[IEMCrazy]

Quote:

 
In my experience I find the HD800 easier to drive than the HD650 - which I also own.
 
All it takes to drive the HD800 is an amp that can swing enough voltage - it doesn't need very much current. So pretty much all stationary headphone amps are fair game.
 
The HE-6 I've never owned, or even tried, but from what I gather that one requires A LOT of current - much like speakers. Which is also why it seems that people who favor this headphone drive it from speaker amps.
 
I don't think a 50wpc channel amp would match well with the HD800 - well, some 50wpc amps might but it wouldn't be something to be expected.

 
HD800 is both lower impedance and higher sensitivity than HD650, so it's significantly easier to drive (50ohm difference....so basically there's an entire HE-6 difference in impedance between the two, with greater sensitivity than either.)
 
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Someone correct me if I'm wrong on this but wouldn't a speaker amp actually not put that much power into the 300ohm cans? The HE6 works because it's low impedance.

 
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With the HD800, amp quality matters a lot. Most high-end amps have enough power for them. A 50wpc midrange speaker amp won't sound nearly as good as something with less power but better quality, like an ECBA for example.

 
I think there's a bit of a myth around the HE-6 that it requires big power but doesn't care about quality so much, while HD800 cares about quality but not power very much.   HD800 may be the king of absolute detail this side of stats, but HE-6 is very close in terms of its resolution and detail.  HE-6 isn't much less dependent on quality of amplification than HD800 is.  It needs the power in addition to the quality.  So in that sense HD800 is the more forgiving of amps, though it just so happens that scales of economies make good quality high power speaker amps cheaper than a lot of high quality headphone dedicated amps.   HE-6 may handle lesser quality amps with a lot of power more cleanly than HD800 handles a lesser quality of amp, but it rewards high quality amps just as well. 
 
And on the flip side of the myth I was impressed with just how well HD800 handled lesser quality amps.  But the reward for high quality is no lesser with the HE-6 despite the huge power demands.  Therefore an amp that is good enough in performance to extract the best of the HE-6 is also of excellent performance to extract the best of HD800, provided one can tame the power output and make it suitably save.  300ohm goes a long way to doing that, though I'd still feel safer with even more extra resistance than the HE-Adapter provides due to the high sensitivity of HD800. The ideal, I suppose would be a preamp that was chosen for HE-6 that also has a direct headphone output tapped off the main amp with appropriate resistance added.
 
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I just wanted to be able to see how it sounded with the amp but it is bought with the HE6 as it's pairing. I just wasn't sure if it was safe to use with the HD800 or not. I'm always on the lookout to see if my rig can get better at a reasonable cost. This gives me some opinions on it and I'll just keep the HE6 connected to the amp. I do have a good combination with the HD800 but the HD800 sounds better on the same rig than the HD800.

 
I'd love to try my 7025 with HD800.  I suspect it would be a superb sounding combination.  I'm just too nervous to do it, even though the numbers show it should be doable.  That eliminates the expected results...it's the unanticpated ones that worry me

 
FWIW, Sphinx ran the HD800 off the FW clone....but that was only a 10wpc amp.  50wpc is a bit more of an issue depending on the gain factor, and my 140wpc amp would be downright scary...though it's very low gain and thus could in some ways be safer than a very high gain 50wpc amp like my PM6004.

 

[purrin]

  HE-6 isn't much less dependent on quality of amplification than HD800 is.  It needs the power in addition to the quality.  
 

 

Thank you. I can't tell you how many time's I've heard the HE-6 sounding craptastic on HIGH-POWERED amps (speaker or otherwise) than lower powered (but still of sufficient power) higher quality amps. 
 
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And on the flip side of the myth I was impressed with just how well HD800 handled lesser quality amps.

 
Higher quality stuff helps in regards to the HD800 reaching its full potential, but the HD800 needs amps with certain sonic characteristics. The thought of a Benchmark DAC1 + HeadRoom Desktop amp is scary.

