[whodiini]

Starting a new thread for the Singxer Su-6 reclocker. Purpose is similar to the Singxer SU-1, which I dont own and the Matrix SPDIF 2, and the Mutec MC3+, both of which I own and will compare.

Just got it today, and my initial impression is that it is pretty darn good. I use these to take a USB signal from my mac mini and convert to AES/EBU that I pipe into various DACs like the Schiit Yggadrasil. I used to use a mac mini firewire output to a SPDIF converter to an Apogee Big Ben, but replaced that once firewire stopped being on macs. The Singxer SU-6 seems to have better clarity of musical lines and cleaner instrumentals. Also dynamics and bass is better. In comparison to both the Matrix and Mutec, which are no slouches. The matrix was comparable to the Mutec, and the SU-6 so far is better than both.

I will update once I run it in a few days.

I have now compared the unit with the stock power supply and with an ifi lower noise unit. I cannot hear any difference. That means the supercap must isolate the line noise pretty well. The su6 continues to perform admirably and have no issues. It is my default unit and has displaced both the matrix spdif 2 and the mutex which are both very fine units.

 

[SirOli]

The Singxer SU-6 seems to have better clarity of musical lines and cleaner instrumentals. Also dynamics and bass is better. In comparison to both the Matrix and Mutec, which are no slouches. The matrix was comparable to the Mutec, and the SU-6 so far is better than both.

Got mine too this week.
I can confirm the quoted properties. The music gets more transparent and relaxed.
The bass is better controlled and a bit punchier. I have no other reclocker to compare but I like it really much.
It works really good with my S.M.S.L SU8 dac.

 

[Alcophone]

Curious if anyone knows whether a Kitsune tuned edition is in the works.

 

[Thenewguy007]

Curious if anyone knows whether a Kitsune tuned edition is in the works.

I asked them & they said they would be looking into it, but noting certain.
The SU-6 is already expensive as it is, putting more mods into it & the cost would probably be close to a grand.

 

[whodiini]

After a few days, here's my impressions. It does sound different than other reclockers. Not a subtle change where you need to carefully do an A-B. It is obvious and from SirOli, corroborated with my impressions. The biggest change is that the musical lines are much more distinct. If one had a focus knob on the music, it turns the focus up. On piano, each note is more distinct, each note sounds more like a piano. Bass is more dynamic. I dont know if it is actually louder or the harmonics more coherent so it sounds louder. Because it changes what one hears in a significant way, I think one has to decide whether the sound is right for you. I like it. What I dont understand is how a reclocker whose job is simply to take the 0 and 1's and spit out the same 0 and 1's can sound so different. I have listened to the matrix spdif-2, the schiit eitr, the mutec MC3+ reclockers and they make a subtle difference - important but subtle difference. They removed a veil of clarity. I had to do several A-B to make sure what the differences were. On the Su-6, it was not subtle at all.

(One comment on my setup that I do not know yet (havent tried) is I dont use the standard switching power supply, I use a iFI power supply. Will get to replacing it and see if it makes a difference). So far, the other things of note on the downsides: 1) It doesnt come with a manual, so I still havent figured out how to set it up 2) there is a firmware updates available, but without a manual, I dont know how to update the firmware nor check which firmware I have 3) It doesnt seem to play well with my mac. In audio midi, I cant set anything. It defaults to 16 bit 44khz. I cant get it to be set to 24 bit, Although when I play a 88 khz or 96 khz song, it does pass it thru because my DAC autoswitches.

Is it worth the money? Its not cheap. On the other hand, it has an audio impact comparable to changing DACs. Depends if you like the change.

I will now test it on my 2 cheaper DACs, SMSL SU-8 and Topping DX7S v2. I am particularly interested to see how it affects the Topping DX7s, as (see my prior post on massdrop) I discovered that the topping seems to have an inferior implementation of the USB input and sounds much better as a DAC with SPDIF input whereas the SMSL SU-8 benefits less from SPDIF input compared to USB.

 

[peteg]

I would start here: https://download.shenzhenaudio.com/Singxer/SU-1 FIRMWARE/

The Singxer audio driver setup PDF should have the info you need to update the firmware.

 

[Alcophone]

What I dont understand is how a reclocker whose job is simply to take the 0 and 1's and spit out the same 0 and 1's can sound so different. I have listened to the matrix spdif-2, the schiit eitr, the mutec MC3+ reclockers and they make a subtle difference - important but subtle difference. They removed a veil of clarity. I had to do several A-B to make sure what the differences were. On the Su-6, it was not subtle at all.

There are two aspects to reclockers, one is to improve the timing of the signal change, i.e. when the DAC changes its analog output. At 44100 Hz the state changes are supposed to be exactly 1/44100 s apart, which is why you need a clock, and how accurate that clock is influences the sound. It is my understanding that in many DACs, S/PDIF or AES input means the that source provides the clock, and the SU-6 has an oven controlled oscillator, which is rare but could provide very stable results.
What I'm not sure about is whether Schiit's "clock regeneration" is equivalent to reclocking, in which case the source clock would just need to be precise enough to recover the bits perfectly, and then the Yggy's internal clocks would provide the actual "rhythm".

