[drum2live]

I just joined this forum to address a great deal of misinformation regarding the Teac UD-503.  There has been all kinds of things flying around different forums and as a former Electronics Tech and currently an Electronic Engineer I would like to cover these issues as I have a UD-503 and I have given it a thorough physical examination.  I do not recommend tearing one apart just for the pure hell of it.  Listen to it.  If it's not your cup of tea then acquire something else.  I tore mine down because I simply could not believe some of what I was reading.
 
>THE TEAC UD-503 LACKS REGULATED POWER SUPPLIES IN SOME AREAS:  False.  Everything on this is regulated.  Some regulation circuits cannot be seen from the top side of the board, some cannot be seen from the bottom side of the board and it really takes a view of BOTH sides and some tracing to figure out what is going on.  The statements regarding this are ludicrous.  $30 DVD players can't even go without regulation of SOME sort.  The highly delicate IC's would fry.  They could never take the ripple.  Yes, the UD-503 is regulated.
 
>THE PARTS QUALITY IN THE UD-503 IS MARGINAL OR POOR:  Again, FALSE!  No, the parts quality is not "Top Shelf", but nothing at this price point is going to be.  The innards of the UD-503 contain excellent DAC's, XMOS, receiver chips, Chemi-Con and Nichicon Muse electrolytics, conductive polymer solid caps and yes, SMD resistors and SMD capacitors. As much as I hate working with SMD parts, they do cost less for the manufacturer AND when properly used are superior to "through hole" parts.  The SMD resistors and capacitors are virtually as non-inductive as you can get which is precisely what you want in a digital device.  As a hardcore audiophile and Engineer I was actually impressed by the guts.  The parts quality is actually pretty damn good.
 
>THE WIRING IS A MESS:  Well, when modular boards are used, this is going to happen.  Functional construction will require the use of wire.  The boards have to make contact with one another somehow.  Should TEAC have used in-chassis Blue Tooth? (I doubt any such thing exists but what else should they have done?)  I have seen much worse.  I have seen equipment that looked like a rat's nest and sounded like heaven.  The internals were not executed so one could sit in one spot all day and admire the precision execution.  It is designed to listen to and if needed, to work on.  TEAC did an adequate job with the wire routing.
 
>MODDERS IN CHINA AND HONG KONG ARE ADDING REGULATORS AND IMPROVING PARTS:  Well good for them.  If they wanted a more expensive DAC they should have bought one.  They were doing the SAME THING with the 501.  When looking at the circuit boards, the 503 executes it's voltage regulation in such a manner that it does not jump out at you and scream REGULATION HERE!!!!, where the 501 did.  The regulation our Asian friends are adding now is about part improvement and regulating branch circuits which are already regulated, but they are adding another; either because they don't know or because they think it will be better, which one I don't know.  You can add more regulators and better parts to damn near anything if you really want to.  When translated I have read that stuff along with "I hear a difference".  Of course you do; but is it a difference or an improvement?
 
>SOUND QUALITY:  I have heard some rumblings about sound.  I will explain my experience like this:  Firstly, I have a $4K analog rig.  Secondly, I had, before the TEAC UD-503 a 2015 Matrix Mini-i Pro that had been extensively modded.  Mundorf caps, Elna Silmic II caps, M caps, discreet regulators, better transformer.  This DAC is supposedly all that and a bag of chips at $520 distributor direct.  After I modded it I could not believe the sound.  It was so good I seriously questioned if the TEAC would be better.  I have a solid grip on Hi Res.  I have been messing with it intensely for 5 years.  After receiving the TEAC and listening, I kicked the turbo-charged Matrix out the door.  Believe me; if the TEAC didn't blow my socks off I would have sent it back.  It's still here.
 
