[MattTCG]

nice to see what Matt's secret weapon was with his HD800 at Canlanta, haha.  I've now also gone to the Sonarworks HD800 darkside (or rather neutralside).  Truly a game changer with these cans, as they take the HD800's raw resolution, low distortion and soundstage and then give you a completely natural tonal balance.  I pair it with GoodHertz can opener and Goodhertz mid-side.  Then you throw on a transparent DAC and amp with great dynamicism and it's absolutely the best headphone sound I've ever heard, including stuff I've heard at meets.

also, I am gonna send my lawton mod emu ebony cup THX00 into sonarworks as well.  The lawton mods really cut down on THD and ringing, interested to see if sonarworks gets it to the last little piece

Also, for the guy saying "I can't wait to get some colored headphones on after using it, like Grados."  They do have the GS1000 simulation, that to my ears is dead spot on.

OK so my secret is out. The HD 800 with this eq is simply stunning. Has to be experienced to be believed.

 

[fjrabon]

OK so my secret is out. The HD 800 with this eq is simply stunning. Has to be experienced to be believed.

yeah, meeting up with purk this week to listen to the sonarworks -> GoodHertz -> iDAC6 -> Torpedo III -> HD800 setup.  I feel like a lot of people's hesitation on DSP EQ comes from the crappy implementations.  Companies like Sonarworks and Goodhertz, who cater to pro audio and have fully 64 bit DSP implementations are a completely different beast than most of the EQ systems people used a couple of years ago, which did noticeably degrade the signal.  
 
I honestly believe at this point that the EQ implementation from these pro audio companies (even putting aside the measurement calibrations, just talking the EQ processing) has reached a point where it's surpassed hardware EQ in cleanliness of sound, in addition to vastly lapping it in features and ease of use.

 

[thecrow]

OK so my secret is out. The HD 800 with this eq is simply stunning. Has to be experienced to be believed.

 

 
Companies like Sonarworks and Goodhertz, who cater to pro audio and have fully 64 bit DSP implementations are a completely different beast than most of the EQ systems people used a couple of years ago, which did noticeably degrade the signal.  
 

 
I'm currently tweaking my desktop set up with cables and eq.
 
i'm going to be looking at goodhertz with what you people have said and am currently in my trial period of sonarworks
I also have an eq (focusrite scarlett) which i'm getting benefits from
 
for just playback purposes is sonarworks an eq that essentially has these neutral/pre determined presets that can be tweaked through it's tilting of the reference curve or is it more than that as far as playback eqing is concerned?
 
what are the benefits of using sonarworks with anther eq?
 
your further info of this software is much welcomed
 
cheers
peter t

 

[fjrabon]

In theory Sonarworks isn't anything you couldn't do with a very powerful parametric EQ with a LOT of knobs.  Theoretically if you had a great ear, a clear sense of neutral and spent hours with sine wave sweeps, you could, by hand create a calibration curve.  In practice, with the complicated peaks and valleys headphones have, this is near impossible to do anything other than a very rough sense.  
 
Sonarworks has two primary benefits:
 
1) It's an extremely well implemented EQ.  They don't cut corners in the processing compartment.  It used to be the case that people complained about DSP parametric EQ that it severely degraded the bitperfect digital signal, and there was certainly some truth to that with certain programs.  Sonarworks, however is a extremely high quality processing.  It does take a decently powerful computer to run it seamlessly. But it's more or less transparent in the signal path.  It just works without adding in any digital nasties
 
2) They take the hard work of painstakingly creating your own EQ profile and quickly get you to neutral with the calibration profiles.  They then give you some very basic controls to adjust the overall tonality.  I use the custom calibration a lot with 4dB of bass and then a treble tilt of 4 dB, giving a very soft, very gradual U curve.  But on some recordings i can quickly click over to the flat setting.  Or I can mimic the GS1000, or I can mimic generalized large room speakers.  It's not unlimited as to what you can do, but there are a lot of options for tailoring your sound.  You don't have the control of a parametric EQ, but you have more than enough control.  And you can always use an EQ after in the chain as well, which allows Sonarworks to do the hard part of getting you to neutral, and then you can make a few tweaks with another pogram, without having to worry about precise corrections of irregular peaks.  However, I think very few people will need more tailoring options than Sonarworks allows for within the program.  The very basic bass and tilt controls work great if you have a neutral starting point, which Sonarworks provides.

 

[thecrow]

  Sonarworks has two primary benefits:
 
1) It's an extremely well implemented EQ.  Sonarworks, however is a extremely high quality processing.  It does take a decently powerful computer to run it seamlessly. But it's more or less transparent in the signal path.  It just works without adding in any digital nasties
 
2) They take the hard work of painstakingly creating your own EQ profile and quickly get you to neutral with the calibration profiles.  They then give you some very basic controls to adjust the overall tonality. 

thanks heaps for taking the time to forward the great reply
 
and from what i've seen so far in my trial, i agree

 

[DivineCurrent]

I recently had the chance to listen to the HD800 S, and LCD-X. And I must say, the HD650 with the individual calibration Sonarworks simply sounds better to me than both the 800S and LCD-X by themselves. Now, I'm not trying to be an advertisement for Sonarworks, but it really is that good, that it transforms the HD650 into a headphone that competes with $1000 + headphones. Now, of course the HD800 has vastly wider soudstage and better imaging, and i cant wait to try them with the software eventually.

 

[edwardsean]

  I honestly believe at this point that the EQ implementation from these pro audio companies (even putting aside the measurement calibrations, just talking the EQ processing) has reached a point where it's surpassed hardware EQ in cleanliness of sound, in addition to vastly lapping it in features and ease of use.

