[trellus]

After some positive initial reactions recently, I've now seen a couple of comments from others (from elsewhere, not here) who have also auditioned the HD820 and they think it blows goats. Interesting.

...but also totally predictable. I don't know any headphones which garner 100% positive opinion.

 

[Beagle]

I think it's also the internet era and pseudo trolling. I recall in the 90's when the first real flagships began to emerge into the new headphone age, you may have had fewer reviews and opinions than there are now, but there was a general agreement over what constituted a good headphone. Now the same flagship product can be both amazing and a piece of trash.

 

[Dobrescu George]

I think it's also the internet era and pseudo trolling. I recall in the 90's when the first real flagships began to emerge into the new headphone age, you may have had fewer reviews and opinions than there are now, but there was a general agreement over what constituted a good headphone. Now the same flagship product can be both amazing and a piece of trash.

Or frustation becoming easier to spot because of an easier data transfer between people

I was just talking with somebody today about a Sennheiser product, the IE800

I heard that some people feel SE846 is much better than IE800, and I was asked why.

The short version is that SE846 does two things better than IE800, where Ie800 does everything else better.

SE846 has an extremely smooth and rolled off sound that really works well with Jazz and Downtempo music, as everything sounds calm and laid-back.

Now, Ie800 has an excellent treble and bass extension, leading to a much better IEM for Rock, Metal, electronic, Dubstep, EDM, Pop, etc.

The main issue there is that the folks who don't listen to anything other than Jazz might not find the IE800 to their tastes, while somebody who doesn't listen to Jazz or anything laid-back won't see how SE846 can ever be worth its asking money. The lesson here is that taste plays a pretty big role in this thing, and maybe more camps and more people now have access to internet and are able to express their opinion over the things they like and the things they don't.

This is an issue when a non-experienced person voices his opinion too much, or when a non-experienced person doesn't state all conditions. I don't typically listen to Classical or Jazz, but I test headphones and IEMs with those. For my personal usage scenario, IE800 is brilliant, it has one of the most interesting sonics I heard. It is exciting, it is explosive and it is fun. But I don't think it works well with neither Jazz nor Classical. For classical, a thicker sound is desirable, while for Jazz, trumpets especially can get a little strong on IE800. I like those trumpets in songs by Leningrad which is an avant-garde band, but I can see that somebody who wants to relax to some Jazz would want something smoother.

The whole point in sharing opinions and reviews is for the reviewer to understand those things and to share accurate information and to not share his personal bias instead. I also make purchases based on reviews for some stuff, you can't test everything, and not everything is measurable by graphs, even say, when it comes to how good a lens can shot for a camera. I bought many headphones and IEMs based on reviews as well before, and I was happy.

I think that sites which don't focus on audio only probably don't have the expertise to do audio as well as somebody who is very experienced and into audio, this is why (not in audio, but in many other areas where I can't test before buying), I wait on opinion from people who try to avoid bias and who try to share a neutral input on how something works best and in what conditions. In audio, this is the purpose of what I'm trying to do as well, to share unbiased and clear information about things so people can make very well-informed purchases rather than smash or promote stuff, just tell how it works and with what and try to describe how it sounds the most accurate way possible.

 

[JabenZ]

Or frustation becoming easier to spot because of an easier data transfer between people

I was just talking with somebody today about a Sennheiser product, the IE800

I heard that some people feel SE846 is much better than IE800, and I was asked why.

The short version is that SE846 does two things better than IE800, where Ie800 does everything else better.

SE846 has an extremely smooth and rolled off sound that really works well with Jazz and Downtempo music, as everything sounds calm and laid-back.

Now, Ie800 has an excellent treble and bass extension, leading to a much better IEM for Rock, Metal, electronic, Dubstep, EDM, Pop, etc.

The main issue there is that the folks who don't listen to anything other than Jazz might not find the IE800 to their tastes, while somebody who doesn't listen to Jazz or anything laid-back won't see how SE846 can ever be worth its asking money. The lesson here is that taste plays a pretty big role in this thing, and maybe more camps and more people now have access to internet and are able to express their opinion over the things they like and the things they don't.