>WHAT'S THE CONDITION OF YOUR COMPUTER?  While using the Matrix, I discovered my ATX PC computer build had some room to go, even though I thought I had covered everything.  I added some filters, added better quality RAM (like for gaming-it sounds better), I installed a PCIe USB card which used a silicon oscillator for my digital out, I replaced my good quality aftermarket power supply with an even better one (read reviews and observe ripple specs).  All of this created an improvement that was not subtle.  Big improvement.  For Hi Res Audio, a computer is not a computer.  Certain things do matter and to a massive extent.  I don't care about asynchronous and reclocking or whatever.  If your computer is not up to snuff your DAC will reveal it and the TEAC is good enough it will reveal quite a bit.
 
The bottom line is some people are going to make claims about stuff they don't understand.  Some people may even make claims about one product to make them feel better about their own.  Some people are just going to complain.  If it makes your ears happy, then the company did it right.
 
That's all I have!!

 

[mainaman]

After owning Teac UD-501,NAD M51 and HQ Reference i am expecting a delivery of an UD-503 next week.I still have suspicions about the analogue putput stage and the power supply and regulations,i hope the new features are not at the expense of the critical engineering.Also there is even less space for modding.I needed a DAC with analogue inputs,so the preamp implementation will be important as well.I own a Power Inspired AC Regen,an active USB cable and a Breeze Audio DU-U8 USB to SPDIF converter,which has been outstanding,but the Teac does DSD only over USB.My PC is a very lousy music server,so i will probably buy an Intona USB isolator as well.

The 501 needed more than a week to break-in,so i may not be able to post impressions before February.

 

[occamsrazor]

http://everythingaudionetwork.blogspot.com/2016/01/audiophile-dac-review-teac-ud-503-da.html

 

[music_man]

well, drum2live maybe there is not much room for upgrading the ud-503. there was a lot of room for upgrading the ud-501 if approached correctly. with super regulators, pilson xformers, vishay, musicap buffering on output, different op-amps etc. etc. it was not about just buying  a better dac. i personally feel i put this thing up there with the diamond dac v. yes, i will go that far. that is my feeling what i hear not anyone elses. it went from an okay dac to a cost no object one. one thing i will have to say is the ud-501 had a more rigid chassis but the ud-503 has the nice feet. a tossup there i guess. of course i added feet to the ud-501 anyways. i also have a carbon fiber plate in the bottom of it. it is way better than the stock ud-503. from what you say i am not sure what could be done with the ud-503. there was a lot to work with in the ud-501. i am not really in the market for more dacs just like to play around. i am not using the ud-503 right now. where i would use it as you say i would use a better dac. the ud-501 was just an open book for upgrading. it is a decent dac at the price. nad,mcintosh etc. do not offer 4x dsd if that is what one wishes for.there is a secret about the ud-501 though i think i had mentioned once. over usb there is a hidden option for 8x dsd but it is very complicated to achieve. i am currently using it at that with no errors. scope says it is there. not sure because it is not on the chips spec sheet. unles that was a oem version for teac because they are big.
 
so all in all i think the ud-503 is a nice choice for the money. there are better dacs. there are worse dacs. from what is mentioned i am not sure what could be upgraded if one wanted to. i don't see how it blew you away but everyone hears differently. there are certainly better dacs. i am not stupid either. the diamond dac v is miles better than my ud-501 but the difference from what it was stock is enormous. better than the ud-503 by miles. better than mcintosh,nad even ps audio. i know what i said in the previous paragraph but no it is not a $65,000 dac. i do feel i would try to sell it for $10,000 though. i mean not actually sell it for that much but it is at that price point in sq.
 
the ud-503 is decent but i have much better around here so i just don't have a need for it right now. i will say the head amp is much better than the ud-501. still not nearly as good as top offereings form ray samuels or whatever. i am not sorry i bought it to try simply because it was not a fortune. i am by no means bashing it. it should suffice for many people. it is worth what it costs. just not the breakthrough the ud-501 was. i would say stock the ud-501 was worth twice what it cost given the competition at that time and modded it was 10x what it cost. if you like the sound and this is your price point i have no issue with it.
 