 
I have to agree. Software EQs have just been unbelievable good in these years in terms of functionality and sound quality. I'm also one that adds another EQ post Sonarworks. Sonarworks takes me to neutral, but then I add a small amount of EQ to suit my own taste and system. 
 
The thing is when you're looking for pro-quality EQs, there really is an embarrassment of riches out there, and they range from cheap to hundreds of dollars. I already had a pretty decent collection of some great EQs from doing pro audio. I went through the best and old-standbys, DMG, Sonnox, Waves, etc. The thing is many of them are expensive and offer many features that an audiophile would never use. More importantly, even the surgical "mastering" EQs aren't always quite transparent. Many of the best EQ plugs are sought after for the subtle character they impart. 
 
So, I just wanted to mention Apulsoft Apqualizr as a reasonably priced EQ that does transparency really well. 
 
Also, just to spin my broken record, OOYH virtual speaker completes a great DSP chain. 

 

[thecrow]

 
yeah, meeting up with purk this week to listen to the sonarworks -> GoodHertz -> iDAC6 -> Torpedo III -> HD800 setup.  I feel like a lot of people's hesitation on DSP EQ comes from the crappy implementations.  Companies like Sonarworks and Goodhertz, who cater to pro audio and have fully 64 bit DSP implementations are a completely different beast than most of the EQ systems people used a couple of years ago, which did noticeably degrade the signal.  
 
I honestly believe at this point that the EQ implementation from these pro audio companies (even putting aside the measurement calibrations, just talking the EQ processing) has reached a point where it's surpassed hardware EQ in cleanliness of sound, in addition to vastly lapping it in features and ease of use.

which progra from goodhertz is the eq that yiu use? is it the tone control? or another one from the website?
 
cheers

 

[fjrabon]

which progra from goodhertz is the eq that yiu use? is it the tone control? or another one from the website?

cheers

With goodhertz I don't use their EQ programs. Sonarworks has a powerful enough EQ for me. My DSP chain is:

Sonarworks (calibration and EQ) -> goodhertz MidSide (controls soundstage width) -> goodhertz CanOpener (crossfeed, makes the soundstage more connected and natural).

Tone control however would be a good EQ program to put in the chain after sonarworks if you wanted more power in your signature shaping, but didn't want to use parametric EQ. I've used tone control and it sounds very good and is simple and easy to use. But after my trial was up I just didn't feel like I needed it in addition to the controls already in Sonarworks.

 

[thecrow]

With goodhertz I don't use their EQ programs. Sonarworks has a powerful enough EQ for me. My DSP chain is:

Sonarworks (calibration and EQ) -> goodhertz MidSide (controls soundstage width) -> goodhertz CanOpener (crossfeed, makes the soundstage more connected and natural).

Tone control however would be a good EQ program to put in the chain after sonarworks if you wanted more power in your signature shaping, but didn't want to use parametric EQ. I've used tone control and it sounds very good and is simple and easy to use. But after my trial was up I just didn't feel like I needed it in addition to the controls already in Sonarworks.

Is canopener for osx (and ios)?

Im assuming from what i saw that with ios it only works with the ios music app and not other apps like tidal

 

[fjrabon]

Is canopener for osx (and ios)?

Im assuming from what i saw that with ios it only works with the ios music app and not other apps like tidal

I use the OS X version. With it it processes all your system audio like any other au plug in.

 

[thecrow]

I use the OS X version. With it it processes all your system audio like any other au plug in.

Thanks again for your info

 

[remedy1419]

trying out sonarworks with the average hd800 profile it comes with and the universal profile from this thread. running an hd800 off an uber bifrost and bottlehead crack w/ speedball.
 
let me start by saying I don't use EQ's or even understand how they work, but regardless I'll continue. 
 
99% of the comments in this thread with the hd800 say that it lifts a kind of veil, but to me it seems like when i have the calibration on, the soundstage seems smaller? not sure if it's lowering the volume of sounds that are kind of ambient, but in almost everything i've listened to with it on, it just seems like the soundstage isn't as massive and encompassing as with it on. 
 
anyone want to chime in and tell me where i'm wrong or what i'm not understanding?

 

[hekeli]

It's supposed to change tonality, "not lift a veil" (who said that?). Some "air" will no doubt be removed as the 6khz region is dropped down and bass increased. Thus a thicker sound. If you don't like it, you can try adjusting the wet knob for less effect.

 

[edwardsean]

  trying out sonarworks with the average hd800 profile it comes with and the universal profile from this thread. running an hd800 off an uber bifrost and bottlehead crack w/ speedball.
 
let me start by saying I don't use EQ's or even understand how they work, but regardless I'll continue. 
 
99% of the comments in this thread with the hd800 say that it lifts a kind of veil, but to me it seems like when i have the calibration on, the soundstage seems smaller? not sure if it's lowering the volume of sounds that are kind of ambient, but in almost everything i've listened to with it on, it just seems like the soundstage isn't as massive and encompassing as with it on. 
 
anyone want to chime in and tell me where i'm wrong or what i'm not understanding?

Yeah, soundstage perception is an interesting thing, and like yourself soundstage is really important to me. That's why I've stuck with the HD800 for so long, even as so many great phones have come along. The HD800 does such a great job of projecting a huge airy stage.
 
I think what might be happening is that sonarworks has leveled up some of the lower frequency "gaps" which does give that "thicker" sound that Hekeli mentioned. However, leveling down the 6Khz region will not affect soundstage negatively that much. The "air" frequencies are higher up and these get a boost with sonarworks, which is why people might hear a "lifting of a veil."
 
What I would suggest even more than dialing back the mix is going to the custom setting and adjusting down the bass boost and tilt. You may want to start by just pressing the "optimum" button, and going from there. I think that might be what you're looking for in terms of bringing back the stage to what you enjoyed.