[catscratch]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kyle So, Is this the Grado sound that i needed all along (in which case HF-1's,225's or 325's?) or is this the lack of a suitable headphone amp (Still researching this one after the apparent balls up on the 650 purchase)

I'm 100% certain that it is the lack of an amp. Are you really driving the HD650 unamped? After reading countess posts here on how these headphones unamped are a waste of money? You should not be surprised at the results, in that case. The HD650 is in a different class entirely than the SR-80, but it needs a corresponding increase in the class of associated gear in order to reach it's potential. Driving them unamped and then complaining about the sound is like eating chicken raw and complaining about the taste.

Don't mean to go off on you, but I just think you're being a bit hasty in jumping to conclusions.

However, I will say this: if you prefer the Grado sound, then it will probably better for you to sell the HD650 and go up higher in the Grado line. The 650's are going to sound warm and laid back with the vast majority of reasonably-priced amplification that you can throw at them, and if that sound is not to your liking, then there's no point in keeping them. You should be able to sell them here at only a small loss if they're in good condition.

 

[Kyle]

Quote:

Originally Posted by fewtch P.S. it would help if you filled out your profile, and put your musical tastes in the appropriate section.

Done, But for the benefit of the thread, anything electronic from psytrance to drum and bass, Minimal House to IDM. The problem here i think is that a lot of the IDM i listen to (i.e. the flashbulb) there is a lot of detail higher up, unlike some house/dance where the emphasis is on bass.

 

[Ebonyks]

Wow, i can't believe this thread has gone so far without anyone making this point.

Of course you prefer your grado SR-80's over the HD-650's *without an amp*. Higher range sennhesier headphones absolutely require an amp to shine, it's not really something to consiter as an optional upgrade somewhere in your headphone path. Without it, they sound thin, lifeless and hollow, like music played in an oversized and sterile church

The subject of amps is an entirely different one best suited for an entirely different thread (Although i'm partial to the gilmore line of amps in addition ray samuel's hybrid tube amp), but is one that needs to be thought aboutl

 

[Jmmmmm]

No offense to you, kyle, since I know you didn't mean any harm, but I wish people would stop saying one headphone is 'better' than another just because the person prefers its sound. If you prefer the grado sound, then you will enjoy grado headphones more than senn's. That definitely does not mean that they are Better than the senns. I like the grado sound as well, but I wouldn't claim it to be better.
Just like the guy who preferred his $30 sony's to $500 grados. No, the sony's aren't better, you just prefer crappy sound! I see this happening more and more.

I say get a pair of 225 of hf-1, with the latter having more bass, but both being quite good.

Edit: Oh, and I didn't even notice if you didn't have an amp. You're using the 650's unamped? That's a big no-no. If you aren't going to amp senn's, it isnt worth getting higher than around the 595, since all those above that Require an amp to sound near their potential.

 

[Kirosia]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ebonyks Of course you prefer your grado SR-80's over the HD-650's *without an amp*. Higher range sennhesier headphones absolutely require an amp to shine, it's not really something to consiter as an optional upgrade somewhere in your headphone path. Without it, they sound thin, lifeless and hollow, like music played in an oversized and sterile church

Good point, but if he naturally prefers the grado sound, nothing ain't gonna change that.

 

[Ebonyks]

Quote:

Good point, but if he naturally prefers the grado sound, nothing ain't gonna change that.

True, and for what it's worth, i prefer the grado sound over the sennhesier one as well (the 650 is the only outstanding headphone sennhesier makes, imo). But to make a decision blindly without being able to hear both headphones properly amped is lunacy.

The 650's have quite a few advantages over the grado set of phones, like a much softer pair of pads.

 

[rodentdog]

I own 2 sets of senns and 2 sets of grados. Have a good amp. Love them all. The HF-1 are great so far (#258). Still love my senn HD580's, too. Use the senns for jazz, well mastered, recorded stuff, use the grados for rock, oldies, etc. It's not like you can like only one. It's like having more than one kind of hammer, sometimes you need a claw, somtimes only a ball peen does the job

 

[Kyle]

Quote:

Originally Posted by fewtch No you're not... particularly given the fact that Senns are far from dull. I s'pose this guy might refer to classical music as "dull" also (?).

