[Alghazanth]

Quote:

 

I originally was listening to the LCD2 on a Music Hall 25.2 and 25.3, and a JD-100A.  I wasn't too thrilled with the setup as a whole, but that might be due to the majority of experience being limited to solid-state.  We swapped out the 25.3 DAC with a Nuforce DAC9 which significantly improved the clarity of the sound and got rid of a fair bit of the muddyness, but it was still there.  I'd be curious to hear how the LCD2s and HE-500/HE-6 perform on a quality solid-state setup.  I might just not be used to tubes but I think the LCD2s would benefit from a setup that emphasizes black backgrounds, minimal distortion, and speed.

I actually don't like tubes at all for the LCD2 to be honest. But then again, tubes aren't really for Metal and Electronic. I think my problem with the LCD2 my first trial was just that it was such an immense departure from my prior Denon/Beyer experience. Once I got the HE500 later and got used to the ortho way of things, and then I slipped on that LCD2 again to provide a comparison to a friend... it was mindblowing.
 
 
 
 
 

 

[DaveBSC]

Quote:

 
I'll look at reviews for all of those!  The one of those I'm familiar with is the W4S DAC-2, which seems to have quite a bit of controversy.  Are there any other quality DACs worth looking at?  I'd also be open to something that MSRPs at $2-4k, and would hunt around for a used model.  It seems like DACs generally don't decrease in quality over time, other than normal wear and tear on the components.

The W4S seems to be good, if not necessarily incredible. It does offer a lot of features for the money though. The Overdrive starts at $4K, and the new Resonessence Labs Invicta is also $4K. It's made by guys from ESS (creators of the Sabre DAC), so you would expect that they know how to get the most out of that complex chip. I've seen Accustic Arts DAC1 Mk4s go for anywhere from $2500-3500 on the used market, new it is I think $7,000. No USB, but any converter will work. Berkeley Alpha DACs (no USB either) go for $3500-4000. Above that there's the Aesthetix Pandora, at $5K.
 

 

[MaZa]

Quote:

The HE500 doesn't have the sparkle you like... it's treble is a bit laid back, though not quite as much as the LCD-2. For me, the LCD-2 rev1 beats the HE500 out for Metal slightly, effectively making it my favorite Metal can of all time. 

 
Since I am a guy that likes sparkling treble, LCD-2 would be out of question to me aswell, no? That is dissapointing. I like my metal with some treble. HE-6 is out of the question due to its ridiculous amp requirements, I'm not about to give up with my HP100 yet.

 

[Alghazanth]

Quote:

 
Since I am a guy that likes sparkling treble, LCD-2 would be out of question to me aswell, no? That is dissapointing. I like my metal with some treble. HE-6 is out of the question due to its ridiculous amp requirements, I'm not about to give up with my HP100 yet.

Neither the LCD-2 nor the HE500 have sparkling treble, both have a more natural sounding treble. I come from very bright cans too and have adjusted very well, though initially it was a bit jarring, especially the LCD2, and I would never go back to overemphasized treble. And I listen to Metal almost exclusively.
 

 
 

 

[MaZa]

Quote:

Neither the LCD-2 nor the HE500 have sparkling treble, both have a more natural sounding treble. I come from very bright cans too and have adjusted very well, though initially it was a bit jarring, especially the LCD2, and I would never go back to overemphasized treble. And I listen to Metal almost exclusively.
 

 
 

 
As long as the treble is not recessed compared to the rest of the sound, veiled that is, I may be cool with them. We'll see if I ever get my hands on either one of those headphones.

 

[Alghazanth]

Quote:

 
As long as the treble is not recessed compared to the rest of the sound, veiled that is, I may be cool with them. We'll see if I ever get my hands on either one of those headphones.

I definitely think any metalhead has to try the LCD-2 at least once... it's unbelievable for the genre. The HE500 is amazing too, but the LCD2 gets the slight edge for aggressive music. 
 

 

[K3cT]

OP, how high you're willing to spend and do you want to wait for up to a year for a Stax amplifier? 
 
Some people here tend to recommend Stax systems as the answer to everything without consideration to budget/time constraint and musical preference which I don't think is the appropriate thing to do. I've heard my fair share of both systems and IMHO, there is no easy answer. 

 

[DaveBSC]

Quote:

As long as the treble is not recessed compared to the rest of the sound, veiled that is, I may be cool with them. We'll see if I ever get my hands on either one of those headphones.

It's worth noting that the Rev 2 of the LCD-2 seems to have more treble, this was confirmed by Tyll's measurements I believe.
 

 

[Elysian]

Quote:

The W4S seems to be good, if not necessarily incredible. It does offer a lot of features for the money though. The Overdrive starts at $4K, and the new Resonessence Labs Invicta is also $4K. It's made by guys from ESS (creators of the Sabre DAC), so you would expect that they know how to get the most out of that complex chip. I've seen Accustic Arts DAC1 Mk4s go for anywhere from $2500-3500 on the used market, new it is I think $7,000. No USB, but any converter will work. Berkeley Alpha DACs (no USB either) go for $3500-4000. Above that there's the Aesthetix Pandora, at $5K.
 