Yggdrasil accepts up to 5 digital inputs and carefully manages them with our Adapticlock™ clock regeneration system. Adapticlock is the most sophisticated clock management system in the world. It assesses the quality of all inputs, measures their incoming center frequency and jitter, and automatically routes the input to the best clock regeneration system.

The other aspect is power isolation from the source, of course.

I am particularly interested to see how it affects the Topping DX7s, as (see my prior post on massdrop) I discovered that the topping seems to have an inferior implementation of the USB input and sounds much better as a DAC with SPDIF input whereas the SMSL SU-8 benefits less from SPDIF input compared to USB.

That is interesting, I tend to use the DX7s's USB to coax converter (which works even without the power cord connected) to compare DACs - feed both DACs the same signal from the DX7's coax out via an RCA splitter and compare the sound.

Now, on Massdrop you write:

Finally, to corroborate, I ran USb straight from the mac mini into the DX7S and then ran the SPDIF out from the DX7S into my reference Yggadrasil. It sounded awful. So my conclusion is that the DX7S has a poor USB implementation even though it claims to use the same XMOS as the Su-8.

That is interesting to me because I never considered the result to sound awful when I did the same.

But I'm also yet to jump into the DDC game. The SU-6 hits a sweet spot for me since it's cheaper than the Mutec MC-3+ (though while losing a bunch of functionality, like reclocking non-USB sources, or recording those sources via USB) while containing an OCXO. @atomicbob likes to use the MC-3+ USB with an Antelope LiveClock as the word clock (which has an OCXO), which amounts to 3x the price of the SU-6 alone. It would be interesting to hear your impressions of using the Mutec MC-3+ with the Singxer SU-6 as the word clock. That might produce better results than the MC-3+ alone. Of course, I'd also like to see Bob measure the SU-6's jitter.

Edit: I do have a MUTEC MC-3+ USB and it is not bit-perfect when being used with an external clock, instead using asynchronous sample rate conversion. It is bit-perfect when using its internal clock only, though.

 

[whodiini]

I will try your suggestions. But I was not aware that the Singxer SU-6 uses an OCXO. According tp the specs it use two Crystek's CCHD-957, which have low phase noise but are not oven controlled crystals. The Crystek's CCHD-957 are ~ $30 each, while OCXO are much more.

 

[whodiini]

"using CRYSTEK's CCHD-957 high-performance femtosecond crystal oscillator, with the self-developed constant temperature system". Oh, I see the wording of the oven control - they made their own system. You're right, that's rare that a unit at this price point has one.

 

[whodiini]

That is interesting, I tend to use the DX7s's USB to coax converter (which works even without the power cord connected) to compare DACs - feed both DACs the same signal from the DX7's coax out via an RCA splitter and compare the sound.

Yes, I thought I could replace my Matrix SPDIF2 with the dx7s USB to coax but I found that it was far inferior to the Matrix - and like several other people, I found that the SMSL SU-8 was more pleasant sounding than the DX7s from USB input, which didnt make sense. When I have time, I will open up the DX7S and try to see why.

 

[Alcophone]

"using CRYSTEK's CCHD-957 high-performance femtosecond crystal oscillator, with the self-developed constant temperature system". Oh, I see the wording of the oven control - they made their own system. You're right, that's rare that a unit at this price point has one.

Yeah, when I first read that I just filed it as oven controlled, but there just might be a technical difference to what they are doing. Based on images from https://kitsunehifi.com/product/singxer-su6/:

 

[Alcophone]

Yes, I thought I could replace my Matrix SPDIF2 with the dx7s USB to coax but I found that it was far inferior to the Matrix - and like several other people, I found that the SMSL SU-8 was more pleasant sounding than the DX7s from USB input, which didnt make sense. When I have time, I will open up the DX7S and try to see why.

Currently trying Microsoft Surface Pro 4 > iFi iDefender > DX7s USB in > DX7s coax out > iFi S/PDIF iPurifier > DX7s coax in > Massdrop THX AAA 789 > XLR DUM cable > MrSpeakers Ether Flow 1.1. Switching between USB input and coax input. I'm liking coax better in this configuration. The bass is tighter, instruments sound more natural, transients more compelling, everything flows a bit better.
I briefly removed the iFi S/PDIF iPurifier from the chain (DX7s coax out > DX7s coax in) and then I don't hear a difference between USB and coax input anymore.

So I suspect you'll get better results with the SU-6, too. The just announced Topping DX7 Pro has an I2S input, btw. It does not have a coax out anymore, so the above approach would not work.

 

[comzee]

I know this is a pretty new device and not many people have their hands on it. I was wondering if anybody that owns the SU-6 also owns a PCIe clocker (like Lynx or RME).
Trying to find comparisons on the two.

 

[Baten]

I know this is a pretty new device and not many people have their hands on it. I was wondering if anybody that owns the SU-6 also owns a PCIe clocker (like Lynx or RME).
Trying to find comparisons on the two.

Just me but for AES/ebu I'd go Lynx/RME(pro devices), for other digital connections I'd go SU-6 or used upgraded SU-1.

 

[Zowie1]

Just me but for AES/ebu I'd go Lynx/RME(pro devices), for other digital connections I'd go SU-6 or used upgraded SU-1.

Could you post links to the Lynx/RME devices you mean?