[Vamp898]

Honestly don't think the lower mids dip is as bad as they claim. It's done on purpose for a V shape and amplifies the perception of space that the Z1R's immense soundstage already provides. But I probably don't think it's an issue because I predominantly listen to female vocals and that's what I listened to when I demo-ed the Z1R. Can't recall my experience with Z1R and male vocals though.

Thats exactly where the female vocals are

On average, Male vocals go from upper bass to lower mids while female vocals go from lower mids to mids.

So female vocals are more affected by the reduced mids than male vocals

 

[SCYJ]

Thats exactly where the female vocals are

On average, Male vocals go from upper bass to lower mids while female vocals go from lower mids to mids.

So female vocals are more affected by the reduced mids than male vocals

Well, that's what I thought. But the funny thing is, most people I've read who complained about Z1R mids said that it affects male vocals alot more. Even Crinacle (who shills the Z1R) said that Z1R mids affect male vocals, in his Z1R video.

Regardless, I don't find any issue with female vocals on the Z1R. Perfectly balanced, natural, centre stage. Sure, it's not forward, but its not overly recessed either.

 

[PixelSquish]

Well, that's what I thought. But the funny thing is, most people I've read who complained about Z1R mids said that it affects male vocals alot more. Even Crinacle (who shills the Z1R) said that Z1R mids affect male vocals, in his Z1R video.

Regardless, I don't find any issue with female vocals on the Z1R. Perfectly balanced, natural, centre stage. Sure, it's not forward, but its not overly recessed either.

I too thought the Z1R were pretty good with female vocals but were lacking in male vocals.

 

[nc8000]

Well, that's what I thought. But the funny thing is, most people I've read who complained about Z1R mids said that it affects male vocals alot more. Even Crinacle (who shills the Z1R) said that Z1R mids affect male vocals, in his Z1R video.

Regardless, I don't find any issue with female vocals on the Z1R. Perfectly balanced, natural, centre stage. Sure, it's not forward, but its not overly recessed either.

Yes I have no issue with the mids on the Z1R

 

[dleblanc343]

To this day I still love my Z1R and as the market evolves, the Z1R's value continues to grow - goes to show that the multi-kilobuck scene isn't growing (though the upper-mid to Hi-Fi range is increasingly competitive 1K - 1.5K)

Z1R remains a "GOAT" when it comes to bass, still outclassing the likes of some of the best overall sets I've heard or owned like Mentor Multiverse, Annihilator 2023, Storm and proclaimed "bass" sets like Maestro SE, Legend Evo & Singularity.

That in itself is impressive seeing that it's from 2017, but the fantastic part about Z1R is that it's not a one-trick pony. It's one of the best at dynamics (especially macro), has a holographic and enveloping stage, extremely well-textured treble as well as bass & its mids are better than people give credit for. Its weakness would be a generally less lively lower midrange tone, though it's still fine, just that the BA driver is less special than the dynamic counterparts.

I also own Volur, and personally do believe it is slightly better overall but it's more of a case of them trading blows. Now value adjusted, of course the Sony is a better buy, but the Volur is a more refined and versatile set, though losing out a bit on engagement and the sense of grandeur the Z1R has. The Volur is a bit tighter in the bass and definitely hitting harder in the sub, but less weighty and rumbly than Z1R in the midbass. It is more even-keel in the midrange, forgiving in the treble, but wispier in the upper treble/ air which sometimes adds a certain effect of artificiality on poorly recorded tracks. This really only being apparent beyond ~13.5kHz and especially peaking at 15kHz, so for some this set's treble will come across as quite a bit darker than others if they don't hear the air boost. Volur really is a weird love-child of other 64A products (U12T/U4S with slight less midbass than Nio; though outright better than each individually) - 64 Audio's house sound is consistent in sounding like a clean monitor mid-to-high with slightly forgiving mids - it's not always the most exciting and can sound thin on some models. What makes the Volur my favorite is they added ground-breaking (or shaking) bass quality.

One part I commend on Volur is that it's not only generic off the shelf drivers being used, but they've had a fully custom DD unit made as well as waveguides installed to their tia super tweeter. This is engineering at work which yields a different result than anything before in that it is extremely resolving with clean transient lines. The midrange is, like the U4S, the range that doesn't keep up quite as nicely.

 

[gLer]

Thats exactly where the female vocals are

On average, Male vocals go from upper bass to lower mids while female vocals go from lower mids to mids.

So female vocals are more affected by the reduced mids than male vocals

Z1R is one of the best monitors on the planet for female vocals. It's the #1 reason I resonate with them, even more so than bass or stage. So no, female vocals are definitely not recessed on Z1R. Male vocals are slightly less forward, but that's ok with male vocals. For me it's a good compromise for a larger stage, and since I don't listen to too many male vocals anyway, it doesn't really affect me personally.

 

[zenki]

@PixelSquish So between Z1R & Volur, who owns the tech. dept? (stage, imaging etc2)

 

[PixelSquish]

To this day I still love my Z1R and as the market evolves, the Z1R's value continues to grow - goes to show that the multi-kilobuck scene isn't growing (though the upper-mid to Hi-Fi range is increasingly competitive 1K - 1.5K)

Z1R remains a "GOAT" when it comes to bass, still outclassing the likes of some of the best overall sets I've heard or owned like Mentor Multiverse, Annihilator 2023, Storm and proclaimed "bass" sets like Maestro SE, Legend Evo & Singularity.

