[Spyro]

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When I had the SE535, it felt a bit like Grado RS-1.  Signature is quite similar.
From the treble roll off, feels like the highs cannot go past a certain point and this causes fatigue on certain genres.  Like cymbals, high vocals and highs from electronic.

 

Wouldn't a roll-off be LESS fatiguing versus full extension?  That is my experience.

 

[JeffA]

FWIW, I just concluded an extended in-home audition of both the Shure 535 Red Ltd. Edition and the Westone 4R. I am 53 years old, so I have suffered some hearing loss of treble information. The system: iPOD Classic, Cypher Labs Solo-R DAC, Apex Glacier amplifier. I kept the Westone 4s. First, I found the Westone's more comfortable. Second, I found the Westone's more natural sounding. Vocals on the 535 sounded more tipped up and a little hollow. I had an easier time picking up the words in the vocals with the Westones. The soundstage with the 4Rs was less congested, more articulate. Also, the soundstage was narrower with the 535s. Bass was obviously more apparent with the Westones. My guess is that the greater bass foundation largely explains the overall difference in the sound signature. Ultimately, whether it was due to the larger size of the Shures or the sound presentation, I found the 535s more tiring and annoying over longer listening sessions. I found I could easily listen to the Westones for a few hours without hardly noticing they were there. With the Shures, I had to take them off to rest my ears.
 
I have a reference system with a Bryston digital server, Berkeley DAC, Mjolnir amp, and Senn HD800. I also use a Senn 600 with my portable system. I found the Westone 4s to be more in line with those systems. The 535 was really the outlier. 

 

[Mooses9]

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Wouldn't a roll-off be LESS fatiguing versus full extension?  That is my experience.

yes, but it also depends on how forward the highs are, the highs can be fatiguing if they are forward even if they roll off. you could also get fatiguing highs that are less forward but have more extension.

 

[Syan25]

The SE535s do roll off in the highs but it isn't that noticeable to me. As everyone knows - the mids are forward - but I don't find the highs a problem like some people do. And I never get fatigued by them either.

 

[luisdent]

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The SE535s do roll off in the highs but it isn't that noticeable to me. As everyone knows - the mids are forward - but I don't find the highs a problem like some people do. And I never get fatigued by them either.

This has a lot to do with both hearing ability in high frequency extension and preference.  I personally hear it a lot.  They're very flat up to the treble point, which is why they sound so nice as they are, but the treble drops off way too fast for me.  The westones have mid bass bloat, but that is easy to eq away than restoring the strong roll off that doesn't extend well.
 
As for fatigue, rolled off highs are not necessarily better.  If you had hash fatiguing highs, rolling them off might help, but I've heard some excellent very flat treble earphones that are easier to listen to than the 535 by a good margin.  It has a lot to do with soundstage, forwardness, stereo separation, etc.  But ultimately, a perfectly flat response shouldn't be at all fatiguing unless the recording is fatiguing (a LOT of modern music is recorded horribly and can be fatiguing).

 

[moseboy]

I'm aware that I'm in the minority on this, but for what it's worth, I've owned both the SE530 and the SE535. I love the 530s. Sold the 535s because I found them sibilant.

But then again I'm really sensitive to sibilance.

 

[zenki14]

edit: actually others already said what I wanted to say.

 

[pacman46]

I feel the same about the w4.  I felt the 535 was more enjoyable despite the roll off.  However, the roll off was too much for me in the treble.  With eq applied, I think they are both excellent.  The 4r really opens up and draws you in more if you eq them properly...

I find with the 535 amped the highs open up a bit more. But they sound better unamped then the w4r does to me. But I find the w4r really opens up and sounds a lot better amped. I also find that the w4r at first does sound more boring then the 535 but once I listened to the w4r more and more I liked them more then the 535. I think it takes longer for your brain to figure what's going on with the w4r but once it does wow it really is a amazing iem. You really notice that once you listen to them for a while then change to a different iem like the 535. They are both great iems in their own way. However I just recently bought the er4s and to me both of the 535 and the w4r sounds bloated and coloured compared to the etys. Specially after listening to the etys for a while then change back to the others. Personally I think that the er4s's are one of the most underrated iems on the marked and for like almost half the price of the other two. Just my opinion of corse but after hearing the er4s's now for a while the other two are WAY over priced. Again this is just IMO. Happy listening

 

[luisdent]

I wouldn't touch the 535 or 4r over the er4s.  I think it's in a different class personally.

 

[pacman46]

I wouldn't touch the 535 or 4r over the er4s.  I think it's in a different class personally.

So just to be clear your saying that you like and think the er4s is a better iem then both the 535 and the w4r ?? Lol just curios. Cause I think it is myself. I personally don't know how shure and Westone gets away with charging as much as they do for those iems knowing that the etys IMO are that much better. I have all three and yes I also paid the price to find this out. Lol.

 

[Mooses9]

Eh its all prefrence. Your iems are 9nly goung to sound as good as your pairing equipment with those iems.

