging and light and airy sound but seriously lack deeper bass to be called neutral. Both are also over-trebled (AD1000 more). My opinion? Definitely skip them, not worth the money. Q701 can be had cheaper and offer a similar sound signature and soundstaging. Though I haven't spent as much time with them as with the first 4 headphones in this list (which I liked the most).
 
5) Sennheiser HD598 (or modded HD558) - surprisingly versatile and almost neutral headphones - it's their strongest feature. Technically not on the level of headphones above but yeah, they are both very pleasing and I would gladly recommend them to anyone - very comfortable, versatile sound signature, quite good soundstage, low price...
 
... add certain gap here...
 
6) Sennheiser HD650 -  I was told that there are many different-sounding HD650s but I don't really care. I listened to them on a fast and neutral amplifier (Concerto) but they were very slow and veiled and offered poor soundstaging. Very strong clamp was also an issue (sorry to mention but it was really a dealbreaker itself). Very midbassy and veiled sound... I cannot recommend this to anyone who wants to stay awake for more than 5 minutes (I was shocked that I actually started falling asleep with these headphones after a minute... I thought it's impossible when listening to music with headphones). I cannot understand how anyone could even think about comparing HD650 to LCD-2... It's a different galaxy or maybe even dimension
 
7) Audio-technica AD900 and Shure 1440 - superbright, very artificial-sounding, absolutely underwhelming and dont want me to talk more about them... Horrible headphones!
 
 
=======================================================================

 
 
I somewhere posted more in-depth notes I think... Will try to find them.
 
Oh - IMHO IMHO IMHO IMHO IMHO 

 

[BillsonChang007]

Wow, very good question, love it! :tongue_smile:  

Basically, one must stress that audio and headphones especially are all very subjective... There is no best headphone. There are only headphones that YOU find better and therefore it's always good to state why. I would say that I rate neutrality very high, comfort follows and soundstaging is likely the third aspect I am looking for. I must also stress that I am not a basshead but still if I don't hear enough bass from headphones, they fail to impress me enough. It's not about hearing bass all the time - it's about hearing instruments and voices in a realistic way.

=======================================================================

Ok, if I do not take comfort into account, it would go like this:

1) AKG K712 Pro - if you have the money, skip everything else and go for these...

... add certain gap here...

2a) Beyedynamic DT880 - really neutral and good sounding headphones, except the artificial treble peak. If you are willing to EQ the 7-10khz down, these are definitely the second best recommendation. Their soundstage is not as good as with Q701 or K712 Pro though.

2b) Sennheiser HD600 - if you are not willing to EQ the DT880, I would most probably go for these. They are very natural sounding... Not the fastest, the most expansive or suited for detail-heads but natural. Their bass do not reach very low, you have to go for DT880 or K712 Pro if you want deep bass. But their very mild midbass emphasis and forgiving nature makes them good for almost every genre.

3) AKG Q701 - Their soundstage is great (really, in comparison to DT880 and HD600) but the overall sound signature lacks bass - that makes many instruments and vocals as well sound unnatural. Their 2khz also makes vocals sound shouty and a bit sibilant. They are a bit plasticky sounding, more so than DT880 or HD600. Still, in comparison to other headphones and considering their price, they are a quite good option.

... add certain gap here...

4) Audio Technica AD1000 and Shure 1840 - both offer good soundstaging and light and airy sound but seriously lack deeper bass to be called neutral. Both are also over-trebled (AD1000 more). My opinion? Definitely skip them, not worth the money. Q701 can be had cheaper and offer a similar sound signature and soundstaging. Though I haven't spent as much time with them as with the first 4 headphones in this list (which I liked the most).

5) Sennheiser HD598 (or modded HD558) - surprisingly versatile and almost neutral headphones - it's their strongest feature. Technically not on the level of headphones above but yeah, they are both very pleasing and I would gladly recommend them to anyone - very comfortable, versatile sound signature, quite good soundstage, low price...

... add certain gap here...