as for a rats nest. that does not affect the sound of course. however they could of in fact done a cleaner job even with modular boards. like wire ties for starters and just plain better routing. i got over that though. it is not a big deal. or a deal breaker. interestingly music-direct is not carrying it. i am not sure if they know anything we don't. or if it was simply  amatter of logistics or something.
 
all in all if anyone likes it, it is certainly worth the money. i just don't think it knocks anything out of the park but to be fair i have dacs here that are 60x it's price. i just thought the ud-501 was an interesting platform for upgrades and it was nice to tinker with. apparently with the ud-503 what you see is what you get. which is in fact fine. i fully agree adding regulation to regulation could in fact negatively affect sound. in the future i do not plan to do this again. i will purchase the performance i want out of the box. as i usually have. i still have a soldering iron burn from it. well, i mean one of many scars. you are not a true tech until you burn yourself 3 times but if you burn yourself 4 times you are a true idiot so they say. i am a true idiot. said so myself. well, just because i wasted a lot of hours on the ud-501 but heck it was fun.
 
i think the idsd is actually much better than the ud-503 sans the fancy oled display. thats just my two cents though. use your own ears. just get it somewhere with a return policy an dif you are in the market for it in the first place you have nothing to lose.
 
i do revise what i had originally said though. i find no fault with it's build or sound at this point. it is just a low priced chinese dac. there is much worse.....and much better. it sounds alright. as for it's longevity i couldn't say.
 
for the record drum2live, i was a licensed technician but had worked as a audio engineer for 40+ years. now retired and have time to do these silly things. i am also well versed in electronic design and engineering however now due to age and disability that was probably my last project. hence the burns.
 
i know this is really ot but if people could up there budget i think the real sweet spot right now is ps audio. it is at the point of diminishing returns and the price point is not ludicrous. of course i do understand it is still more than many people have. do not be ashamed at all of teacs products though. they are always great band for buck. i often used tascam products. 

 

[mainaman]

When i thought about upgrading the UD-501 it was either a new DAC or tuning the Teac.While there is more space(and scope) for modding the UD-501,it is still very tight and practically no big exotic caps are going to fit in,which is probably good news for the modder's wallet.The other issue was cost as a truly comprehensive modding could still cost more than the DAC itself.Just check the price of the Belleson regs!Would this expensive tuning elevate it to the sound quality of the DACs with five digit pricetags?Maybe,maybe not.

The NAD M51 was better,but only when a good USB to SPDIF converter was connected to its AES/EBU input.No DSD,though.

The PS DAC,which was recommended in the previous post.Is that the DirectStream one,which measured 17 bits on Stereophile and Hi-Fi News?

 

[music_man]

the caps fit. plenty of room in there. yes, the directstream. specs don''t equate sound. the high end dacs require a high res file. cheap dac's can play the neato upconversion game. i asked the owner of a well know online store why they carried the ud-501 but not the ud-503. he replied the quality wentt down the toilet. they need to uphold their reputation. perhaps he was referring tot he first 5,000 unit recall. that alone speaks volumes to me as well. that is my stance and i will maintain it. it does sound alright. better than the stock ud-501 in fact. what you see is what you get with this one. not much to mod. it's the board topology. a fancy spec converter is cool and all but sound quality matters more to me. it is really the output section of a dac that makes the difference. a redbook ladder dac can sound better than these over and over. high end dacs require a hi res file. they do not play the upconversion game. there is very little 8x dsd or even 4x dsd media. i suppose the ud-503 is worth the money. at that price point it holds it's onw. it cannot compete with 5 or 6 figure dacs obviously or the heavily modded ud-501 either. of course completely modding the ud-501 was 2 grand of parts and 20 hours of labor and i make a good salary. i would have to look at selling that thing for 10+ grand so it is not for sale of course. i do feel it is 10 grand of sound. the ud-503 fits in nicely at it's price point. regardless of it's build quality. modular boards do not have to look like that. ribbon cables are perfectly fine for data. i do have the ud-503 here. having much better dacs it is nothing impressive but an okay value. the cambridge is on sale at that price and perhaps one would look at that too. it is much beter build. don't know about it's sound. although i do know they tend to offer great value. i would take them over nad except for the master. 

