[zolkis]

So, one more time I will waiting a few days and deciding if I sending the ST back (and losing money, of course), or keeping the ST and selling my iO-12 (losing money too!)

Hard decision, since they are good at different things. I liked the IO-12 more, because it's closer to neutral which I like.
By your description, the emotional power of listening seems to be better with the ST, and sometimes instead of asking which is better / gives you more, you need to ask the question which is the one you would miss most.

Even tough I felt the ST had too much bass for me, in any mode, but it was a kind of pleasant bass, which had less issues I felt the IO-12 had.
Ultimately price (and back then, availability) decided, plus I am not yet sure I wouldn't be happy with a lesser IO-6 or even an IO-4 (without ANC) instead of the IO-12 as a wireless headphone (given that I have a lot of other closed and open dynamic and e-stat headphones). To be seen.
If the ST would cost about half (which I think it would be a more correct price for the given build quality, materials and sound), I might choose that, or similar sound in the future.

 

[angelom]

Still, for me the ST is giving a not 'WOW' effect (like I always saying), but a more honest, correct, more close to real life, reproduction of sound, a more clean window to what you having in your source of music. BUT I must insisting that the iO-12's sound is very impressive, more than several ST owners imagining.

I'm seeing more clearly now, after testing and comparing very more tracks with both headphones, that the more important frequency of all, the midrange, is where the ST is grabbing me more in very more occasions. The midrange is have more authority, more correct weight and more realism. This is, in part, explaining why the soundstage is appearing more intimate in the ST. The mids in the iO-12, in contrast, are a little more 'distant', and this is allowing others instruments occupying more space in the complete head-stage and appearing, sometimes, like a more big sound (but not more thick), one aspect that will appealing to many people, and to me too. But the reproduction of mids is more accurate, in my view, in the ST.

Also, the small lift in sub-bass in the ST is giving a very credible and not exaggerated presence in the music when some instruments are playing very low notes.

 

[aaronjensen]

I got a replacement Solitaire T today. I left them on the firmware they came on, 4.1.5, rather than update to 4.2.1. They haven't done the "Connecting" thing while on a call and connected to two devices, which is awesome. I'm not going to update in case that was it unless someone knows how to downgrade.

I'm still getting the pops. Maybe slightly less, but I wouldn't put money on that. Also, the build is better. The original pair made a bit of a cracking sound when expanding the headband to put them on. This one is silent. I'd say this is a better copy and I plan to keep it.

 

[TheOneInYellow]

I writing the above comment on 16 November, 2.5 months ago, in the iO-12 thread, and only 2 days later I selling my wonderful ST

Three days ago I receiving a new pair of ST again because I still remember how much I love the sound of this headphone, and in that post (I only quoting very last comment) I saying what I feeling very strongly in that time. That feeling is never going away for all this time.

I don't have much time in last few days but, yes, after maybe a total of 5 hours, my memory is apparently very good remembering that, in general (but not always), I like the ST sound more than the iO-12. But I must being very clear about 2 things: 1) Even more than before, for me, without doubt, the best 2 sounding ANC headphones are the ST and the iO-12; 2) Even when I still prefer by small margin the sound of the ST, the iO-12 is an excellent sounding headphone and will impressing easily more people than the ST, in my opinion, and not just average users but possibly a good number of audiophiles too.

Still, for me the ST is giving a not 'WOW' effect (like I always saying), but a more honest, correct, more close to real life, reproduction of sound, a more clean window to what you having in your source of music. BUT I must insisting that the iO-12's sound is very impressive, more than several ST owners imagining.

So, one more time I will waiting a few days and deciding if I sending the ST back (and losing money, of course), or keeping the ST and selling my iO-12 (losing money too!)

Welcome back to the Solitaire T club my friend!
I'm truly overjoyed that your back with the Solitaire T, and re-enjoying it's boring, super addictive sonic signature!

---

I am not going to lie, I was very sad that you had taken this route, despite my genuine understanding and respect on your decision.

In my case, I would have changed my audio chain to accommodate the volume issues you have when using the Solitaire T as is connected to your Apple devices, be it via a different music app player, a DAP dongle, or even a dedicated second (Android) device or DAP specifically for music listening, and adjusted settings to have fine volume control (Samsung Android devices are great for this!).