6) Sennheiser HD650 -  I was told that there are many different-sounding HD650s but I don't really care. I listened to them on a fast and neutral amplifier (Concerto) but they were very slow and veiled and offered poor soundstaging. Very strong clamp was also an issue (sorry to mention but it was really a dealbreaker itself). Very midbassy and veiled sound... I cannot recommend this to anyone who wants to stay awake for more than 5 minutes (I was shocked that I actually started falling asleep with these headphones after a minute... I thought it's impossible when listening to music with headphones). I cannot understand how anyone could even think about comparing HD650 to LCD-2... It's a different galaxy or maybe even dimension

7) Audio-technica AD900 and Shure 1440 - superbright, very artificial-sounding, absolutely underwhelming and dont want me to talk more about them... Horrible headphones!

 

=======================================================================



I somewhere posted more in-depth notes I think... Will try to find them.

Oh - IMHO IMHO IMHO IMHO IMHO 

Awesome! Thanks for sharing! This post even furthur excited me next month when a I can get my Annie's (which were claimed to sound very similar but not 100% similar to K712 Pro) xD

 

[Evshrug]

... Add a certain, pretty wide gap here...

8.Bose Tri-Ports and one of their on-ear models
I just heard these at work in-depth (these are our "work" earphones, for some reason), and it astonishes me that this brand could be so visible and apparently popular. Opinion aside, these are obviously very colored and dark, strong bass that is oversmooth and wools over the recessed mids and treble. The on-ears have a little better balance, but still the house sound seems to be designed to produce background music. IMO, you get better sound from $14 Koss clip-ons, if you're buying headphones to listen to music.

I am willing to answer anyone's questions more in-depth... Feel free to ask. I've heard some mid-fi headphones as well (like DT880, Q701, HD600, HD650 etc.).

Ok, now that I'm done expressing my shock (and kindof bringing Bose up for amusement considering their price:value), I'd appreciate if you'd elaborate on the K712 vs DT880... What did you mean by "rather bad soundstage", could you elaborate? I understand the soundstage isn't as wide, but as far as positional imaging goes, can you hear/feel where different instruments are from each other (when the recording does not just kindof plop different recorded tracks together during the mastering phase)?

 

[pdrm360]

   
Wow, very good question, love it! 

 
 
Basically, one must stress that audio and headphones especially are all very subjective... There is no best headphone. There are only headphones that YOU find better and therefore it's always good to state why. I would say that I rate neutrality very high, comfort follows and soundstaging is likely the third aspect I am looking for. I must also stress that I am not a basshead but still if I don't hear enough bass from headphones, they fail to impress me enough. It's not about hearing bass all the time - it's about hearing instruments and voices in a realistic way.
 
=======================================================================
 
Ok, if I do not take comfort into account, it would go like this:
 
1) AKG K712 Pro - if you have the money, skip everything else and go for these...
 
... add certain gap here...
 
2a) Beyedynamic DT880 - really neutral and good sounding headphones, except the artificial treble peak. If you are willing to EQ the 7-10khz down, these are definitely the second best recommendation. Their soundstage is not as good as with Q701 or K712 Pro though.
 
2b) Sennheiser HD600 - if you are not willing to EQ the DT880, I would most probably go for these. They are very natural sounding... Not the fastest, the most expansive or suited for detail-heads but natural. Their bass do not reach very low, you have to go for DT880 or K712 Pro if you want deep bass. But their very mild midbass emphasis and forgiving nature makes them good for almost every genre.
 
3) AKG Q701 - Their soundstage is great (really, in comparison to DT880 and HD600) but the overall sound signature lacks bass - that makes many instruments and vocals as well sound unnatural. Their 2khz also makes vocals sound shouty and a bit sibilant. They are a bit plasticky sounding, more so than DT880 or HD600. Still, in comparison to other headphones and considering their price, they are a quite good option.
 
... add certain gap here...
 
