[Kalli]

That's nice.
Most times are measured with ANC on by the manufacturer I think.
ANC off can make a huge difference, depending on how the chip design is I think.

 

[angelom]

That's nice.
Most times are measured with ANC on by the manufacturer I think.
ANC off can make a huge difference, depending on how the chip design is I think.

More manufacturers only mentioning max number of hours and isn't specific of anc is on or off. B&O and Sony are only companies that I know that is mentioning max hours with anc on or off (25 hours anc on, 32 hours anc on for b&o h9 3rd gen, and 30 hours anc on, 38 hours anc off for sony xm3).

• Bowers and willings saying px7 offering 30 hours with anc on.
• Bose nc700 only saying "up to 20 hours" and isn't specific if anc on or off.
• Shure sa50 saying only "Up to 20 hours battery life provides uninterrupted audio wherever you go" and isn't specific.
• Dali io-6 saying "provides a best-in-class 30 hour battery life" and isn't specific.

I never measuring sa50 with anc on all the time or partially, but is interesting that shure saying 20 hours and I obtaining 23h 15m with anc off. With momentum 3 sennheiser is saying 17 hours and I obtaining 25 hours including anc on for 1 hour and ambient mode for 45 minutes.

 

[Kalli]

More manufacturers only mentioning max number of hours and isn't specific of anc is on or off. B&O and Sony are only companies that I know that is mentioning max hours with anc on or off (25 hours anc on, 32 hours anc on for b&o h9 3rd gen, and 30 hours anc on, 38 hours anc off for sony xm3).

• Bowers and willings saying px7 offering 30 hours with anc on.
• Bose nc700 only saying "up to 20 hours" and isn't specific if anc on or off.
• Shure sa50 saying only "Up to 20 hours battery life provides uninterrupted audio wherever you go" and isn't specific.
• Dali io-6 saying "provides a best-in-class 30 hour battery life" and isn't specific.

I never measuring sa50 with anc on all the time or partially, but is interesting that shure saying 20 hours and I obtaining 23h 15m with anc off. With momentum 3 sennheiser is saying 17 hours and I obtaining 25 hours including anc on for 1 hour and ambient mode for 45 minutes.

As I said, that depends on the chips included in the headphones. Some are able to be powered off while no ANC is used, which results in a big difference. Others are just not in use but powered on and therefore the difference is really small.
That's more of an educated guess. So feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.

 

[Shinoke]

Obtaining almost 25 hours from a headphone saying 17 hours in specifications, and using some anc and ambient mode, is fantastic. I think this is extremely good and big difference from 17 hours (8 hours!). I always charging 30 minutes extra than manufacturer saying so I'm sure I having 100% full charge.

Glad you got some good battery life.

Charging to 100% or for more than stated is a good way to kill the longevity of the battery however.

Ideally keep it between 20 and 80%

Fully charging and discharging a lithium ion battery impairs its long term capacity, so try to avoid that where possible. Especially running it to empty.

If you can slow charge it too, that's better as well.

 

[angelom]

Glad you got some good battery life.

Charging to 100% or for more than stated is a good way to kill the longevity of the battery however.

Ideally keep it between 20 and 80%

Fully charging and discharging a lithium ion battery impairs its long term capacity, so try to avoid that where possible. Especially running it to empty.

If you can slow charge it too, that's better as well.

I only doing full discharge for testing. When I'm using the product I charge until 100% (light indicator depending in the model of headphone) and after that I usually trying charging when the battery is remaining about 30%. I think the first time is recommending fully charging and discharging devices. Not good after that. The advices of correct battery use and battery longevity isn't always the same in online publications.

 

[Kalli]

Battery charging is somehow random to be honest. There are three factors that impact it though from what I did experience with any kinda of battery driven product I used in my life.

1. Battery Quality: No matter what you do, if the battery quality it bad, you are screwed.
2. Charging Speed: The faster you charge, the worse for the battery. No matter what manufacturers tell you.
3. Charge Stop at 100%: Stopping the power input if the battery is full, prevents from "over charging" when the device is full but you don't remove it from the power adapter.