 

[mainaman]

 the caps fit. plenty of room in there. yes, the directstream. specs don''t equate sound. the high end dacs require a high res file. cheap dac's can play the neato upconversion game. i asked the owner of a well know online store why they carried the ud-501 but not the ud-503. he replied the quality wentt down the toilet. they need to uphold their reputation. perhaps he was referring tot he first 5,000 unit recall. that alone speaks volumes to me as well. that is my stance and i will maintain it. it does sound alright. better than the stock ud-501 in fact. what you see is what you get with this one. not much to mod. it's the board topology. a fancy spec converter is cool and all but sound quality matters more to me. it is really the output section of a dac that makes the difference. a redbook ladder dac can sound better than these over and over. high end dacs require a hi res file. they do not play the upconversion game. there is very little 8x dsd or even 4x dsd media. i suppose the ud-503 is worth the money. at that price point it holds it's onw. it cannot compete with 5 or 6 figure dacs obviously or the heavily modded ud-501 either. of course completely modding the ud-501 was 2 grand of parts and 20 hours of labor and i make a good salary. i would have to look at selling that thing for 10+ grand so it is not for sale of course. i do feel it is 10 grand of sound. the ud-503 fits in nicely at it's price point. regardless of it's build quality. modular boards do not have to look like that. ribbon cables are perfectly fine for data. i do have the ud-503 here. having much better dacs it is nothing impressive but an okay value. the cambridge is on sale at that price and perhaps one would look at that too. it is much beter build. don't know about it's sound. although i do know they tend to offer great value. i would take them over nad except for the master. 

It is good to hear that the UD-503 sounds better than the stock UD-501,which sounded very nice with DSD,native or converted.I don't have unrealistic expectations and maybe they should have spent more money on the regulation and the output stage than frills like the upconversion board and the headphone stage.
 
About your modded 501.2 grand of parts!This should/better sound better than its Esoteric cousins.BTW,have you heard the Yggdrasil,it's the priciest DAC i can stretch to?
 
My next DAC could be a vintage one like Sony DAS-R1 or Technics X1000.

 

[dyavuz]

Can I connect a digital audio player like the Sony HR Walkman NWZ-A17 via the USB input on the UD-503? Or is the USB input only meant for computer connection?

 

[music_man]