4) Audio Technica AD1000 and Shure 1840 - both offer good soundstaging and light and airy sound but seriously lack deeper bass to be called neutral. Both are also over-trebled (AD1000 more). My opinion? Definitely skip them, not worth the money. Q701 can be had cheaper and offer a similar sound signature and soundstaging. Though I haven't spent as much time with them as with the first 4 headphones in this list (which I liked the most).
 
5) Sennheiser HD598 (or modded HD558) - surprisingly versatile and almost neutral headphones - it's their strongest feature. Technically not on the level of headphones above but yeah, they are both very pleasing and I would gladly recommend them to anyone - very comfortable, versatile sound signature, quite good soundstage, low price...
 
... add certain gap here...
 
6) Sennheiser HD650 -  I was told that there are many different-sounding HD650s but I don't really care. I listened to them on a fast and neutral amplifier (Concerto) but they were very slow and veiled and offered poor soundstaging. Very strong clamp was also an issue (sorry to mention but it was really a dealbreaker itself). Very midbassy and veiled sound... I cannot recommend this to anyone who wants to stay awake for more than 5 minutes (I was shocked that I actually started falling asleep with these headphones after a minute... I thought it's impossible when listening to music with headphones). I cannot understand how anyone could even think about comparing HD650 to LCD-2... It's a different galaxy or maybe even dimension
 
7) Audio-technica AD900 and Shure 1440 - superbright, very artificial-sounding, absolutely underwhelming and dont want me to talk more about them... Horrible headphones!
 
 
=======================================================================

 
 
I somewhere posted more in-depth notes I think... Will try to find them.
 
Oh - IMHO IMHO IMHO IMHO IMHO 

 
Thanks for sharing that, but to me if I do not take comfort into account: 
HD800 > LCD2 = HD700 > HE-500 > HD650 = HD600 > HE-400 = K712 > HD598
 
and SQ + Comfort (IMHO):
HD800 > HD700 > LCD2 > HE-500 = HD650 = HD600 > K712 > HE-400 > HD598

 

[Muinarc]

... add certain gap here...

6) Sennheiser HD650 - I was told that there are many different-sounding HD650s but I don't really care. I listened to them on a fast and neutral amplifier (Concerto) but they were very slow and veiled and offered poor soundstaging. Very strong clamp was also an issue (sorry to mention but it was really a dealbreaker itself). Very midbassy and veiled sound... I cannot recommend this to anyone who wants to stay awake for more than 5 minutes (I was shocked that I actually started falling asleep with these headphones after a minute... I thought it's impossible when listening to music with headphones). I cannot understand how anyone could even think about comparing HD650 to LCD-2... It's a different galaxy or maybe even dimension


=======================================================================



I somewhere posted more in-depth notes I think... Will try to find them.

Oh - IMHO IMHO IMHO IMHO IMHO

Thanks for sharing that, but to me if I do not take comfort into account: 

HD800 > LCD2 = HD700 > HE-500 > HD650 = HD600 > HE-400 = K712 > HD598

Yet there it is, someone comparing the HD650 to the LCD-2


I agree with you though emertxe, I have no idea how someone could compare the K712 to the HD650 as above.... if you like the AKG house sound and K712 (which I do)....you probably wont like the HD650 (which I don't).

 

[emertxe]

 

Ok, now that I'm done expressing my shock (and kindof bringing Bose up for amusement considering their price:value), I'd appreciate if you'd elaborate on the K712 vs DT880... What did you mean by "rather bad soundstage", could you elaborate? I understand the soundstage isn't as wide, but as far as positional imaging goes, can you hear/feel where different instruments are from each other (when the recording does not just kindof plop different recorded tracks together during the mastering phase)?

 
Well, I was definitely more impressed by Q701 and K712 Pro as far as soundstaging goes... These are the only mid-fi cans I've heard so far that can really show some depth. DT880 definitely failed to deliver an illusion of stage in front of me. Soundstage width or height are also not exceptional, AKGs also better here. As far as imaging goes, I would say on par with AKGs from my limited experience. Definitely do not consider me as a mid-fi specialist... I could very well overlook something
 
 
Quote:

   
Thanks for sharing that, but to me if I do not take comfort into account: 
 
HD800 > LCD2 = HD700 > HE-500 > HD650 = HD600 > HE-400 = K712 > HD598

 
Could you answer any of these questions regarding HE-500 vs K712 Pro?
 
