sorry i was having a whine it's just that i expected more from these from what i had read.
I did not mean to make any 'sweeping generalisations' tho' it occurred to me that maybe the 'reviews' i had read maybe came from people who had only listened thru stock phones previously....which the porta pros sound much better by a long way...!!
Also, i said that they are FOR the ipod generation, not FROM, i am well aware they are an 80's design, which i suppose is testament to them....maybe my ears are sihte!!
I will try some of the mods suggested, thanks, im not saying they are bad, just not what i expected.