[Steve Eddy]

I've seen that done before, recently, I wonder where? 

I don't know, but the son of a bitch ought to be taken out and shot.

se

 

[Steve Eddy]

Dielectric Absorption could add nonlinearity, especially for dual slope when using a switch, so I used teflon caps.

There isn't any nonlinearity to be traced to DA. This is a topic that's been roiling over on diyAudio for the past week or so. DA was turned into a big scary audiophile Bogey Man after Walt Jung and Richard Marsh published an article about capacitors in Audio magazine back in the '80s or '90s. Yes, DA can cause problems in certain circuits, but there's no nonlinear component to it.

se

 

[castleofargh]

  Reading this thread is better than Monty Python...

if you're looking for the best audio, know that the holy grail is in the castle of aaaaaarrrrrrrrrrrrrrggggggggggggggggghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh..........

 

[Steve Eddy]

if you're looking for the best audio, know that the holy grail is in the castle of aaaaaarrrrrrrrrrrrrrggggggggggggggggghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh..........

Pay no attention to this guy, folks. He's just a harmless little bunny rabbit.

se

 

[MacacoDoSom]

I don't see TV anymore... I just sit in front of my PC waiting (anxiously) for the next episode/reply...
 
(listening to some crappy music in my super duper HI-FI, Turntable-> ADC->DSD-DAC->valve amp (still warming up)... no RED book, no EQ, no speakers...

???)

 

[StanD]

There isn't any nonlinearity to be traced to DA. This is a topic that's been roiling over on diyAudio for the past week or so. DA was turned into a big scary audiophile Bogey Man after Walt Jung and Richard Marsh published an article about capacitors in Audio magazine back in the '80s or '90s. Yes, DA can cause problems in certain circuits, but there's no nonlinear component to it.

se

Remember I didn't say audio, It was for an integrator where a switch would  close across the capictor to rapidly discharge it. This would cause a small nonlinearity in the A/D conversion.

 

[ib1dance]

Great Thread.
 
Belief is such a inferior thought process compared to understanding. 

 

[Steve Eddy]

Remember I didn't say audio, It was for an integrator where a switch would  close across the capictor to rapidly discharge it. This would cause a small nonlinearity in the A/D conversion.

Yeah, in the conversion. DA itself is a linear phenomenon.

se

 

[Steve Eddy]

Great Thread.

Belief is such a inferior thought process compared to understanding. 

Yeah. But belief can be quite comforting, which I guess is why it's so popular. And then we have our vanities and egos to contend with as well.

se

 

[StanD]

I knew I could count on @analogsurviver to concot a story. I didn't say use teflon, there are many other tyes well suited for audio that are not expensive and can be bought in small quantities on the Internet. I wonder if he's rubbing his teflon caps as per his post.

 

[analogsurviver]

  Remember I didn't say audio, It was for an integrator where a switch would  close across the capictor to rapidly discharge it. This would cause a small nonlinearity in the A/D conversion.

Yes, I remember it was for an integrator, nonlinearity, etc - which is correct. It is critical to have a good capacitor in this application.
 
The same thing happens with audio. Why would irregular behaviour of capacitors be important for digital only ?
 
I did post something that might once be possible to prove scientifically - yet nobody replied to that particular sentence, even as a idea - or , more prevalent on this thread, mocking of an idea. It (in)directly involves capacitors in audio. 

 

[analogsurviver]

  I knew I could count on @analogsurviver to concot a story. I didn't say use teflon, there are many other tyes well suited for audio that are not expensive and can be bought in small quantities on the Internet. I wonder if he's rubbing his teflon caps as per his post.

Now - I might be tempted to get my # 000000000001 teflon capacitor. Just for the kicks of having one. To be able to rub it ...
 
I am using internet to obtain other tyes well suited for audio that can be bought in small quantities. It is my #1 use for the internet - from the day 1 .

 

[StanD]

  Yes, I remember it was for an integrator, nonlinearity, etc - which is correct. It is critical to have a good capacitor in this application.
 
The same thing happens with audio. Why would irregular behaviour of capacitors be important for digital only ?
 
I did post something that might once be possible to prove scientifically - yet nobody replied to that particular sentence, even as a idea - or , more prevalent on this thread, mocking of an idea. It (in)directly involves capacitors in audio.

A/D conversion is very different from amping an audio signal. This involves reseting an integrator with a semiconductor switch (fet) in a few nS where the DA byproduct depends on the amount of voltage discharged and how that compares to the integration period which varies and thus creates a nonlinear effect. This is not the classic slow charging phenomena but instead manifests in much smaller values affecting bit level measurements. I learned about this form the hard way, in a Lab prototyping and designing circuits.
One does not short out a capacitor with a switch when passing audio through it.
What do you mean by capacitors and digital? The only real use in that scenario is bypassing power traces on the PCB, other than related circuits like multivibrators and oscillators.
Perhaps what you posted didn't get answered for good reasons, perhaps it didn't make sense.

 

[ib1dance]

Yeah. But belief can be quite comforting, which I guess is why it's so popular. And then we have our vanities and egos to contend with as well.

se

 
Yes belief can be quite comforting and provides hope to many. Yet self understanding ( Biology; Evolution;Ecology;Astronomy etc)  can provide insight and hope that there is so much more we have yet to understand about our existence.
 
Vanities and ego's can easily be mitigated with scientific evidence (For example, all the observed and measured evidence suggests I am an animal.All be it with a very active imagination) .  But, try & explain that to a irrational ego maniac whom thinks he's a Deity, like the leaders of some country’s.
 
They don't take it very well .
 
Apologies for going of topic a little.

 

[analogsurviver]

  A/D conversion is very different from amping an audio signal. This involves reseting an integrator with a semiconductor switch (fet) in a few nS where the DA byproduct depends on the amount of voltage discharged and how that compares to the integration period which varies and thus creates a nonlinear effect. This is not the classic slow charging phenomena but instead manifests in much smaller values affecting bit level measurements. I learned about this form the hard way, in a Lab prototyping and designing circuits.
One does not short out a capacitor with a switch when passing audio through it.
What do you mean by capacitors and digital? The only real use in that scenario is bypassing power traces on the PCB, other than related circuits like multivibrators and oscillators.
Perhaps what you posted didn't get answered for good reasons, perhaps it didn't make sense.

Yes, I realize this nonlinearity is Dialectric Adsorption related - and the same is true in audio. If analog stages want at least to approximate 120+ dB dynamic range of better digital, they can not allow themselves to use anything but premium capacitors. The times are of course longer - but I did post an audio  preamp with nS response yesterday IIRC - where the capacitors are stretched to their limits.
 
Yes, the scenario you mentioned is a correct one.
 
There is a *slight* chance that what I posted seems so beyond believable because of a very simple reason - very few went that far to be able to see/hear the problem.
You certainly can not get there with anything available for purchase.