 

[Shinoke]

I only doing full discharge for testing. When I'm using the product I charge until 100% (light indicator depending in the model of headphone) and after that I usually trying charging when the battery is remaining about 30%. I think the first time is recommending fully charging and discharging devices. Not good after that. The advices of correct battery use and battery longevity isn't always the same in online publications.

Full charging and discharging doesn't apply to Lithium ion - it's for old NICAD or NimH batteries (battery conditioning).

Avoid charging to 100% if you can. Much better to go to even 90%.

 

[Kalli]

Avoid charging to 100% if you can. Much better to go to even 90%.

Good manufacturers take that into account and doing something like a "not 100% charge" and stating it's 100%, while the battery is actually bigger. Like this they reach better battery longevity.

 

[angelom]

I copy this post I posting in new Sony XM4 thread:

I think this post maybe isn't good here because I see the majority of people owning xm3 before and liking the sound very much. I have xm3 but only for travels NOT because of the sound because I think the sound isn't good really. I only keeping the xm3 because the anc is the best.

I owning many (anc) wireless headphones and earphones (maybe about 20) and I see one review in youtube and they playing music samples from xm3 and xm4. The xm4 in that video is sounding better. BUT here I have the 2 pairs and yes, the xm4 is sounding only very little better than xm3 but not like in the video better. I still thinking xm4 isn't sound good.

Of the many (anc) headphones I trying in the past the best sound for me is the shure aonic 50 (sa50). After is the b&w p7 wireless (but this isn't anc), then the sennheiser momentum 3 (I never liking momentum 1 or 2). Right now I having in my possession xm3, xm4, momentum 3 and (after more than 3,5 years) the excellent p7 wireless.

I buying the xm4 because in the video the sound is better than xm3 and is having multipoint connection. In reality is only LITTLE better in sound, still very veiled sound with problems in mids and treble and boosted lows, but isn't so boomy like xm3.

Very recently I selling my favourite in sound (sa50) because my ears getting hot and sweating very easy after little time with temperature of 26 celsius or more. Other problem is the sa50 isn't practical for travels, you can't folding it and the shure case is extremely big

I buying the momentum 3 again (the second time) because is having leather ear pads (like my p7 wireless) and now in the app is having better eq (only 3 bands but is better than terrible eq of before). I can using the eq in the app and having similar sound than sa50 and sometimes better because momentum 3 is sounding more close like speakers sometimes. The eq setting too are saving in the headphone like the xm3 and xm4 and this is problem with sa50 eq (you can only using eq if you're using the app in portable device) but the sa50 sound is so good I don't wanting eq 90-95% of times.

So now I have big negative surprise with xm4. I don't know why but is uncomfortable after 20 minutes more or less. No problem with clamping or headband, but I feeling the ear cups very much after this time, they are feeling very strong touching my ears. Is strange because the earcups are very little bigger than xm3 and earpads little bigger too. I don't having this problem with xm3 before. Is interesting because momentum 3 is more heavy (a lot better construction quality) but not only my ears isn't getting hot, but I having no comfort problems at all after hours using this headphone.

I think probably I returning xm4 very soon and keeping xm3 only for travels and momentum 3 for better sound, more comfort and anc that isn't aggressive in my ears (in my house) with more natural ambient mode (I using this a lot too).

I want mentioning that the touch buttons in the xm4 isn't so responsive like xm3. With xm3 I having never problems with volume up/down or next/previous tracks. With xm4 many times I having to doing the action again because isn't responding with 'normal' touch. I needing strong action. This is strange that isn't so good like before.

I don't testing very much anc, but quick testing I hear they are similar, maybe little better in xm4 but isn't better for buying only for this reason.