Even then, I understand that your ecosystem is based around Apple gear, and as the Dali IO-12 gives you exactly what you need with volume adjustment on the fly, you gave this greater weight verses your adoration and praise to the T+A Solitaire T.

I tried to, politely, and not in these exact words, advise you that you may have buyers remorse. Not because Dali IO-12 is bad (you have given wonderful explanations on its strengths, weaknesses, and it is the second best hybrid headphone on the market!), but because you loved the voicing of the Solitaire T.

---

The areas where you wish you had better features, specifically volume control, I truly understand as something you require for your listening sessions.
However, I also now strongly encourage you to buy a DAC/amp dongle that has both Bluetooth and single-ended and/or balanced outputs as well. This can serve as a better audio pathway from your Apple device, better volume control, and, if you ever wish to, a good portable amp for passive listening.

Note: I'm a big supporter of FiiO products, so this next section may be seen as heavily biased, but there are plentiful alternatives within the same vein of what I'm suggesting as potentially useful audio devices for Apple hardware:

First, portable DAC/amps: I think that the FiiO BTR7 is a fantastic device, offering the latest Bluetooth specs, and most powerful DAC and amp in a super compact body versus the competition. This can bypass using a DAP, and turn your phone into an ultra powerful DAP, especially (USB-C) Apple iPhone's and iPad's.
Further, FiiO are making new models for Autumn/Winter 2024: BTR11, BTR13 and BTR17, alongside another model BTR15 (see here).
This is my favoured option, to get the BTR7 now and trade in for either BTR15 or BTR17 (or any other model/alternative) when they are released.
However, there are many other brands with their competing products on the market too (it's quiet flooded really...).

Second, USB dongles; even more compact than portable DAC/amps, these devices are very portable and offer a good selection of features without bulk, but better for more efficient headphones (Solitaire T is fairly efficient).
FiiO offer KA17 as current flagship, but are introducing a new range-topper, as well as are releasing two new slightly cheaper options (KA15 and KA10 respectively) later this year. Older, cheaper KAXX products due to continuous sales. More deets here.

Third, consider Bluetooth-only transmitters: very tiny and can be quiet an attractive, low profile solution.
FiiO have announced an affordable new transmitter, called BT11, entering the market later this year; see here.

Hope these may give you an option to offer finer volume control, and superior audio pathway for your Apple iPhone!

Edit: added clarity and fixed errors.

 

[WDitters]

I writing the above comment on 16 November, 2.5 months ago, in the iO-12 thread, and only 2 days later I selling my wonderful ST

Three days ago I receiving a new pair of ST again because I still remember how much I love the sound of this headphone, and in that post (I only quoting very last comment) I saying what I feeling very strongly in that time. That feeling is never going away for all this time.

I don't have much time in last few days but, yes, after maybe a total of 5 hours, my memory is apparently very good remembering that, in general (but not always), I like the ST sound more than the iO-12. But I must being very clear about 2 things: 1) Even more than before, for me, without doubt, the best 2 sounding ANC headphones are the ST and the iO-12; 2) Even when I still prefer by small margin the sound of the ST, the iO-12 is an excellent sounding headphone and will impressing easily more people than the ST, in my opinion, and not just average users but possibly a good number of audiophiles too.

Still, for me the ST is giving a not 'WOW' effect (like I always saying), but a more honest, correct, more close to real life, reproduction of sound, a more clean window to what you having in your source of music. BUT I must insisting that the iO-12's sound is very impressive, more than several ST owners imagining.

So, one more time I will waiting a few days and deciding if I sending the ST back (and losing money, of course), or keeping the ST and selling my iO-12 (losing money too!)

 

[angelom]

Welcome back to the Solitaire T club my friend!
I'm truly overjoyed that your back with the Solitaire T, and re-enjoying it's boring, super addictive sonic signature!

---

I tried to, politely, and not in these exact words, advise you that you may have buyers remorse. Not because Dali IO-12 is bad (you have given wonderful explanations on its strengths, weaknesses, and it is the second best hybrid headphone on the market!), but because you loved the voicing of the Solitaire T.

---

The areas where you wish you had better features, specifically volume control, I truly understand as something you require for your listening sessions.
However, I also now strongly encourage you to buy a DAC/amp dongle that has both Bluetooth and single-ended and/or balanced outputs as well. This can serve as a better audio pathway from your Apple device, better volume control, and, if you ever wish to, a good portable amp for passive listening.

