[RexAeterna]

X4 mofos!

i find the bass perfect on the DF's. hook them up to a powerful amp with low output impedance and properly direct-coupled(lot of direct coupled designs tend to roll off the low to sub-bass. that's why lot amps back in the 80's were very high bandwidth design going from DC to 170,000hz at half it's given output to prevent roll-off and stay flat at full output from 20hz-20,000hz with very little to none negative feedback).

not just amp but high voltage source as well people always forget. any professional balanced audio interface or mixer will provide a +4dbu gain(1.23v RMS) off it's balanced outputs. that higher voltage will feed higher voltages through the preamp(which is already high voltage to drive the power amp. preamp avg 1.2-1.5v rms and can deliver max output of 5v to allow the power amp to reach maximum dynamic headroom if needed). the DF was design around high gain professional mixer boards and equipment and everyone knows professional equipment fellows atleast the +4dbu gain rule. sometimes it as high as +10dbu(maximum output is 7v rms) but only used for very high powered,power amps and powered mixers. all consumer gear and equipment is -10dbv which is well under 1v rms. there is about 11db difference between -10dbv(consumer) and +4dbu(professional).

 

[RexAeterna]

the DF soundstage manages in a small way to come across as speaker-like.

i think this a lot when i listen to the DF. sounds like a pair of nice near-field monitors strapped to your ears. but the DF's were actually designed in the first place to replace speakers in certain parts of the studio which is why it went through multiple head-dummy testing and positioning. AKG back then was highly respected then for their innovation. that's another reason why they stopped the production of them is cause the insane cost of the constant testing and keep each driver batch perfectly matched. i'm just making a rough guess here but for the cost of 1 DF nowadays to be made as it was(or sextetts) would cost as much as more then several akg 701's. they skipped innovation for cheaper production cost.

 

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[Adda]

The graph I shared earlier, was measured off an EMU 0202, so that graph shows an underpowered DF as well.
Aren't you just dieing to know what happens to the K250 and DF with the right amp?, as you say your self:
 
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Originally Posted by vid /img/forum/go_quote.gif
 
Although, if the DF is underpowered and, when powered correctly, has good bass, surely the K 250 would act the same way, considering they seem almost as difficult to drive. Which, then, would have better bass when driven correctly?
 
Since I'm comparing these two cans, I can't speculate on whether the DF has good bass (or good anything) when amped properly, since I also don't know how the K 250 acts when properly driven.

 
It's hard to predict how the K250 would respond to amping, is there any info about how the K241 behaves out of a weak vs. strong source? my GUESS is that the K250 would be similar in this regard.

 

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[lejaz]

The 0202 has a very weak amp....even weaker than the 0404 I think, which I use as DAC. The maximum power of the 0404 is 20 mW....that's the max, with a low impedance phone. I assume. I think the 0202 is 15mW max....at least the newer version is....the 0204, AFAIK. The 0404 has an output impedance of 22ohms. The LD mkV amp will put out 187 mW into a 300 ohm phone, 500 mW into a 32ohm phone. That's looks like 25 times the power output of the 0404, if I understand correctly! As far as voltage, I haven't a clue.
 
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What are the specs on the 0202?
 
Deep compared the DF and K 241 briefly here. He reported few differences (well, subtle ones anyway), similar efficiency, 241 with a bit more bottom end. His 241 had no foam discs, so I assume the difference in bass would've been slightly bigger with them – but at the same time it puts into question whether the similarities would've remained.
 
My 250 has less bass than my 241, even though they give out about equal loudness. Not sure if that's individual variance or something else.

 

 

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[RexAeterna]

The only bits of knowledge regarding my amp I know are '3.0 Vrms' and '+12.0 dBu max'. There's specs for the opamp here, rating it for 600 ohms. These numbers mean nothing to me, though.

The only bit I can match on specs for the 0202 and 0404 is the dBu rating, which is +8.7 for the 0202 and +14.2 for the 0404.

The bass extension on the pair of K 340 I had off this amp was down to 50 Hz on the level of 1 kHz. A bit better than 70 Hz for the K 250 and 200 Hz for the DF.  The dynamic drivers on the K 340 are only some 400 ohms, though.

(I'm not looking to buy a new amp as such, but it's more likely that I'll scour the world for a suitable second-hand receiver at some point.)

what amp was it again? instead of the headphone out get pair of RCA to TRS adapter and run it off the pre-outs and you should defiantly get extra power. that's the quick and easy way to do it. if you don't mind do it your self you can make a simple project box like this(i did this in paint like months ago)

to use off of speaker outputs but first have to make sure your amp has a common ground(most amps do but double check just in case) or you'll pretty much kill the amp. the project box and everything i got simply at my local radioshack for less then 40 bucks(depending on parts of choice of course). if not i would try the pre-outs first. you'll get better results then using the headphone jack.

 

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[RexAeterna]

exposed wire kind? sorry but i don't fellow. you mean the headphones or the amp? i listed that diagram if you don't want to rewire the headphones itself. you can make a ghetto female 1/4'' TRS jack to bare wire as well where you have the 2 negative wires soldered on the ground of the jack and the 2 negatives will be acting as a double common ground.


you should be getting a butt load of volume and gain from speaker outputs so i'm guessing something maybe is wrong. 600ohms for any power amp is walk in the park since they're basically voltage sources and will have maximum control over the headphone better overall impedance curve since speaker outputs on well built amplifier would easily be low as 0ohms on the speaker outs.

i get crap load of volume for my 240DF off of speaker outputs and they're rated at 88db@1v and 600ohm nominal@1khz and i barely touch the knob on my preamp when i'm using my power amps to drive headphones.

 

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[RexAeterna]

allllrighty then. got you now. it should be no big deal using bare wire. you don't need anything like like banana connectors or spades. to be honest in my opinion bare wire is best way to go.

with the box there will be speaker posts already of your choice and any 5-way binding post will except multiple connectors and not just bare wire. you can make a ghetto female 1/4'' TRS to bare wire adapter for testing if want. if you can't solder you can ask a local tech or friend but i would suggest try to learn on your own if you can. it's not very difficult once you get use to it. for now though what you can do is try the pre-outs on your amp if you want and see how the results go.all you need is male rca to female 3.5mm/6.3mm cable or you can get a female rca to female 3.5mm/6.3mm if you want to use your own rca cables or need the headroom in the length department.

 

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[Deep Funk]

Quote:

The only bits of knowledge regarding my amp I know are '3.0 Vrms' and '+12.0 dBu max'. There's specs for the opamp here, rating it for 600 ohms. These numbers mean nothing to me, though.
 
The only bit I can match on specs for the 0202 and 0404 is the dBu rating, which is +8.7 for the 0202 and +14.2 for the 0404.
 
The bass extension on the pair of K 340 I had off this amp was down to 50 Hz on the level of 1 kHz. A bit better than 70 Hz for the K 250 and 200 Hz for the DF.

 The dynamic drivers on the K 340 are only some 400 ohms, though.
 
(I'm not looking to buy a new amp as such, but it's more likely that I'll scour the world for a suitable second-hand receiver at some point.)

Just do whatever you wrote in that last sentence, check if the headphone out is clean and if everything works. Go vintage for some gems will astound you (not to mention their weight)...
 
 

 

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