[F208Frank]

have mostly been reaching for the Solitaire P, as I'm getting more enjoyment out of listening sessions with it. Songs that sound good with the Susvara seem to sound even better with the SolP.

actually, you're right. even the TC might go. maybe divert the attention from Susvara and TC to a Stax X9000..

Bit surprised youre selling TC. Guess with most things no matter how good, people get acustomed to it. I sold mine and regretted after.

So I bought another pair within a year. Sigh.

 

[gregorio]

Who is Harman and why should I care about his target?

Harman is a huge conglomerate of various audio companies. They started in the 1950s and pioneered the Hi-Fi market. Because they’re such a big company, they have a large R&D budget/department and over the years have done a great deal of scientific research into speakers/HPs and the human perception of them. No one else can afford the testing facilities and cost of the studies but in individual study cases, Harman’s results have been confirmed/replicated.

However, as the target curve is based on an average of human perception, it might not be perfectly accurate for any one individual, although it will be for most. Even if you are an exception, it probably won’t be by much, so the Harman target would still be a good starting point.

Is dynamic range really that important

That depends on where you’re talking about. For recording it is and for digital mixing and mastering it’s even more important but for playback it’s relatively unimportant. Even the most dynamic symphony recordings only require about 60dB of dynamic range, which is about 50 times less than the dynamic range of of CD (16bit).

Should I just sell all my gear and get the Sennheiser HE-1?

That’s entirely up to you.

I vehemently disagree with the latter.

Metal is a relatively highly compressed genre. It generally requires only about 40dB or less dynamic range, considerably less that many symphonies or other large classical ensembles. It generally requires somewhat more dynamic range than some of the most highly compressed electronic or pop genres though.

G

 

[F208Frank]

Being thankful for what you have also plays a big role in your "summit fi" experience.

If one is always yearning and complaining for that last single digit percent, then I feel a little bad for them because they have 90 something percent of goodness not being appreciated or enjoyed.

I was that guy prior, so I feel bad for my former self.

 

[F208Frank]

BANNED FROM POSTING! All posts are invisible to members until approved by admins, who are approving almost none of them!"

^ is this real or did you post that yourself, I see this in your signature, genuinely curious.

 

[Gazza]

Metal is a relatively highly compressed genre. It generally requires only about 40dB or less dynamic range, considerably less that many symphonies or other large classical ensembles. It generally requires somewhat more dynamic range than some of the most highly compressed electronic or pop genres though.

G

Maybe we're talking about different things here but when I talk about poor examples of dynamic range I'm describing the compression used on many modern recordings designed to boost the loudness that severely limits the range between the highest lowest sound.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loudness_war

Famous examples being Death Magnetic by Metallica and Californication by RHCP.

This approach makes the music nigh-unlistenable when the compression is high. Metal is a very varied genre but can be very aggressive and when you have intense, thrashing guitars firing off the last thing you want is a recording shredding your ears.

I find that this can be easily correlated as albums with a poor dynamic range score suffer versus (usually older) albums with a healthy amount of range.

https://dr.loudness-war.info/album/list

 

[gregorio]

^ is this real or did you post that yourself, I see this in your signature, genuinely curious.

I did it myself and I need to change it as it’s no longer the case, at least for the time being . This site relies on advertising revenue, so refuting marketing eventually gets you into trouble.

I'm describing the compression used on many modern recordings designed to boost the loudness that severely limits the range between the highest lowest sound.

Yes, we’re talking about the same thing. I’m more than aware of the loudness war but it’s a more complicated situation than it appears on the surface. For starters, it’s a very old thing, dating back to the 1950’s and it’s a matter of the degree of appropriateness for a particular genre, because compression has been used on nearly every commercial recording for 60+ years.

Famous examples being Death Magnetic by Metallica and Californication by RHCP.
This approach makes the music nigh-unlistenable when the compression is high. Metal is a very varied genre but can be very aggressive and when you have intense, thrashing guitars firing off the last thing you want is a recording shredding your ears.

The recording industry changed greatly in the 1990’s, we saw the introduction of commercial quality DAWs, “in the box” mixing and mastering and the rise of software “plugins” over expensive hardware units. For example, advanced software compressors/limiters, which could be very clean, highly controllable and allowed far more compression. All that led to a mini explosion in new popular music genres and sub-genres, which took full advantage of this new tech.

That caused a problem for Metal genres, which up to then had relied for many years on being by far the loudest genre/s. Metal had always used a great deal of compression: Overdriven guitar amps/cabs + smashed (analogue) compressors and limiters but it wasn’t designed from the ground up to take advantage of the new software compressors/limiters and couldn’t compete with some of the new genres that were. Death Magnetic and Californication being famous examples that tried, failed and proved that fact.