I really appreciate those suggestions.  The Invicta looks amazing and would be my top priority DAC of choice if there were used models on the market!  I am concerned about them being a new company, though, re any maintenance/repairs needed for the device.
 
Have heard good things about Acoustic Arts but never seen any FS... will keep a close eye for that too.  Most of the aforementioned DACs are completely new to me (Aesthetix, Ayre, Calyx, M2Tech) and have a lot of reading to do!
 
Quote:

OP, how high you're willing to spend and do you want to wait for up to a year for a Stax amplifier? 
 
Some people here tend to recommend Stax systems as the answer to everything without consideration to budget/time constraint and musical preference which I don't think is the appropriate thing to do. I've heard my fair share of both systems and IMHO, there is no easy answer. 

I'm going to try my best to stick to my plan of going for the O2 MKII and a lower-end (but adequate) amp, will upgrade my DAC around Christmas, and aim for the BHSE in a year or two.  My gf doesn't think I have the self-restraint, though, and will pull the trigger on the BHSE sooner

 
I've pretty much committed to buying the SR-007 O2 MKII and a GES this week (both mentally and in writing).  I will miss my solid-state setup, but when I inevitably return to solid-state, the LCD2 or one of the HEs is at the top of my list (probably paired with a GS-X).  I've read mixed things from the technical/DIY crowd on the SR-009s so I'll hopefully have a chance to demo them at the next Bay Area meet, but most people seem to love the SR-007 MKII.
 
I've heard the KGSS is the logical step down from the BHSE but that's $500-1000 above I want to spend right now, and KGSSes are uncommon on FS forums and get snapped up pretty quick.  I read some people who seem credible in the technical crowd who say the GES is competent for the SR-007 MKII as a first electrostat amp, or the SRM-323S or a modded SRM-T1.  I can't find any head-to-head comparisons of the SRM-323S vs the GES, but from looking at the specs and price, they seem roughly in the same category so I should hopefully be fine, and the GES (like most Woo gear) has good resaleability and straightforward maintenance and modding potential.  I'm not a big Sennheiser fan, so I have my heart set on the Stax.
 
Most people who are in the budget bracket below the KGSS seem to default to a Stax amp with the SR-007, so I'm interested to hear how everything turns out.  Legend has it nothing comes close to the BHSE, but ever since listening to the LCD2s, I'm pretty bothered by the lack of bass and stage every time I listen to my SR225i and now I must upgrade.
 
Anyway, any suggestions on good DACs to eventually pair with a BHSE and a SR-007 O2 MKII (or any other general setup improvements) are greatly appreciated!

 

[wind016]

 
Quote:

Me too, remember my first impressions? Thought it was garbage.
 
Second time... nirvana. 

Yea, I guess I needed more time with them.
 

 
Quote:

I really appreciate those suggestions.  The Invicta looks amazing and would be my top priority DAC of choice if there were used models on the market!  I am concerned about them being a new company, though, re any maintenance/repairs needed for the device.
 
Have heard good things about Acoustic Arts but never seen any FS... will keep a close eye for that too.  Most of the aforementioned DACs are completely new to me (Aesthetix, Ayre, Calyx, M2Tech) and have a lot of reading to do!
 

I'm going to try my best to stick to my plan of going for the O2 MKII and a lower-end (but adequate) amp, will upgrade my DAC around Christmas, and aim for the BHSE in a year or two.  My gf doesn't think I have the self-restraint, though, and will pull the trigger on the BHSE sooner

 
I've pretty much committed to buying the SR-007 O2 MKII and a GES this week (both mentally and in writing).  I will miss my solid-state setup, but when I inevitably return to solid-state, the LCD2 or one of the HEs is at the top of my list (probably paired with a GS-X).  I've read mixed things from the technical/DIY crowd on the SR-009s so I'll hopefully have a chance to demo them at the next Bay Area meet, but most people seem to love the SR-007 MKII.
 
I've heard the KGSS is the logical step down from the BHSE but that's $500-1000 above I want to spend right now, and KGSSes are uncommon on FS forums and get snapped up pretty quick.  I read some people who seem credible in the technical crowd who say the GES is competent for the SR-007 MKII as a first electrostat amp, or the SRM-323S or a modded SRM-T1.  I can't find any head-to-head comparisons of the SRM-323S vs the GES, but from looking at the specs and price, they seem roughly in the same category so I should hopefully be fine, and the GES (like most Woo gear) has good resaleability and straightforward maintenance and modding potential.  I'm not a big Sennheiser fan, so I have my heart set on the Stax.
 
Most people who are in the budget bracket below the KGSS seem to default to a Stax amp with the SR-007, so I'm interested to hear how everything turns out.  Legend has it nothing comes close to the BHSE, but ever since listening to the LCD2s, I'm pretty bothered by the lack of bass and stage every time I listen to my SR225i and now I must upgrade.
 