Note: I'm a big supporter of FiiO products, so this next section may be seen as heavily biased, but there are plentiful alternatives within the same vein of what I'm suggesting as potentially useful audio devices for Apple hardware:

First, portable DAC/amps: I think that the FiiO BTR7 is a fantastic device, offering the latest Bluetooth specs, and most powerful DAC and amp in a super compact body versus the competition. This can bypass using a DAP, and turn your phone into an ultra powerful DAP, especially (USB-C) Apple iPhone's and iPad's.
Further, FiiO are making new models for Autumn/Winter 2024: BTR11, BTR13 and BTR17, alongside another model BTR15 (see here).
This is my favoured option, to get the BTR7 now and trade in for either BTR15 or BTR17 (or any other model/alternative) when they are released.
However, there are many other brands with their competing products on the market too (it's quiet flooded really...).

Second, USB dongles; even more compact than portable DAC/amps, these devices are very portable and offer a good selection of features without bulk, but better for more efficient headphones (Solitaire T is fairly efficient).
FiiO offer KA17 at present, but are introducing a new range-topper, but are about to release two slightly cheaper options (KA15 and KA10 respectively), whilst keeping older, cheaper KAXX products due to continuous sales. More deets here.

Third, consider Bluetooth-only transmitters: very tiny and can be quiet an attractive, low profile solution.
FiiO have announced an affordable new transmitter, called BT11, entering the market later this year; see here.

Hope these may give you an option to offer finer volume control, and superior audio pathway for your Apple iPhone!

Hi TheOneInYellow.

Thank you for welcoming back to this thread that I always like so much! And thank you for your recommendations and taking the time for doing this! I must explaining to you in little more detail my situation AND preferences.

First, I must saying that if I deciding buying the ST again, is precisely because I really love the sound of this headphone, like you already know. I love the ST so much that even when I deciding selling my first pair, something inside is telling me that possibly in the future I must testing and comparing again with the iO-12. Even the decision of buying the ST again isn't easy because I know that, don't matter which headphone I will keeping, I will losing money.

This are the 4 main aspects where the iO-12 is very strong and making my decision (even today) difficult:

1. The sound. The iO-12 really is have excellent sound quality, for me the ONLY ANC headphone that is truly competing in sound quality with the ST. Right now, and because I making this new decision and will losing money independent of the result, I'm paying even more attention to the differences, so I'm making a sound preference list with 3 columns: a) ST better, b) iO-12 better and c) a tie (with maybe small comment sometimes of very little preference for one or the other). Right now the ST is clearly winning after about 45 test tracks.

2. The INSTANT volume control and EXCELLENT and precise 32 volume steps (vs 16 with others headphones or even less with the ST!) with Apple devices that always giving me the volume I really want incredibly fast (remember I'm changing volume VERY constantly all the time). Also, play and pause are instant, not always the case with the ST.

3. Volume. The iO-12 is have more max volume than the ST and for some old masters (with low volume) I always have sufficient volume headroom. This is NOT a real problem with the ST but few time is happening where I needing just little more max volume for few albums.

4. Comfort. For me the ST is very comfortable. BUT the iO-12 is not only more comfortable than the ST, but the moment I put the headphone in my head I never need adjusting the position, NEVER. Not other ANC headphone ever giving me this instant perfect comfort AND correct positioning in my head. With the ST, even when is very comfortable, I adjusting the position several times during long listening sessions.

About your recommendations vs my needs and preferences, I'm really sorry after your efforts and details explaining this, but I really don't want extra DACs, amps, dongles, cables, new (software) music player, or new DAPs don't matter how small or even cheap. About music players, using my MacBook Pro and iPhone (and iPad too), nothing for me is beating the Apple music player app and how seamless is the integration, SPECIALLY for someone like me that having so many playlists that I changing/updating frequently.

The only compromise or exception that I more or less accepting, after some frustration with the ST's playback features, is the Satechi remote that I writing about in this thread a long time ago -- is very good with MacBooks, iPhones or iPads. Is working perfectly, is small, and is have the standard Apple 16 volume steps (not 32 like the iO-12), not the imprecise volume steps of the ST, and even have fast-forward and rewind (!). BUT, nothing is beating having only one very excellent solution in the actual headphone -- here Dali really doing a great job.