I find that this can be easily correlated as albums with a poor dynamic range score suffer versus (usually older) albums with a healthy amount of range.

That’s where things can get a bit complicated, what is a “healthy amount of range”? There isn’t a single/simple answer to that question because it depends on the genre. A “healthy” dynamic range for some EDM and other fairly recent genres is less than a healthy dynamic range for Metal, which in turn is far less than for other genres, particularly acoustic genres such as classical.

So, you have to be careful when making comparisons using the DR Database.

G

 

[F208Frank]

Summit Fit is partially state of mind.

 

[Tachyon88]

When you have heard it all, at what point can you say you have heard it all ?

 

[ThanatosVI]

have mostly been reaching for the Solitaire P, as I'm getting more enjoyment out of listening sessions with it. Songs that sound good with the Susvara seem to sound even better with the SolP.

actually, you're right. even the TC might go. maybe divert the attention from Susvara and TC to a Stax X9000..

Glad my recommendation brought you such Joy

My random thought: Head-Fi detox for a few weeks increases happyness with current gear significantly!

 

[F208Frank]

Glad my recommendation brought you such Joy

My random thought: Head-Fi detox for a few weeks increases happyness with current gear significantly!

Truly some heavy words of wisdom right here, as I did not listen to my headphones for 3 hours and now they once again they feel like one the best experiences that has ever graced me in my lifetime of 35 years.

Haha.

 

[gregorio]

When you have heard it all, at what point can you say you have heard it all ?

That’s one of the issues I believe. Firstly, it’s obviously not really possible to “have heard it all”. Secondly and perhaps most importantly, what is the reference? Extremely few consumers, even amongst audiophiles, ever get to experience a truly reference system and even those very few that do, only get to experience one such system and for a very short period of time. There’s a lot of audiophile gear that is falsely marketed as “pro” or “reference” and IME, I’ve never come across an audiophile with a good idea of what “reference” means and therefore what to compare gear to. Most therefore have no option other than to be highly influenced by marketing, testimonials and reviews. And lastly, long term memory simply isn’t very good/accurate anyway.

My random thought: Head-Fi detox for a few weeks increases happyness with current gear significantly!

That’s another of the big issues. A fair bit of research has been done that indicates to a certain extent we “acclimatise” to a sound system/listening environment.

In addition, perception is a tricky thing, both in the short term, minutes/hours and the long term, days/weeks. Trying to remain objective is virtually impossible when concentrating on fine details, although there are some tricks that can help to a limited extent, one of which is as you state, having a significant break.

G

 

[Tachyon88]

That’s one of the issues I believe. Firstly, it’s obviously not really possible to “have heard it all”. Secondly and perhaps most importantly, what is the reference? Extremely few consumers, even amongst audiophiles, ever get to experience a truly reference system and even those very few that do, only get to experience one such system and for a very short period of time. There’s a lot of audiophile gear that is falsely marketed as “pro” or “reference” and IME, I’ve never come across an audiophile with a good idea of what “reference” means and therefore what to compare gear to. Most therefore have no option other than to be highly influenced by marketing, testimonials and reviews. And lastly, long term memory simply isn’t very good/accurate anyway.

I'm talking about the people who have basically heard every "TOTL" headphone and multiple style amps (not tubes) with different and similar topologies. For example, If you have heard 10-15 amps, when can you safely say that the 16th one you try isn't going to bring any difference of a flavor that the last ones you have heard within that variation ?

 

[paradoxper]

I'm talking about the people who have basically heard every "TOTL" headphone and multiple style amps (not tubes) with different and similar topologies. For example, If you have heard 10-15 amps, when can you safely say that the 16th one you try isn't going to bring any difference of a flavor that the last ones you have heard within that variation ?

That's pretty easy, you fill the reference experience to your listening preference.

 

[DuncanDirkDick]

Hard to say, I've heard enough to come to the conclusion that the influence of amps is overstated over here, at least to my taste. YMMV

 

[bagwell359]

Micro dynamics is.what you get from a lot of panel loudspeakers. I was an addict. Macro dynamics is what you get from K- Horns, along with 24 foot long violins. When u get both, and no shrill treble or fat bass and a liquid deep midrange that melds with bass and treble, then my son/daughter you have attained nirvana and no more searching or analyzing is needed.

I'm listening to a cheapish pseudo version now: TIDAL MQA->LG V40->Gumby a1->BHCs (very modded)->Senn HD-600 (mildly moded)