That in itself is impressive seeing that it's from 2017, but the fantastic part about Z1R is that it's not a one-trick pony. It's one of the best at dynamics (especially macro), has a holographic and enveloping stage, extremely well-textured treble as well as bass & its mids are better than people give credit for. Its weakness would be a generally less lively lower midrange tone, though it's still fine, just that the BA driver is less special than the dynamic counterparts.

I also own Volur, and personally do believe it is slightly better overall but it's more of a case of them trading blows. Now value adjusted, of course the Sony is a better buy, but the Volur is a more refined and versatile set, though losing out a bit on engagement and the sense of grandeur the Z1R has. The Volur is a bit tighter in the bass and definitely hitting harder in the sub, but less weighty and rumbly than Z1R in the midbass. It is more even-keel in the midrange, forgiving in the treble, but wispier in the upper treble/ air which sometimes adds a certain effect of artificiality on poorly recorded tracks. This really only being apparent beyond ~13.5kHz and especially peaking at 15kHz, so for some this set's treble will come across as quite a bit darker than others if they don't hear the air boost. Volur really is a weird love-child of other 64A products (U12T/U4S with slight less midbass than Nio; though outright better than each individually) - 64 Audio's house sound is consistent in sounding like a clean monitor mid-to-high with slightly forgiving mids - it's not always the most exciting and can sound thin on some models. What makes the Volur my favorite is they added ground-breaking (or shaking) bass quality.

One part I commend on Volur is that it's not only generic off the shelf drivers being used, but they've had a fully custom DD unit made as well as waveguides installed to their tia super tweeter. This is engineering at work which yields a different result than anything before in that it is extremely resolving with clean transient lines. The midrange is, like the U4S, the range that doesn't keep up quite as nicely.

Exactly. I find the bass between the two both of excellent quality, which is why when someone said what could possible be as good as the bass of the Z1R, I said the Volur. I also agree with your opinion on the bass presentation differences, but there are multiple tracks I could hear where I could simply not tell you which bass presentation I liked better. It was a really good first world problem to have.

Each overall presentation across the whole spectrum is different though, and each IEM to me could be the better one to any given person. I had to get rid of one to try to find a faster more mid and treble centered IEM and I happened to choose to keep the Volur because it just suits me better overall for more of the music I like. I wish I could have kept both. But as far as bass goes, they are both absolutely insanely good, but some people got miffed that I dared say that the Z1R bass could be actually rivaled.

If I could have six 2K plus IEM's, I'd have kept both. But right now, I can only have two, so the Z1R went out to be traded. That is purely my subjective opinion with my ears and my music library.

 

[osocan]

Z1R is one of the best monitors on the planet for female vocals. It's the #1 reason I resonate with them, even more so than bass or stage. So no, female vocals are definitely not recessed on Z1R. Male vocals are slightly less forward, but that's ok with male vocals. For me it's a good compromise for a larger stage, and since I don't listen to too many male vocals anyway, it doesn't really affect me personally.

Love my Z1R.

My experience is the same as well. Female vocals are not affected at all. I don’t listen to male vocals that much and in the rare occasions that I do I didn’t hear any impact. If there were any it didnt affect my enjoyment.

To my ears, where there’s an actual effect, it’s the electric guitar melody backing to the vocals. If the electric guitar response is big part of the whole emotive experience, then it does detract from the whole experience.

But the thing is, you’d probably wouldn’t notice it in the first place. I didn’t. Despite feedback from experienced head-fiers. It was only upon listening to 2 specific monitors that this recessed mids at a very specific FR region became obvious.

If we listen critically or analytically, we are sure to find flaws. There’s no perfect IEMs out there. But I don’t do that, I listen to music for the enjoyment and the Z1R is right up there in terms of the listening pleasures it gives to me, musically.

 

[The1Signature]

Pentaconn Coreir Brass L vs. Final Audio E LL.

So the hight is the same but the E is 13.5 mm at the widest while the Brass is 14 mm. Also the shape is different. The channel has a larger diameter on the Brass

i used to use final M (11,8), later L (12,5).
yesterday, i switched to pentaconn M (13) and i feel that they are just a little bit too large. The bass minimized (usually happens when ear tips are too large).

hence, i have to try pentaconn MS (12), which is between final M and final L.

 

[Valrhona]

If we listen critically or analytically, we are sure to find flaws. There’s no perfect IEMs out there. But I don’t do that, I listen to music for the enjoyment

Well said.
A man wholeheartedly agrees.

 

[Waddiewadkins]

I wonder what my.cut off limit would be on comfort quality scale comog down to choosing. If an iem was 90% of another but twice as comfortable I'd go with comfort. If it was 85% maybe still but no less than that. The IE range has that going for them for those whom that matters

 

[nc8000]

I wonder what my.cut off limit would be on comfort quality scale comog down to choosing. If an iem was 90% of another but twice as comfortable I'd go with comfort. If it was 85% maybe still but no less than that. The IE range has that going for them for those whom that matters

Comfort is certainly a parameter, it is no good if something sounds fantastic buy one can only use it 10 minutes due to pain or lack of comfort

 

[gerelmx1986]

Now i have discovered why one feels the air movemwnt with Z1R. The shells touch the skin of the canals and transmit the vibrations of the 12mm DD to your skin

 

[Waddiewadkins]

Comfort is certainly a parameter, it is no good if something sounds fantastic buy one can only use it 10 minutes due to pain or lack of comfort

Or just putting up with something for years