it actually does sound similar to the esoteric grandeoso amazingly. i honestly did not expect it to go that far. just good luck. i put the best of the best parts in that thing and it paid off. the whole thing with the stock device was less than 3 grand and it performs similar to some 20 grand dacs. honestly the diamond dac is just better though. you can only hope for so much. it is not competing at that level. it is interesting though that i basically tore off the teac nameplate and put esoteric on there. if you study the stock ud-501 it is in fact laid out like a mini esoteric device. the ud-503 unfortunately is not. let's be honest they tried to cut cost in some areas on the ud-503. they saw where this or that was not really needed and did away or revised it. i do not hate the thing. i really don't. i do maintain stock for stock it does in fact sound better than the ud-501. even with redbook. which i find odd because with redbook what matters more than the conversion is the output. that is where the ud-503 is lacking. still, it does perform better stock in all aspects. i probably would not discourage nayone from getting one. at that price point i might actually recommend it. i am just concerned about failure. not only did the first 5,000 which is a lot but i see areas in there that could shorten it's life span. how long i do not know. for instance lavry's top dac has parts in an oven so they do not deviate with age. the ud-503 is the opposite. there is stuff in there that can fail. my guess is if not a lemon in the 30 day return privilege it should make it 2+ years. which by then you would want newer technology anyways. the ud-501 was a different beast. you can just look at the topology. i really do not know why they put so much money into the first one. i guess they wanted a larger profit margin the second time around. for one thing you can not dispute the chasis is more rigid.. to that effect i have a carbon fiber base plate on mine only adding to the rigidity. with dacs you do not want any vibration to them. i also have a femto clock in mine adding to the large difference. stock it was nice but the ud-503 is better. what i went and did there is no compariosn to either stock. unfortunately i do not see where to work on the ud-503. it is what it is. just leave that thing stock and enjoy it for what it is. i wish my ud-501 could do 11.2mhz but that would be  a major undertaking i am no longer up to. so mine is what it is too but it was a night and day improvement over stock. i am glad you address the fact that i have improved it to esoteric levels. i dislike when people bash or otherwise doubt me. such is the internet but i am courteous and feel credit is often due. i have seen things some people have built and i could not even attempt that when iw as once able. you can do anything you set your mind to. of course this requires some engineering skill though. still, the ud-503 i am not sure what can be done. i would like links to those chinese pages if anyone has them even though i cannot read it. i have a feeling as you said before they are actually making it worse. i cannot turn a $20 dvd player into an esoteric but i certainly could with an oppo. once again, when i was able. i am no longer tinkering with electronics due to illness. i do enjoy all the things i built over the years. i have enough to keep me plenty busy. after i trashed myself with a soldering iron i had to throw in the towel. i am not sad i had a good run.
 
no, you cannot plug a music player in the usb port unfortunately. it will only understand a computer connection. starting with the handshake and so on. it would be awesome if you could plug a network player in there but alas, you cannot. i am sure someone has a way around it but i know nothing about it as of now.
 
i am using my ud-501 in a very high end bedroom system. it holds it's own with very high end equipment in the chain. as i said there is actually a very complex way to trick it into 8x dsd. it is like a easter egg not in the script. it is so complicated though i rarely implement it. i am actually using dxd via dop which sounds great to me on this unit. this worked out very good for me because i have limited space in this room. i do not miss having a much more expensive dac at all in here. i would suggest to anyone that has the ability forego the ud-503 in lieu of a ud-501 you can mod the heck out of. if stock get the ud-503. i was very pleasantly surprised at all this. i really did not expect the outcome. i modded a lot of stuff and it mad eit beter but fell short of supercharging it. so that's the story about this thing.
 
the yggdrasil stock is a very nice dac. considerably better than the ud-503. in a different league and pric epoint. if you can afford it yes, go with it. i figure since it is the one you mentioned you like it. there are other choices. depends what you lie. it is a solid dac at the price point. i think it sounds plenty good. i do not own one but i have heard it. i do not even need to a/b to know it is better than the ud-503., plus schiit is a very nice company and a pleasure to do business with. with any of this teac stuff it is between you and the dealer mostly. esoteric is a different story. they stand behind that like a rock. the teac stuff is just mass produced chinese goods. it just so happened the ud-501 had potential. of course that voids the warranty anyways. if you look at the components in the schiit there is no comparison. depends what sound you like though.
 
for the record though i have not bashed the ud-503. i will go so far as to recommend it at it's price point. for me it did not make it into a system because this stuf is higher end. although the headphone amp is very good. i will probably end up using it on my table next to my bed to power balanced grado ps1000e. i think it is a very good combo with those. the hd800 not as well. i also love grado. many people do not. that is a take it or leave it thing. just personal preference. i have no dount the new orpheous is better lol. maybe there next one can power stats. not like hi-fi man with a plug of course i mean like stax. i doubt that though. in fact i think i will put up the ud-503 right now for tonight to see how it goes with the grados. they are what i listen to after like 2am.
 
well, i help i have been helpful to this thread. i mean no harm most importantly.

