suitable car amp to work with x3 + 2 8's
Sep 18, 2014 at 11:42 AM Thread Starter Post #1 of 11

krazydeal777

New Head-Fier
Joined
Sep 16, 2014
Posts
12
Likes
10
Hey  i just got a fiio x3 , i got custom car speakers , subs, and a custom deck. However im missing an amp that connects to the subs and i feel something missing. Any recommendations for a amp? I really don't need to get a really expensive one but one that would fit nicely for that setup. Theres 2 doorspeakers and the subs i think are 8s or 10's so something that will work nice there maybe 600-1200 watts? Let me know what you think . I am kinda new to this stuff.
 
Sep 18, 2014 at 12:36 PM Post #2 of 11
Why use the X3? What's that "custom deck" anyway? Time alignment processing is a lot more important in a car audio environment. In my car I don't use the EQ anymore after setting the T/A properly. Not even the best CDP or DAC in the world will correct the bigger problem of not sitting smack in the center of two monitors (and instead you're sitting closest to the driver side tweeter, driver side midwoofer, passenger side tweeter, passenger side midwoofer, and subwoofer - in that order).
 
In any case using a T/A processor will require five channels of amplification as well, since such a processor will use a DSP (and therefore do everything in the digital stage, prior to the DACs) and will send out analog signals that can already be set with active crossover settings for the tweeters, midwoofer, and subwoofer (my "new" processor will use a midrange as well, so that's a 3-way set-up in front with a sub in the back, and seven channels of amplification).
 
Sep 19, 2014 at 1:30 AM Post #4 of 11
  its 50w - 4x and So are u saying i should have a amplifier in the front and with the subs? and what channel amps?

 
What's custom about that deck? What I'm saying overall is that not even a $5,000 DAC will not solve the inherent problems of a car audio environment. A stock receiver playing CDs or 320kbps MP3s with proper time alignment will still sound better especially when it comes to imaging compared to just using an audio player with a nice DAC (that opens up other ergonomic issues, like how it wasn't designed to be easily manipulated by one hand out of the corner of your eye while at a stoplight). Basically, save up, get the proper gear and proper installation, and don't go back to the times when the Discmans or MD Walkmans sat in the passenger seat with going into the cassette adapter.

If you are going to go for that kind of set-up, there are many processors out there like JBL's MS-One that can take a line-level signal from the stock receiver's speaker output (as well as an RCA input if your receiver has it), run it through an ADC, then through its DSP to employ time delays as well as the crossover points on each channel (still stereo, but each tweeter, midwoofer, and subwoofer gets their own signal out of it prior to the amp), then run it back through a DAC. GIGO principle doesn't count for much in a car when you don't address this, not to mention that these processors typically come with an autocalibration feature and test tracks so automatically EQ the signal to match what it should sound like in their acoustically-treated studio. My Alpine PXE-H660 has 512 EQ bands (separately for all channels) for its Audyssey autoEQ feature, vs what, a 5-band parametric manual EQ feature if I want to tune it myself. I have a DEH-80PRS with similar processing features but only takes CDs; with this new processor any car I buy - even with an integrated GPS - can have a properly-tuned system, although I'd have to stick with CDs or 320kbps MP3.
 
Now, if that is what you will do, you'll need five channels of amplification. It can be either one 4ch amp or a signal, it doesn't really matter too much as long as you get something of good quality like Alpine Class D amps or JL audio. The wiring will then be like this:

Receiver --speaker/RCA output--> processor analog in--output stage --RCA--> 2ch for tweeters --RCA-->2ch of amplification--> tweeters
(stock or "custom")                                                                                --RCA--> 2ch for midwoofer --RCA-->2ch of amplification--> midwoofer
                                                                                                              --RCA--> 1ch for subwoofer --RCA-->1ch of amplification--> subwoofer
 
---
 
As for proper installation of the tweeters and midwoofers, in very basic terms it goes well beyond Dynamat in your doors. These actually should be done first, regardless of whether you go for the processor above or not, since these can make a huge difference and a processor will only correct relative distance issues (T/A but also EQ), not installations that have too many reflections in the cabin. The tweeters have to be angled properly as much as you put a toe-in with speakers at home, except this time instead of just width and depth you have two other concerns: soundstage height and managing reflections. That last part's the tricky one because if you put too much toe-in, the driver's side tweeter will sound more forward and the passenger side will sound vague or weak; use too little, and both tweeters will have too much reflections off the windshield, and the driver side will still sound more forward, the whole thing will sound sibilant until you really punch a hole through the treble with an EQ (the problem isn't the response, but you hear the same "t" or "s" several times over separated by microseconds). Midwoofers are less iffy an will require more extensive installations, although some isntall them on the kickpanel.
 
It would be best if you went on over to www.diymobileaudio.com instead of asking this over here where people focus too much on DACs and GIGO when that isn't the main problem. Also that's where many people who compete in EMMA and IASCA hang out (no, car audio competitions aren't all "let's see how many dB's your sub can...oh WOWOWOWOW look at your windshield! it's gone hahahahaha!"). That one is important because one of the things you can get penalized for is submitting a car that isn't drivable, so you can't jsut convert a car into a lounge room and win. Even my own Vifa tweeters will get deductions because you're supposed to avoid any modifications to the A-Pillars covering any part of the windshield.
 