1) Which of them clamp harder? I am quite sensitive to it and find K712 Pro clamp a bit too much to my liking already... (I am too adjusted to HD800's nearly zero clamp). How do you find both comfortwise?
 
2) Which one is darker, K712 Pro or He-500? I find K712 Pro a bit artificially veiled, there is too much bass going on to my liking... Treble is present enough but is overshadowed by the bass with AKGs. That's why I am asking.
 
3) Which one's soundstage is wider? I guess depth is not exceptional with neither but width is the most important to me... (there are more aspects of course but width is what I am curious about right now)
 
Thanks in advance!

 

[pdrm360]

Yet there it is, someone comparing the HD650 to the LCD-2


I agree with you though emertxe, I have no idea how someone could compare the K712 to the HD650 as above.... if you like the AKG house sound and K712 (which I do)....you probably wont like the HD650 (which I don't).

 
To me, the better headphones are that I spend more time using them.

 

[emertxe]

   
To me, the better headphones are that I spend more time using them.

 
I guess the SR-009 perform quite well. Still, my HD558 are getting more listening time so... 

 

 

[pdrm360]

   
Could you answer any of these questions regarding HE-500 vs K712 Pro?
 
1) Which of them clamp harder? I am quite sensitive to it and find K712 Pro clamp a bit too much to my liking already... (I am too adjusted to HD800's nearly zero clamp). How do you find both comfortwise?
 
2) Which one is darker, K712 Pro or He-500? I find K712 Pro a bit artificially veiled, there is too much bass going on to my liking... Treble is present enough but is overshadowed by the bass with AKGs. That's why I am asking.
 
3) Which one's soundstage is wider? I guess depth is not exceptional with neither but width is the most important to me... (there are more aspects of course but width is what I am curious about right now)
 
Thanks in advance!

 
1) In case of comfort only (IMO): HD700 > HD650 = HD600 > HD800 > K712 > HE-400 > LCD2 = HE-500
 
2) To me He-500 is darker but at the same time it's more clear with more details.
 
3) I like the AKGs soundstage. 

 

[Evshrug]

pdrm360,
Different folks/different strokes I guess, I would categorize the HE-400 almost as a very nice gimmick headphone, rather than an option for reference headphone in their private collection. I heard a pair with Velour pads, on loan for a week where I forced myself to spend many hours testing/analyzing them, and while they had their good points, I wouldn't buy them because they made the lead singer in several songs sound like background vocals compared to instruments residing in the FR peaks taking prominence. May not bother others as much, but that was what kept me from getting excited about them.

emertxe,
I saw you didn't like the AD900, but have you heard the AD700? I'm not saying you'd like them, probably not in fact at your level of progress, but you can get them for like $80 (or less?) and they have soundstage comparable to Q701s, heck I have to experiment with amping to get a frontal image as out front with the Q701 as much as the AD700 plugged straight into one of my surround processors. Another mid-fi option with great soundstage (and low amping requirements) is Sony's MA900, they have a sound signature like a more refined HD598 but with the addition of probably the best soundstage depth and width I've heard. Still, I prefer the K712 because it is more lively and has better FR extension, but the MA900 impressed me.

 

[pdrm360]

pdrm360,
Different folks/different strokes I guess, I would categorize the HE-400 almost as a very nice gimmick headphone, rather than an option for reference headphone in their private collection. I heard a pair with Velour pads, on loan for a week where I forced myself to spend many hours testing/analyzing them, and while they had their good points, I wouldn't buy them because they made the lead singer in several songs sound like background vocals compared to instruments residing in the FR peaks taking prominence. May not bother others as much, but that was what kept me from getting excited about them.

emertxe,
I saw you didn't like the AD900, but have you heard the AD700? I'm not saying you'd like them, probably not in fact at your level of progress, but you can get them for like $80 (or less?) and they have soundstage comparable to Q701s, heck I have to experiment with amping to get a frontal image as out front with the Q701 as much as the AD700 plugged straight into one of my surround processors. Another mid-fi option with great soundstage (and low amping requirements) is Sony's MA900, they have a sound signature like a more refined HD598 but with the addition of probably the best soundstage depth and width I've heard. Still, I prefer the K712 because it is more lively and has better FR extension, but the MA900 impressed me.