 

[oldson]

music_man
 
just curious considering your comments on the teac and Schitt's yggy dacs.
one is able to play dsd and the other not.
what is your take on dsd in general?
cheers

 

[music_man]

a better dac that does not playback dsd is still better than a lesser dac that does. i like dsd. on a good dac. there is actually much more important parts of a dac than the conversion. the conversion is important but not most important. if you have a great dac otherwise dsd often but not always sounds better in that mode.the schiit is a better dac even without dsd. i feel it sounds better than the teac at 11.2mhz. that really depends on you though. some people hate the sound of dsd. others would take a cheaper dac solely for the dsd. it is really subjective. when i get to the diamond dac level some tracks i listen dsd, some red book, some upsampled to 384khx dxd. honestly it all depends on the listener. in fact if someone went so far as to say they like the ud-503 better than the diamond dac i would not even fault them. yes, i think that would be silly but i cannot speak for others hearing. we are all unique. i know this did not really answer the question but here: mostly i prefer dsd but i have to start with a dac i like. it does not have to be as expensive as the diamond dac either. i think the direct stream even though not cheap in it's own right is a fantastic value. regardless of how it measures on a scope. i threw out scopes long ago because they do not have ears. some very old gear looks like it will fall apart if you sneeze but sounds fantastic. me personally? i am a fan of dsd. the rest of the dac has to be right though. mainly the output stage matters. that is what really makes the sound in these things. that is why i say i'd pick the schitt over the ud-503 even lacking dsd. if the schiit had it perhaps all the better. dsd is not the best source on every dac either. the most important thing to know is that all audio gear is subjective. many people hate dsd on any dac. i like the way it sounds. honestly though unfortunately we need to be looking at more expensive dacs than the ud-0503. or not. it all depends on the individual. i see some are very impressed with the ud-503. perhaps if there was a way i could improve it i might find it fantastic as well. i think they closed the book on purpose because of what people such as myself did to the ud-501. companies usually do not take kindly to that. 

 

[lashing]

Had a 503 on loan. It was much better thn the 501 I had before it. But I still wasnt overly impressed. The 503 sounds a little weak and seems to loose some low end. Just my listening tests. Nothing scientific. I disliked the 501 quite a bit and felt it harsh. The 503 I could probably live with but certainly wasn't excited about it. Needless to say I didnt buy it and still looking.

 

[music_man]

this is what i mean. i am not so popular with all audiophiles. i say everything in audio is subjective and personal preference. there is no right or wrong.i have preached this for years.
i do agree the 503 is better than the 501 stock. i dislike the topology of the 503's internals. especially since it does not easily lend it self to modifications. the 501 was an open book in that regard.
i feel my particular 501 is now a top tier dac in it's own right. you may not like it though. that is fine too. everyone hears differently.
i also agree neither is fantastic out of the box. they are both good inexpensive dacs with the 503 being somewhat better. 
seeing as i cannot mod the 503 and either stock is average i would look elsewhere.
of course many thought the 501 stock was fantastic as others do with the 503. again, that is fine.
when i got the 501 i knew the first thing i had to do was tear it down and start modding it. after just 20 minutes of listening. luckily it lended itself well to improvements. the 503 i do not see anything to redo.
therefore the 503 is not for me. it's head amp is much better than the 501. i do not use a dac for a head amp.  dedicated amps will easily out do it imo. of course for a good package on a budget i do recommend it.
mine is in a closet right now in it's shipping box. however i may try it to power my grados. just add a source and it fits nicely on the table ext to my bed.
 
there are certainly better dacs and worse ones. i feel my 501 is in a different league but that is just my opinion. many may still not like it.

 

[coli]

Very very happy that the major manufacturers are adding NOS modes, much more reasonably priced compared to one man shop DACs. I don't have this DAC but I got the pro audio version instead and it sounds damn good and cheap. This is coming from someone who tried $3000 and $4000 DACs. Modern audio tech is great stuff.

 

[GioF71]

Hello @music_man, is there a post where you show your modifications to the Teac UD501?
That is a unit I have been considering for a long time, even if I ended up buying other stuff.
Thank you!