This is an issue when a non-experienced person voices his opinion too much, or when a non-experienced person doesn't state all conditions. I don't typically listen to Classical or Jazz, but I test headphones and IEMs with those. For my personal usage scenario, IE800 is brilliant, it has one of the most interesting sonics I heard. It is exciting, it is explosive and it is fun. But I don't think it works well with neither Jazz nor Classical. For classical, a thicker sound is desirable, while for Jazz, trumpets especially can get a little strong on IE800. I like those trumpets in songs by Leningrad which is an avant-garde band, but I can see that somebody who wants to relax to some Jazz would want something smoother.

The whole point in sharing opinions and reviews is for the reviewer to understand those things and to share accurate information and to not share his personal bias instead. I also make purchases based on reviews for some stuff, you can't test everything, and not everything is measurable by graphs, even say, when it comes to how good a lens can shot for a camera. I bought many headphones and IEMs based on reviews as well before, and I was happy.

I think that sites which don't focus on audio only probably don't have the expertise to do audio as well as somebody who is very experienced and into audio, this is why (not in audio, but in many other areas where I can't test before buying), I wait on opinion from people who try to avoid bias and who try to share a neutral input on how something works best and in what conditions. In audio, this is the purpose of what I'm trying to do as well, to share unbiased and clear information about things so people can make very well-informed purchases rather than smash or promote stuff, just tell how it works and with what and try to describe how it sounds the most accurate way possible.

Great point.

 

[franz12]

Or frustation becoming easier to spot because of an easier data transfer between people

I was just talking with somebody today about a Sennheiser product, the IE800

I heard that some people feel SE846 is much better than IE800, and I was asked why.

The short version is that SE846 does two things better than IE800, where Ie800 does everything else better.

SE846 has an extremely smooth and rolled off sound that really works well with Jazz and Downtempo music, as everything sounds calm and laid-back.

Now, Ie800 has an excellent treble and bass extension, leading to a much better IEM for Rock, Metal, electronic, Dubstep, EDM, Pop, etc.

The main issue there is that the folks who don't listen to anything other than Jazz might not find the IE800 to their tastes, while somebody who doesn't listen to Jazz or anything laid-back won't see how SE846 can ever be worth its asking money. The lesson here is that taste plays a pretty big role in this thing, and maybe more camps and more people now have access to internet and are able to express their opinion over the things they like and the things they don't.

This is an issue when a non-experienced person voices his opinion too much, or when a non-experienced person doesn't state all conditions. I don't typically listen to Classical or Jazz, but I test headphones and IEMs with those. For my personal usage scenario, IE800 is brilliant, it has one of the most interesting sonics I heard. It is exciting, it is explosive and it is fun. But I don't think it works well with neither Jazz nor Classical. For classical, a thicker sound is desirable, while for Jazz, trumpets especially can get a little strong on IE800. I like those trumpets in songs by Leningrad which is an avant-garde band, but I can see that somebody who wants to relax to some Jazz would want something smoother.

The whole point in sharing opinions and reviews is for the reviewer to understand those things and to share accurate information and to not share his personal bias instead. I also make purchases based on reviews for some stuff, you can't test everything, and not everything is measurable by graphs, even say, when it comes to how good a lens can shot for a camera. I bought many headphones and IEMs based on reviews as well before, and I was happy.

I think that sites which don't focus on audio only probably don't have the expertise to do audio as well as somebody who is very experienced and into audio, this is why (not in audio, but in many other areas where I can't test before buying), I wait on opinion from people who try to avoid bias and who try to share a neutral input on how something works best and in what conditions. In audio, this is the purpose of what I'm trying to do as well, to share unbiased and clear information about things so people can make very well-informed purchases rather than smash or promote stuff, just tell how it works and with what and try to describe how it sounds the most accurate way possible.

Dobrescu,

I understand the difficulty of your job as a reviewer. And I absolutely understand that maintaining a good relationship with manufacturers is an important part of a job, and only few reviewers like Tyll have privilege to put down some harsh words on reviews. But here, you are too polite. The problem of IE800 is that it is even more sibilant than hd800s to the point that being intolerable, setting aside its total V-shaped sound signature and its $800 price tag. I can testify this as I owned both IE800 and hd800s at the same time. When I sold hd800s, I was able to sell it at a decent price, but I got a big hit with ie800. I sold it at a more than 50% discount.