Anyway, any suggestions on good DACs to eventually pair with a BHSE and a SR-007 O2 MKII (or any other general setup improvements) are greatly appreciated!

FWIR, you don't want to buy a tube amplifier that cuts corners. Solid state is usually the better bargain. I owned the Woo Audio 6SE for awhile and I loaded the best tubes I could get with them. No matter what I used, the 6SE smeared details all over the place. I got the sound I wanted with higher resolution, layering, and soundstage from just using a good mastering quality equalizer with just my Anedio D1 DAC than with the 6SE in the chain. Needless to say, I sold it. There was no reason for me to own something that costed over a thousand dollars and sounded better without it completely. I haven't heard a GES, but I wonder if the same applies since it's a tube amp after all.

 

[DaveBSC]

Quote:

I really appreciate those suggestions.  The Invicta looks amazing and would be my top priority DAC of choice if there were used models on the market!  I am concerned about them being a new company, though, re any maintenance/repairs needed for the device.
 
Have heard good things about Acoustic Arts but never seen any FS... will keep a close eye for that too.  Most of the aforementioned DACs are completely new to me (Aesthetix, Ayre, Calyx, M2Tech) and have a lot of reading to do!
 

I'm going to try my best to stick to my plan of going for the O2 MKII and a lower-end (but adequate) amp, will upgrade my DAC around Christmas, and aim for the BHSE in a year or two.  My gf doesn't think I have the self-restraint, though, and will pull the trigger on the BHSE sooner

 
I've pretty much committed to buying the SR-007 O2 MKII and a GES this week (both mentally and in writing).  I will miss my solid-state setup, but when I inevitably return to solid-state, the LCD2 or one of the HEs is at the top of my list (probably paired with a GS-X).  I've read mixed things from the technical/DIY crowd on the SR-009s so I'll hopefully have a chance to demo them at the next Bay Area meet, but most people seem to love the SR-007 MKII.
 
I've heard the KGSS is the logical step down from the BHSE but that's $500-1000 above I want to spend right now, and KGSSes are uncommon on FS forums and get snapped up pretty quick.  I read some people who seem credible in the technical crowd who say the GES is competent for the SR-007 MKII as a first electrostat amp, or the SRM-323S or a modded SRM-T1.  I can't find any head-to-head comparisons of the SRM-323S vs the GES, but from looking at the specs and price, they seem roughly in the same category so I should hopefully be fine, and the GES (like most Woo gear) has good resaleability and straightforward maintenance and modding potential.  I'm not a big Sennheiser fan, so I have my heart set on the Stax.

6Moons described the Invicta as sounding near identical to the Minerva/DAC2 in their review. That's not bad, but for $4K I think maybe you can do better. I would expect the Overdrive to easily outperform the Minerva for example. Unfortunately both the asynchronous Overdrive and the Invicta are quite new, so finding them on the used market won't be easy. I've seen several AA DAC1 Mk4s in the last few months on Audiogon, both as private sales and dealer demos. If you really want one I'm sure you can track one down. Their TOTL Tube DAC II is actually more commonly for sale than the lower DAC1, but it's limited to 48kHz, no high-res, which makes me wonder what DAC chips they are using in there. There used to be a fairly steady supply of used Theta Gen VIIIs for around $3500, but that seems to have dried up. All I see on A-gon at the moment is a single dealer demo Gen VIII S2. 
 
It is worth mentioning that a DAC8 is for sale right now at $3500, and there are a couple of Alpha DACs for sale. The older AR DAC7 is also a very common on the used market, with a price around $2000.
 
As for your amp, I would suggest getting the SRM-323S over the GES while you wait for a BHSE. It costs half as much as a well equipped version of the GES, and given your musical tastes, I think you'll be happier with the sound from the 323.
 

 

[MaZa]

Quote:

It's worth noting that the Rev 2 of the LCD-2 seems to have more treble, this was confirmed by Tyll's measurements I believe.
 

Thanks for the info! LCD-2 is definetly back in my to-hear list.

 

[Elysian]

I've been scouring the HF archives through Google but was having no luck finding any information on the following question.  Does anyone know if the Berkeley Audio DAC Alpha would pair well with the SR-007s?  After spending too many hours digging through reviews for $2-5k DACs, I think I have my heart set on the BADA.
 
Also, would anyone have any recommendations on good websites to look for used equipment (high-end DACs)?  I check Audiogon frequently but the last BADA is going to be removed from listing.  It seems like the Minerva is a bit cheaper used, but I like how the comparison reviews say the BADA is more analog sounding than the Minerva.  There are a few dealers where I live, but I'd like to prioritize a used unit; I don't want to pester a dealer unless I'm ready to buy new.
 
I don't meet the posting guidelines for a WTB post on HF yet, and it seems like there have only been a few posted on the HF classifieds.  Thanks for any help on this request!

 

[n3rdling]

Pretty much audiogon, here, and canuckaudiomart.

 

[Elysian]

Thanks!  I will put canuckaudiomart into my daily searches, too.