I dont' think anyone is saying the 650's are *****, it's like i say Abba are *****, but i mean i respect that they talented as they were a big thing in there day, but i just don't get them, therefore to me they are ***** (But nonetheless talented). It's easier/quicker to say that the 650's are dull than to say in my personnal opinion......blah blah blah.

I can remember how impressed i was with the 650's, but after hearing the 80's the 650's do sound, well, dull to me. But i still think they are superb at what they do and if that's your sound go with it as many people do.

Don't mean to come across as an arse or anything, just wanted to diffuse this in case it were to blow up. (Hoping of course this won't start an argument between the Senn & grado camps)

 

[Teerawit]

Yep it seems you like the Grado signature more. If you want a higher model that sounds more like the SR-80 I would look into the HF-1 over the SR325i.

325i to me is a hit or miss that is worthy of audition before purchase.

 

[Kyle]

Quote:

Originally Posted by catscratch I'm 100% certain that it is the lack of an amp. Are you really driving the HD650 unamped?

They're being driven from an AV amp. My issue here is Amp's in the UK. There's the Creek, and a couple of others that get no mention here within my budget, otherwise i'm looking at £450gbp (I think that works out about $800usd) for something like the gilmore lite.. There just isn't the range and what we do have we seem to be a premium for. I will get a dedicated amp, but give the price i want to be sure headphone truly are the way to go for me and not just a different sound that i'll stop enjoying. (I know this passes as blasphemy here, but any newcomers to head-fi would probably back me up)

 

[deaconblues]

Well, now that you've mentioned that you're from the UK, and the Grado sound fits your tastes, that pretty much makes the HF-1 your optimal choice. The timing of your post practically makes the HF-1 a now-or-never option, so I'd really suggest contacting Todd to get one of the last 20 HF-1s ASAP.

 

[Kyle]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jmmmmm No offense to you, kyle, since I know you didn't mean any harm, but I wish people would stop saying one headphone is 'better' than another just because the person prefers its sound.

Non taken, (See previous post, i'm not dissing the 650's just saying they don't suit my tastes). Apologies if my title come's across as narrow minded.

Is an AV Amp really as good as not amp at all???????

Again, see earlier post. Being in the UK means a headphone amp is a much bigger thing (Reads expensive). I was hoping to settile on the headphones then purchase a headphone amp later doen the line, do i really need to buy an amp to fully test the 650's before i buy the HF-1's. Again, please be aware that this is the equivalent of around 800usd! I really need to be sure of this purchase as is more than my soundcard/amp/cd player put together.

 

[Kyle]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Teerawit Yep it seems you like the Grado signature more. If you want a higher model that sounds more like the SR-80 I would look into the HF-1 over the SR325i. 325i to me is a hit or miss that is worthy of audition before purchase.

Awaiting a reply from todd :fingers crossed:. Getting anxious about getting a pair now, give there are only 20 or so left.

 

[fewtch]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kyle I can remember how impressed i was with the 650's, but after hearing the 80's the 650's do sound, well, dull to me.

Do you listen to unamplified acoustic music? Because IMO it sounds natural through Senns, but has an unrealistic timbre with lower end Grados.

So here's my opinion -- realistic instrument sounds are *exciting* to listen to, and fake/unrealistic sounding instruments are *dull*.

 

[apostate]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kyle I can remember how impressed i was with the 650's, but after hearing the 80's the 650's do sound, well, dull to me. But i still think they are superb at what they do and if that's your sound go with it as many people do.

I can understand that as well and I understand why some people prefer Senns or Grados. However, I think part of the objection here is that your comparison (ie system) favors the Grados by a pretty fair margin. What you are hearing from the 80s is lot closer to their optimal sound than what you are getting from the 650s. The addition of a good headphone amp should improve the performance of the Senns and *could* make a difference in your opinion of them. My 595s, which don't necessarily *require* an amp like the 650s do, don't fair well against my 225s when unamped even though I consider them to perform in about the same class when they are amped.

The one thing I would suggest though if you do go down that route is to find something (one example would be the gilmore light) that is said to do well with both Senn and Grado headphones so that if you still don't like the 650s you still get good synergy with your current/future Grados.

EDIT: I don't know if buying from Germany would result in any better prices for you but if so you might check Meier Audio (forum sponser). Their gear seems pretty well respected...

Ant