Here's mine - in practice they don't get in the way but as per EMMA rules, that's a serious deduction for the install points. 

 
And just a few more examples of what you can pick up from DIYMA:
 
Here the tweeter and midwoofer are installed in the kickpanel to reduce the variance in distance between them.

 
Here's one in a 3-way system - the tweeters I think (but I could be wrong) are the ones pointed roughly at the passenger on the opposite side, with the midrange on the dash pointing up. It depends on each of their own dispersion patterns on how they should be installed in order to integrate them better.

 
Here's a midwoofer in the door - notice how they installed it on the plastic itself, then reinforced that panel with fiberglass and a wood baffle ring. Some cars no longer have the metal frame to mount the speaker onto, not to mention that the soundwaves coming off the back of the speaker can reflect all over the door while the soundwaves coming off the front of the speaker don't just go out the door - some of it bounces back into the door causing cancellations and resulting in weak upper bass response that overcompensating with a higher cut off for the subwoofer will only result in wobbly bass that is easily located as coming from the rear. In properly done systems that are at least a fraction of what you can expect joining EMMA or IASCA, most of the bass should sound like it's coming from somewhere on the dashboard, despite the sub's location. This is because most notes comprise of frequencies produced by both the sub and midwoofer. With a proper time-aligned system you will hear the louder, more localizable upper bass "punch" or "kick" from the midwoofer at the exact same time that you hear the omnidirectional low bass from the sub in the back, which then reinforces that note as it would in a home system with the subwoofer in front.

 
Sep 19, 2014 at 2:06 AM Post #6 of 11
  wow i really appreciate the help. I am wondering for now if i just put a lower end 4 channel amp if it would sound semi decent along with the 2 subs.

 
Get a Class D amp for now to drive the subs, but I assume your receiver has RCA outputs for that. Later on you can just get a 4ch for the other speakers (if you build a full active system around a proper processor) and then use the mono Class D for the subs, or get a single sub, since SQ set-ups rely more on a properly designed (and more compact, to save space for an amp rack) sub enclosure for a flat response. Like I said, punchy bass all depends on proper installation of the front midwoofers so it won't have cancellations as well as to properly integrate/sync its sound with the sub using crossover settings or better also with a time alignment processor.
 
Sep 19, 2014 at 10:05 AM Post #8 of 11
oh and by the way, The last thing, I do not connect my fiio x3 directly to the deck,  I connect it through an fm transmitter.. Do you think this Is totally sucking the power out of it? and if so what is my options? i need a deck with a direct plug in?
 
Sep 19, 2014 at 11:22 AM Post #9 of 11
  oh and by the way, The last thing, I do not connect my fiio x3 directly to the deck,  I connect it through an fm transmitter.. Do you think this Is totally sucking the power out of it? and if so what is my options? i need a deck with a direct plug in?

 
It won't suck the power but let me put it this way...how many high res players transmit an analog signal through FM? Why is that? Well for starters radio transmission tends to have a lot of interference - almost all transmission bands are in use, even if the government regulates it (they just make sure no two stations would end up using one that would make you hear both of them on either band).
 
Using a proper player like the X3 which has a proper output stage and DAC in a car with an FM transmitter - along with the ergonomic issues I mentioned previously - is like getting a good home audio CDP then hooking up an FM transmitter so you can keep the CDP next to you because for some reason you can't find a remote, and then spend money on a good amplifier for the speakers instead of just hooking it all up properly (like, by buying a replacement remote for it).
 
Basically what I'm saying is that all the ways of using a high res portable player in a car just ends up with all other problems that cancel out whatever benefits that player's hardware has, more so in this situation. You're very likely going to get cleaner sound with a blacker background using properly ripped/converted 320kbps MP3 files on that "custom deck" (whatever it is, but I'm assuming at this point that it can use MP3's off a CD or a USB input given that it's "custom") than with high res files going through noisy FM anyway (when to begin with recording quality matters a lot more than the resolution and sampling rate of the file being used).
 
Sep 20, 2014 at 1:26 AM Post #10 of 11
UNfortunatly the deck does not have any of those features, it just has cd  and radio so the only way to play music is cd player, radio transmiter and the radio. LOL so i guess im gonna stick with the Fm transmitter for now, although it really does not have interference . Thanks again for bearing with this audionoobfi XD.
 
Sep 20, 2014 at 1:39 AM Post #11 of 11
  UNfortunatly the deck does not have any of those features, it just has cd  and radio so the only way to play music is cd player, radio transmiter and the radio. LOL so i guess im gonna stick with the Fm transmitter for now, although it really does not have interference . Thanks again for bearing with this audionoobfi XD.

 
Why not just use the CD? Maybe it can read MP3's off that. And again, I'm curious as to what's "custom" about it at this point if those are its limited features. You'll be better off getting an $80 Clarion media receiver with no ergonomic issues than dealing with the ergonomic issues on a player (not near line of sight, can fall from where it is under braking, screen might not be bright enough depending on where the sun is, etc) playing high-res through FM. You don't actually hear the noise in terms of being able to recognize it but the noise floor is higher (like when you read reviews on DACs and DAPs having a "darker background," the FM transmitter is the opposite of that).
 

Users who are viewing this thread

Back
Top