My BIG problem with momentum 3 is that with iPhone you only having 14 volume steps from low to high and often is jumping 2 steps or 3. This is terrible specially for recordings and masters from 1990 until today (loudness wars). With xm3, xm4, bose and bowers & willings you having much more volume steps. With xm3 and xm4 you having 31 steps that is perfect for me because I changing volume very constantly with very different masters/recordings. I really hoping sennheiser solving this problem with firmware but sennheiser is taking 2 years for changing the eq after many, many, many negative comments from everybody, and the eq is only 3 bands today and not perfect, but definitely lot better than before.

 

[Shinoke]

I copy this post I posting in new Sony XM4 thread:

I think this post maybe isn't good here because I see the majority of people owning xm3 before and liking the sound very much. I have xm3 but only for travels NOT because of the sound because I think the sound isn't good really. I only keeping the xm3 because the anc is the best.

I owning many (anc) wireless headphones and earphones (maybe about 20) and I see one review in youtube and they playing music samples from xm3 and xm4. The xm4 in that video is sounding better. BUT here I have the 2 pairs and yes, the xm4 is sounding only very little better than xm3 but not like in the video better. I still thinking xm4 isn't sound good.

Of the many (anc) headphones I trying in the past the best sound for me is the shure aonic 50 (sa50). After is the b&w p7 wireless (but this isn't anc), then the sennheiser momentum 3 (I never liking momentum 1 or 2). Right now I having in my possession xm3, xm4, momentum 3 and (after more than 3,5 years) the excellent p7 wireless.

I buying the xm4 because in the video the sound is better than xm3 and is having multipoint connection. In reality is only LITTLE better in sound, still very veiled sound with problems in mids and treble and boosted lows, but isn't so boomy like xm3.

Very recently I selling my favourite in sound (sa50) because my ears getting hot and sweating very easy after little time with temperature of 26 celsius or more. Other problem is the sa50 isn't practical for travels, you can't folding it and the shure case is extremely big

I buying the momentum 3 again (the second time) because is having leather ear pads (like my p7 wireless) and now in the app is having better eq (only 3 bands but is better than terrible eq of before). I can using the eq in the app and having similar sound than sa50 and sometimes better because momentum 3 is sounding more close like speakers sometimes. The eq setting too are saving in the headphone like the xm3 and xm4 and this is problem with sa50 eq (you can only using eq if you're using the app in portable device) but the sa50 sound is so good I don't wanting eq 90-95% of times.

So now I have big negative surprise with xm4. I don't know why but is uncomfortable after 20 minutes more or less. No problem with clamping or headband, but I feeling the ear cups very much after this time, they are feeling very strong touching my ears. Is strange because the earcups are very little bigger than xm3 and earpads little bigger too. I don't having this problem with xm3 before. Is interesting because momentum 3 is more heavy (a lot better construction quality) but not only my ears isn't getting hot, but I having no comfort problems at all after hours using this headphone.

I think probably I returning xm4 very soon and keeping xm3 only for travels and momentum 3 for better sound, more comfort and anc that isn't aggressive in my ears (in my house) with more natural ambient mode (I using this a lot too).

I want mentioning that the touch buttons in the xm4 isn't so responsive like xm3. With xm3 I having never problems with volume up/down or next/previous tracks. With xm4 many times I having to doing the action again because isn't responding with 'normal' touch. I needing strong action. This is strange that isn't so good like before.

I don't testing very much anc, but quick testing I hear they are similar, maybe little better in xm4 but isn't better for buying only for this reason.

My BIG problem with momentum 3 is that with iPhone you only having 14 volume steps from low to high and often is jumping 2 steps or 3. This is terrible specially for recordings and masters from 1990 until today (loudness wars). With xm3, xm4, bose and bowers & willings you having much more volume steps. With xm3 and xm3 you having 31 steps that is perfect for me because I changing volume very constantly with very different masters/recordings. I really hoping sennheiser solving this problem with firmware but sennheiser is taking 2 years for changing the eq after many, many, many negative comments from everybody, and the eq is only 3 bands today and not perfect, but definitely lot better than before.