All of this aspects, some obviously more important than others, is what is making my decision SO difficult and so I will spending few more days for being 100% sure what is the best option for me personally.

Note: others better aspects of the ST vs the iO-12, that aren't critical for me personally BUT definitely for others, but still part of the complete 'competition' in my case are: CLEARLY better fully passive mode reproduction, with extremely close tonal balance to BT "high quality" mode (here the iO-12 is not delivering what Dali claiming when comparing the best BT mode or USB-C mode with fully passive mode), better ANC, better transparency mode, VERY better portability, and better construction quality (even if isn't apparent for majority of people, but I know this after owning the ST for one year and owning the iO-12 for almost 3 months)...and possibly better design for my taste.

 

[aaronjensen]

Wanted to share a track I just listened to on the ST. A pretty amazing acoustic guitar and vocal performance that sounds great on the ST.

Keith Don't Go (Live) by Nils Lofgren

https://tidal.com/browse/track/29113109

 

[angelom]

Ok, here is other difference between the ST and the iO-12 that is becoming more and more clear, and also more important for me after all of this tests.

I remember mentioning several times in this thread how clean the sound of the ST is in BT "high quality" mode, with not artefacts that I hearing in all others BT/ANC headphones. The iO-12 is have great sound and very good 'cleanliness', but the ST is just clearly better, completely free (for my ears) of any audible (BT) artefacts. Remarkable.

 

[WDitters]

Wanted to share a track I just listened to on the ST. A pretty amazing acoustic guitar and vocal performance that sounds great on the ST.

Keith Don't Go (Live) by Nils Lofgren

https://tidal.com/browse/track/29113109

One of my standard auditioning test tracks …

 

[angelom]

Right now, and because I making this new decision and will losing money independent of the result, I'm paying even more attention to the differences, so I'm making a sound preference list with 3 columns: a) ST better, b) iO-12 better and c) a tie (with maybe small comment sometimes of very little preference for one or the other). Right now the ST is clearly winning after about 45 test tracks.

I know that a lot of people are very desperate for knowing my present score between the ST and the iO-12 (considering only sound quality). So, here is the last update, after testing 71 tracks:

35 --- ST preference
14 --- iO-12 preference
22 --- Tie (7 with small preference for ST; 6 with small preference for iO-12; 9 with no preference = complete tie for my taste)

 

[ekjellgren]

I know that a lot of people are very desperate for knowing my present score between the ST and the iO-12 (considering only sound quality). So, here is the last update, after testing 71 tracks:

35 --- ST preference
14 --- iO-12 preference
22 --- Tie (7 with small preference for ST; 6 with small preference for iO-12; 9 with no preference = complete tie for my taste)

Are there specific genres in which the one vs the other is better?

 

[Geanluka]

Hey guys probably gonna buy the Solitaire T in 3 weeks and wanted to ask for Dongles recommendations? This would be my first audiophile headphone after being disappointed with the Airpod Maxs.

 

[Robuz]

Hey guys probably gonna buy the Solitaire T in 3 weeks and wanted to ask for Dongles recommendations? This would be my first audiophile headphone after being disappointed with the Airpod Maxs.

I have a Mojo 2 and a Dragonfly Red. Both work fine with the Solitaire T. Mojo 2 is better but bulky. But I never use them with my Solitaire T anymore because bluetooth high quality mode is very good. Turns out amp+DAC+driver is more of a bottleneck in bluetooth headphones than bluetooth . If you don't like the idea of bluetooth, you can use the same excellent builtin ESS DAC and amp through a wire. Just connect your phone directly to the headphones with a USB-C cable.

 

[aaronjensen]

I have a Mojo 2 and a Dragonfly Red. Both work fine with the Solitaire T. Mojo 2 is better but bulky. But I never use them with my Solitaire T anymore because bluetooth high quality mode is very good. Turns out amp+DAC+driver is more of a bottleneck in bluetooth headphones than bluetooth . If you don't like the idea of bluetooth, you can use the same excellent builtin ESS DAC and amp through a wire. Just connect your phone directly to the headphones with a USB-C cable.

Interesting. Do you notice any audio quality improvements with the Mojo 2 at all? Or is it more or less the same as HQ mode?

 

[angelom]

Are there specific genres in which the one vs the other is better?

Do you have genuine interest for possible purchase of the ST or iO-12, or are you only asking for curiosity?