 

[Dobrescu George]

Dobrescu,

I understand the difficulty of your job as a reviewer. And I absolutely understand that maintaining a good relationship with manufacturers is an important part of a job, and only few reviewers like Tyll have privilege to put down some harsh words on reviews. But here, you are too polite. The problem of IE800 is that it is even more sibilant than hd800s to the point that being intolerable, setting aside its total V-shaped sound signature and its $800 price tag. I can testify this as I owned both IE800 and hd800s at the same time. When I sold hd800s, I was able to sell it at a decent price, but I got a big hit with ie800. I sold it at a more than 50% discount.

Well, what type of music are you listening to, to fin IE800 sibilant?

If you find them sibilant, then try Xelento or SE 846. If any of those would be too smooth, then try Dunu DK-3001

My actual role is to recommend you stuff that works for you. I am not affiliated with any company, I recommend anyone whatever works for them the best. I do not get paid to recommend stuff from a company, I just share input and help. Whatever I review, I try to do absolutely the same as the others.

I bought my IE800 with my own money, and I honestly still love them, even after 4 years. I have no affiliation and no obligation to Sennheiser to like the IE800 I have. I can say this publicly, I needed them exchanged twice, but Sennheiser has been very helpful and helped me, and this is when I was a no-name around audio stuffs, just a music enthusiast with no real opinion or such. I can also say that I find IE800 to not be perfect, the cables are too short between the Y split and the ears, I still can wear them over the ear, but they might not fit everybody. The tips can get slippery after a while in certain conditions, like in summer. This is my role, to report how they are, not to promote nor to smash them, at least how I see it.

I've seen reviewers smash stuff that is treble-happy, and that is wrong. IE800 is treble-happy, it has one of the strongest trebles I heard, and it is inherently not a smooth IEM, and can be sibilant, especially if there was sibilance in the recording. But that makes me love it. I listen to Metal, Rock, Electronic, Dubstep, Pop, music that needs to be explosive, to have cymbals, to have impact, to sound interesting. I find IE800 to be a good IEM for those things.

I find it to not be good for relaxing, and will never say it is, with a strong bass and treble, it will be quite upbeat with anything, it won't convey a relaxing signature well. Jazz, Downtempo and Classical will sound too much in the treble and not enogh in the midrange. Sennheiser even made IE800S which is supposed to be less sibilant and more balanced. I will review it as well and tell what it does good, what it works with and what it does not work with.

I can guarantee that there is not a single one IEM that will fit every single taste, even the best IEMs can still sound different to people because of ear shapes / expectations / comfort. A IEM that will be perfect for you might not be perfect for me, but my role is to help you find the IEM that is perfect for you, not to promote my personal watch list nor to smash what I personally don't like.

The whole point of writing a whole public article is providing introspection as best as possible, not to tell you what I like, but to help you find what you like.

This is why there is too much variation in opinion, too many people share their taste and not the facts, too many people have other purposes than to share input. I've seen lots of sites and reviewers that have excellent articles with no issues and no bias and there are many who totally understand what I wrote above.

Electronics sites reviews on audiophile products are similar to electronis sites reviews on DSLR cameras.

"Yes, it takes photos. Yes, it can do video. We grade it that grade." I need to know insights about what my frustrations with a camera will be and why, I need to know of its actual real life performance compared to other cameras, what would fit my photos, I would have loved to know that certain cameras don't have good AF during video, or that there's no DOF Preview button. And so on... this is why I check camera review sites and reviews by people who take photos so they know what a person taking photos could be strugglin with.

Same with headphones and IEMs and Players, best is if reviewers are people who use those daily and who have an interest in them and who can share an article as neutral and honest as possible

 

[musicphotolife]

Well, what type of music are you listening to, to fin IE800 sibilant?

If you find them sibilant, then try Xelento or SE 846. If any of those would be too smooth, then try Dunu DK-3001

My actual role is to recommend you stuff that works for you. I am not affiliated with any company, I recommend anyone whatever works for them the best. I do not get paid to recommend stuff from a company, I just share input and help. Whatever I review, I try to do absolutely the same as the others.

I bought my IE800 with my own money, and I honestly still love them, even after 4 years. I have no affiliation and no obligation to Sennheiser to like the IE800 I have. I can say this publicly, I needed them exchanged twice, but Sennheiser has been very helpful and helped me, and this is when I was a no-name around audio stuffs, just a music enthusiast with no real opinion or such. I can also say that I find IE800 to not be perfect, the cables are too short between the Y split and the ears, I still can wear them over the ear, but they might not fit everybody. The tips can get slippery after a while in certain conditions, like in summer. This is my role, to report how they are, not to promote nor to smash them, at least how I see it.