Imo I have tried alot of universal iems and come to the conclusion that this statement runs deep in this hobby and thats "at a certain price range nothing is better or worse just different" and with my experience that is very true.

Alot of times wheb you have a certain budget say 500.00 at thst price point the w4r 535 etys and others are basicly the same but different. Each iem has one thing or another to offer and bring to the table it really comes down to prefrence of sound and what your looking for...

 

[satanigatan]

I posted this in the Westone 4 thread. But my SE-535 won't come in until Tuesday. I got the 4R's today. It's a really big jump in sound signature for me (going from the HD-650, LCD-2, and SE-215 IEM). The details on these are simply fantastic. But at least to my ears, it sounds kind of thin. I'm used to a little more weight to the music. Not saying I don't like it, I just need some more time with it. 
 
But yeah, maybe it's just because I'm used to a darker sound signature, but the 4R's don't really have a full sound for me personally, they are more thin/fast/precise. Then again, maybe my idea of "full" is a little different than others. Given my ears are usually sensitive to treble, or anything with a bite, I'm thinking these might give me fatigue. But I guess I'll find that out in a couple hours of listening. 

One thing I love about the 4R is how light they are. Unlike the SE-215, these fit more comfortable in my ears. So that's really nice. I believe the 535 is even bigger than the 215, so that will be interesting. I think it's interesting how different people describe various headphones. This is an obvious statement (as everyone has unique hearing, and their own personal preference). But I've heard some people say the 4R has sibilance, and was too harsh for them. Yet, the majority of descriptions for the 4R say they are very flat/neutral sound signature. And a couple users in this thread said the 535 have sibilance and gave them fatigue. 

 

[luisdent]

Quote:

I posted this in the Westone 4 thread. But my SE-535 won't come in until Tuesday. I got the 4R's today. It's a really big jump in sound signature for me (going from the HD-650, LCD-2, and SE-215 IEM). The details on these are simply fantastic. But at least to my ears, it sounds kind of thin. I'm used to a little more weight to the music. Not saying I don't like it, I just need some more time with it. 
 
But yeah, maybe it's just because I'm used to a darker sound signature, but the 4R's don't really have a full sound for me personally, they are more thin/fast/precise. Then again, maybe my idea of "full" is a little different than others. Given my ears are usually sensitive to treble, or anything with a bite, I'm thinking these might give me fatigue. But I guess I'll find that out in a couple hours of listening. 

One thing I love about the 4R is how light they are. Unlike the SE-215, these fit more comfortable in my ears. So that's really nice. I believe the 535 is even bigger than the 215, so that will be interesting. I think it's interesting how different people describe various headphones. This is an obvious statement (as everyone has unique hearing, and their own personal preference). But I've heard some people say the 4R has sibilance, and was too harsh for them. Yet, the majority of descriptions for the 4R say they are very flat/neutral sound signature. And a couple users in this thread said the 535 have sibilance and gave them fatigue. 

 
Hd650 from sennheiser?  The 4r is thin?  I think something's wrong here.  The hd650 should sound full and very balanced.  The 4r is warmer with more midbass in comparison and less detailed without eq... Are you getting a proper seal/fit with the 4r?  What source are you using?  They are very influenced by output impedance...

 

[LFC_SL]

Do not want to turn this into the W4 thread when there is already one for it, but my guess is source / amp matching. And are you getting a seal
 
As I said a few pages ago, some IEM sound better straight out of a smartphone than others. And some IEM achieve different synergy with external dac / amp

 

[Mooses9]

I posted this in the Westone 4 thread. But my SE-535 won't come in until Tuesday. I got the 4R's today. It's a really big jump in sound signature for me (going from the HD-65nd SE-215 IEM). The details on these are simply fantastic. But at least to my ears, it sounds kind of thin. I'm used to a little more weight to the music. Not saying I don't like it, I just need some more time with it. 

But yeah, maybe it's just because I'm used to a darker sound signature, but the 4R's don't really have a full sound for me personally, they are more thin/fast/precise. Then again, maybe my idea of "full" is a little different than others. Given my ears are usually sensitive to treble, or anything with a bite, I'm thinking these might give me fatigue. But I guess I'll find that out in a couple hours of listening. 


One thing I love about the 4R is how light they are. Unlike the SE-215, these fit more comfortable in my ears. So that's really nice. I believe the 535 is even bigger than the 215, so that will be interesting. I think it's interesting how different people describe various headphones. This is an obvious statement (as everyone has unique hearing, and their own personal preference). But I've heard some people say the 4R has sibilance, and was too harsh for them. Yet, the majority of descriptions for the 4R say they are very flat/neutral sound signature. And a couple users in this thread said the 535 have sibilance and gave them fatigue. 

What kind of dac are you usimng with the w4? I found them to be incredibly fast and even faster with the algorhythm solo. As fast as the akg k701 or faster which imo the 701s are pretty fast imo..I was suprised at how they can keep up with edm, dance, trance, techno ect tyey have this overall effortlessness to them.