Did you try the Bowers & Wikings PX7?

You could probably use that for everything instead of having an XM3 for travel and M3 for other times.

Granted, not genuine leather - but it's practical like the XM3, but meant to sound excellent, and has even more spacious earpads than M3

Being more spacious should help mitigate them not being genuine leather.

The issue with the SA50 is likely that is has the thickest earpads with the least room, as well as not being genuine leather. So there's no opportunity for ones ears to breath (despite the inside of the earpads having perforation I believe - I imagine to try to mitigate that).

The PX7 seems to have the thinnest earpads, which is partly why they're the roomiest I imagine.

 

[angelom]

Did you try the Bowers & Wikings PX7?

You could probably use that for everything instead of having an XM3 for travel and M3 for other times.

Granted, not genuine leather - but it's practical like the XM3, but meant to sound excellent, and has even more spacious earpads than M3

Being more spacious should help mitigate them not being genuine leather.

The issue with the SA50 is likely that is has the thickest earpads with the least room, as well as not being genuine leather. So there's no opportunity for ones ears to breath (despite the inside of the earpads having perforation I believe - I imagine to try to mitigate that).

The PX7 seems to have the thinnest earpads, which is partly why they're the roomiest I imagine.

I returning the px7 only few days after I buying. I don't liking the sound (peaky treble, recessed mids and boosted bass). I having big hope for px7 after BIG disappointment with previous and first b&w anc model (px, very veiled sound and uncomfortable), both models with artificial leather earcups too. I asking me why after the fantastic p7 wireless (with leather earpads and headband too) b&w releasing 2 bad models (in my opinion).

But thank you for your suggestion.

 

[angelom]

I'm deciding yesterday I will returning my second pair of m3 for 2 reasons:

1. The volume problem is making me crazy. Is jumping very much with my iPhone if I deciding going up or down (I explaining this before).

2. I writing to sennheiser 3 weeks ago and explaining this problem with the volume and they rever answering my email (I receiving confirmation in the website that the message is sending correctly). With shure, bose, bang & olufsen and bowers & wilkins (and master & dynamic too but little more slowly) you receiving answer to email quickly. With a company like sennheiser, that is so, so big and important, this is terrible and isn't acceptable.

 

[Kalli]

2. I writing to sennheiser 3 weeks ago and explaining this problem with the volume and they rever answering my email (I receiving confirmation in the website that the message is sending correctly). With shure, bose, bang & olufsen and bowers & wilkins (and master & dynamic too but little more slowly) you receiving answer to email quickly. With a company like sennheiser, that is so, so big and important, this is terrible and isn't acceptable.

Can confirm that.
Answering time for Sennheiser support is terrible and their answers aren't really helpful.
I might have been lucky with Shure, but the guy I emailed a lot with, gave me the best support experience I ever had in my whole life.

 

[angelom]

Can confirm that.
Answering time for Sennheiser support is terrible and their answers aren't really helpful.
I might have been lucky with Shure, but the guy I emailed a lot with, gave me the best support experience I ever had in my whole life.

In my experience isn't only quickly reply with other companies, but with bang & olufsen and bowers & wilkins I can speaking with someone in the phone and this is always better because you can making comments / questions in real time, and they giving you a case number if they can't solving the problem in that moment.

Is really pity because m3 is sounding very good with other positive aspects but the problem with the volume with the iPhone is terrible, specially for a person like me. The customer service / technical support is just other aspect that making me say goodbye to sennheiser this time.

 

[vanez1985]

Ok, if you want I can sending you the screenshots for my 2 principal eq settings (please confirm this), but I must saying some things first:

Tell me if you wanting the screenshots, but I will not explaining when and why because is little complicated and I changing constantly!

Could you please share these?

I'm currently strugging to decide which of these to buy and almost landed an order on SA50 after initial rehearsal but then discovered that M3 could be EQ'd to quite similar signature and stored in-phone without losing remaining M3 benefits like better multi-pairing and ability to mute a mic during the call.