I've seen reviewers smash stuff that is treble-happy, and that is wrong. IE800 is treble-happy, it has one of the strongest trebles I heard, and it is inherently not a smooth IEM, and can be sibilant, especially if there was sibilance in the recording. But that makes me love it. I listen to Metal, Rock, Electronic, Dubstep, Pop, music that needs to be explosive, to have cymbals, to have impact, to sound interesting. I find IE800 to be a good IEM for those things.

I find it to not be good for relaxing, and will never say it is, with a strong bass and treble, it will be quite upbeat with anything, it won't convey a relaxing signature well. Jazz, Downtempo and Classical will sound too much in the treble and not enogh in the midrange. Sennheiser even made IE800S which is supposed to be less sibilant and more balanced. I will review it as well and tell what it does good, what it works with and what it does not work with.

I can guarantee that there is not a single one IEM that will fit every single taste, even the best IEMs can still sound different to people because of ear shapes / expectations / comfort. A IEM that will be perfect for you might not be perfect for me, but my role is to help you find the IEM that is perfect for you, not to promote my personal watch list nor to smash what I personally don't like.

The whole point of writing a whole public article is providing introspection as best as possible, not to tell you what I like, but to help you find what you like.

This is why there is too much variation in opinion, too many people share their taste and not the facts, too many people have other purposes than to share input. I've seen lots of sites and reviewers that have excellent articles with no issues and no bias and there are many who totally understand what I wrote above.

Electronics sites reviews on audiophile products are similar to electronis sites reviews on DSLR cameras.

"Yes, it takes photos. Yes, it can do video. We grade it that grade." I need to know insights about what my frustrations with a camera will be and why, I need to know of its actual real life performance compared to other cameras, what would fit my photos, I would have loved to know that certain cameras don't have good AF during video, or that there's no DOF Preview button. And so on... this is why I check camera review sites and reviews by people who take photos so they know what a person taking photos could be strugglin with.

Same with headphones and IEMs and Players, best is if reviewers are people who use those daily and who have an interest in them and who can share an article as neutral and honest as possible

I have the exact mindset when I write reviews. Not to infuse too much personal criticism but to share the characters of each product plus highlighting some objective use cases. Cheers!

 

[BunnyNamedCraig]

After some positive initial reactions recently, I've now seen a couple of comments from others (from elsewhere, not here) who have also auditioned the HD820 and they think it blows goats. Interesting.

If someone likes or knows Sennheiser HD800,HD800s sound, then the HD820 should be pretty predictable to them for what it sounds like. Unless they totally changed the tuning since CanJam NY, I would say that if you love the HD800s/HD800 then this is an excellent closed back option of that.

 

[Beagle]

That's what I would have thought....that it would be sonically similar to the HD800/800S. I'm still thinking that, in spite of what I've read elsewhere.

 

[Emerald Core]

When is the HD820 coming out in US or Europe ? ours is coming late in August this year.
I can't really wait to get my hands into one.

 

[JabenZ]

When is the HD820 coming out in US or Europe ? ours is coming late in August this year.
I can't really wait to get my hands into one.

It won’t ship till Jun 15th in US.

 

[Bill-P]

After some positive initial reactions recently, I've now seen a couple of comments from others (from elsewhere, not here) who have also auditioned the HD820 and they think it blows goats. Interesting.

Well, I'm one of those who were unimpressed by this headphone. Not sure if it was my impressions that you read, but I stand by those impressions, and I still do own an HD800 that I use daily with my EC Zana Deux. I even brought my HD800 along to compare to the HD820, and even used my own source, aside from just trying to "guess" from the HDV820 they were using to demo the headphone.

Just gonna be brief since I'm reading quite a few things here that I'm disagreeing with: I don't think the HD820 sounds anything even remotely close to the HD800/S. It's a different headphone. And personally, I think that's for the worse, too.

I wouldn't be this vocal about it if not for the price tag of this headphone. I sincerely hope that Sennheiser will improve on the tuning, but... at the recent CanJam LA, this headphone was a big disappointment to me.

John of LAAS felt the same, and he is also a long-time HD800 owner.

 

[Beagle]

Well, I'm one of those who were unimpressed by this headphone. Not sure if it was my impressions that you read, but I stand by those impressions, and I still do own an HD800 that I use daily with my EC Zana Deux. I even brought my HD800 along to compare to the HD820, and even used my own source, aside from just trying to "guess" from the HDV820 they were using to demo the headphone.