 
Yep, the HE-400 is a very nice headphone but not for all type of music. 

 

[emertxe]

   
1) In case of comfort only (IMO): HD700 > HD650 = HD600 > HD800 > K712 > HE-400 > LCD2 = HE-500
 
2) To me He-500 is darker but at the same time it's more clear with more details.
 
3) I like the AKGs soundstage. 

 
Wow, interesting to see that HD6xx beat HD800 in terms of comfort for you o_O
 
LCD-2 are very bad comfortwise... And yeah, there are so many people who find HE-500 just as uncomfortable... Ok, so I am going to skip them most probably.
 

emertxe,
I saw you didn't like the AD900, but have you heard the AD700? I'm not saying you'd like them, probably not in fact at your level of progress, but you can get them for like $80 (or less?) and they have soundstage comparable to Q701s, heck I have to experiment with amping to get a frontal image as out front with the Q701 as much as the AD700 plugged straight into one of my surround processors. Another mid-fi option with great soundstage (and low amping requirements) is Sony's MA900, they have a sound signature like a more refined HD598 but with the addition of probably the best soundstage depth and width I've heard. Still, I prefer the K712 because it is more lively and has better FR extension, but the MA900 impressed me.

 
AD700 anytime over AD900 but their cups are too shallow... My ears touching drivers all the time (the same with AD900 and AD1000 as well).
 
HD558 modded are the ones I would get at that price range... But that's just me.

 

[pdrm360]

   
Wow, interesting to see that HD6xx beat HD800 in terms of comfort for you o_O
 
LCD-2 are very bad comfortwise... And yeah, there are so many people who find HE-500 just as uncomfortable... Ok, so I am going to skip them most probably.
 
 
AD700 anytime over AD900 but their cups are too shallow... My ears touching drivers all the time (the same with AD900 and AD1000 as well).
 
HD558 modded are the ones I would get at that price range... But that's just me.

 
All the Sennheiser HDs are comfortable (HD6xx  260g  vs. HD800 330g).  

 

[tdockweiler]

I wonder why nobody was comparing the Annie to the HD-800? Is the K712 really that much better than the Annie?
 
I think you guys put too much trust in those Headroom graphs compared to the HD-800 and someone had to hype it up

 
No way the bass of the K712 is as forward as shown on the (other) Headroom graph. Maybe I will know soon and eat my words.
 
This one looks more convincing (just the low bass):
 
AKG must be doing some serious magic to make that old graph have that kind of bass. Totally neutral bass down to 10hz huh. Has to be a totally re-tuned driver, but they both look the same.
 

 
- Party Pooper
 
(still really want to hear this!!)

 

[emertxe]

  I wonder why nobody was comparing the Annie to the HD-800? Is the K712 really that much better than the Annie?
 
I think you guys put too much trust in those Headroom graphs compared to the HD-800 and someone had to hype it up

 
No way the bass of the K712 is as forward as shown on the (other) Headroom graph. Maybe I will know soon and eat my words.
 
This one looks more convincing (just the low bass):
 
AKG must be doing some serious magic to make that old graph have that kind of bass. Totally neutral bass down to 10hz huh. Has to be a totally re-tuned driver, but they both look the same.
 

 
- Party Pooper
 
(still really want to hear this!!)

 
Yes, the bass of K712 Pro is as forward as shown on the HD800 vs K712 Pro graph... I have both headphones right here and they really sound that way. Both HD800 and K712 Pro provide similar type of bass - you just get more of it with K712 Pro, significantly more. HD800's is better quality wise, of course.