Just gonna be brief since I'm reading quite a few things here that I'm disagreeing with: I don't think the HD820 sounds anything even remotely close to the HD800/S. It's a different headphone. And personally, I think that's for the worse, too.

I wouldn't be this vocal about it if not for the price tag of this headphone. I sincerely hope that Sennheiser will improve on the tuning, but... at the recent CanJam LA, this headphone was a big disappointment to me.

John of LAAS felt the same, and he is also a long-time HD800 owner.

Like I said...interesting. Another polarizing headphone methinks. There have been a lot of those in recent years.

 

[Bill-P]

Yeah. I know I'm a polarizing person, too. I like HD600. HD650 is a bit too... bassy but I like the refined treble (but dislike the lack of it). HD660S to me was also pretty bad (too closed-in sounding), so that's that.

Just that I think that at the price point of the HD820, Senn should be held to a much higher standard than any headphone before. It costs almost $1000 more than the HD800S now (Amazon currently has HD800S for ~$1550).

Here are some specific things that I think can be improved with the HD820:

1. Bass: it's a little cloudy/confused/boomy, and actually lacking in impact to me. Going back to HD800 from HD820 scared the hell out of me. It sounded like the HD820 was missing out on certain parts of the middle and upper bass regions. Sub bass was decent but very loose and uncontrolled. I guess this echoes how someone said that Sennheiser wanted to improve upon the HD820's bass.

2. Midrange sounded good to me but a little too closed-in, and a little too reverberant. Not sure if this is due to the closed-back design, but I get this effect too when I try to enclose the HD800's rear side (the grilles) with my hands.

3. Treble was good but lacking as well, and there was a region in the lower treble, or maybe it's just the upper mid, that really stood out. It's at a lower frequency than the peak on the HD800, which is already annoying enough on specific tracks. Here, the HD820 is just annoying to me on everything. John also noted that the HD820 sounded bright to him, and I think he's also hearing this.

4. Soundstage was very boxed in and suffocating. Granted, it's a closed headphone, but many have been saying that the HD820 "retains a bit of the HD800/S soundstage" so I guess I expected too much. In any case, it's closed-in sounding to me, and not very different from most other closed-back headphones. Some IEMs, including my Campfire Andromeda, do sound like they have a bigger soundstage.

So those are my chief complaints with the HD820.

 

[kman1211]

Yeah. I know I'm a polarizing person, too. I like HD600. HD650 is a bit too... bassy but I like the refined treble (but dislike the lack of it). HD660S to me was also pretty bad (too closed-in sounding), so that's that.

Just that I think that at the price point of the HD820, Senn should be held to a much higher standard than any headphone before. It costs almost $1000 more than the HD800S now (Amazon currently has HD800S for ~$1550).

Here are some specific things that I think can be improved with the HD820:

1. Bass: it's a little cloudy/confused/boomy, and actually lacking in impact to me. Going back to HD800 from HD820 scared the hell out of me. It sounded like the HD820 was missing out on certain parts of the middle and upper bass regions. Sub bass was decent but very loose and uncontrolled. I guess this echoes how someone said that Sennheiser wanted to improve upon the HD820's bass.

2. Midrange sounded good to me but a little too closed-in, and a little too reverberant. Not sure if this is due to the closed-back design, but I get this effect too when I try to enclose the HD800's rear side (the grilles) with my hands.

3. Treble was good but lacking as well, and there was a region in the lower treble, or maybe it's just the upper mid, that really stood out. It's at a lower frequency than the peak on the HD800, which is already annoying enough on specific tracks. Here, the HD820 is just annoying to me on everything. John also noted that the HD820 sounded bright to him, and I think he's also hearing this.

4. Soundstage was very boxed in and suffocating. Granted, it's a closed headphone, but many have been saying that the HD820 "retains a bit of the HD800/S soundstage" so I guess I expected too much. In any case, it's closed-in sounding to me, and not very different from most other closed-back headphones. Some IEMs, including my Campfire Andromeda, do sound like they have a bigger soundstage.

So those are my chief complaints with the HD820.

Thank you for your impressions. That does have me a bit concerned, especially in regards to the suffocating soundstage as that is one of the most irritating traits a headphone can have for me. Definitely going to have listen to them myself sometime preferably on multiple systems and see if I share similar impressions or not.