 

[Loevhagen]

/OT/ Thank you. Sometimes I feel almost alone having the same thoughs among overkill power focused HE-6 owners. The preamplifer part of the puzzle makes a difference - and more than browsing HE-6 threads indicates. /OT/
Quote:

Thank you. I can't tell you how many time's I've heard the HE-6 sounding craptastic on HIGH-POWERED amps (speaker or otherwise) than lower powered (but still of sufficient power) higher quality amps. 

 

[MorbidToaster]

Completely agree on the OT HE-6 talk. Power =/= Quality. 

 

[Greg121986]

Sorry to be somewhat off topic here, but is there anyone in the Metro-Detroit area with HD800s that wouldn't mind if I dropped by to listen to theirs? I am pretty close to jumping on a new pair, but I want to see if there is anything about their sound signature that might be a major turn off and cause me to not be as excited to own them as I am excited to think about owning them. 

 

[Shahrose]

Quote:

 

I think there's a bit of a myth around the HE-6 that it requires big power but doesn't care about quality so much, while HD800 cares about quality but not power very much.   HD800 may be the king of absolute detail this side of stats, but HE-6 is very close in terms of its resolution and detail.  HE-6 isn't much less dependent on quality of amplification than HD800 is.  It needs the power in addition to the quality.  So in that sense HD800 is the more forgiving of amps, though it just so happens that scales of economies make good quality high power speaker amps cheaper than a lot of high quality headphone dedicated amps.   HE-6 may handle lesser quality amps with a lot of power more cleanly than HD800 handles a lesser quality of amp, but it rewards high quality amps just as well. 
 
And on the flip side of the myth I was impressed with just how well HD800 handled lesser quality amps.  But the reward for high quality is no lesser with the HE-6 despite the huge power demands.  Therefore an amp that is good enough in performance to extract the best of the HE-6 is also of excellent performance to extract the best of HD800, provided one can tame the power output and make it suitably save.  300ohm goes a long way to doing that, though I'd still feel safer with even more extra resistance than the HE-Adapter provides due to the high sensitivity of HD800. The ideal, I suppose would be a preamp that was chosen for HE-6 that also has a direct headphone output tapped off the main amp with appropriate resistance added.
 

 
Preaching to the choir. I've been advocating for quality from day one. That being said, IME, the HD800 is still more sensitive to quality amping and source signal than the HE6. I've had both since close to their release now, and multiples of.

 

[skeptic]

Quote:

The thought of a Benchmark DAC1 + HeadRoom Desktop amp is scary.

 
Too true.  At CanJam LA a couple years back, my impression was that the HeadRoom amps were probably the worst pairing I heard all day with the HD800's.  (Admittedly, I stayed away from, and did not try them with, cheaper solid state options.)

 

[purrin]

Quote:

Sorry to be somewhat off topic here, but is there anyone in the Metro-Detroit area with HD800s that wouldn't mind if I dropped by to listen to theirs? I am pretty close to jumping on a new pair, but I want to see if there is anything about their sound signature that might be a major turn off and cause me to not be as excited to own them as I am excited to think about owning them. 

 
Just ding-dong Jude's house. 

 

[preproman]

Quote:

 
I think there's a bit of a myth around the HE-6 that it requires big power but doesn't care about quality so much,

 
 
There's no myth about this.  This has been stated many, many time over and over.  It's just people refuse to hear it.  I first experienced it when we visited the audio store.  Quality amps with less power sounded way better.
 
There's only a myth because of the HE-6 haters out there and because most mid tier headphone amps can't drive it.  So the first thing people like to say is they need goo gobs of power. 
 
I just happen to have mine at the moment on 200wpc speaker amps on accident.  Soon to be on a lower powered, high quality amp. 

 

[paradoxper]

I think the reason for this is because most are using a speaker amp with an exorbitant amount of power. Look at the J2, it puts out way less power than most of the speaker amps used (The T-amps
are one of the few that come to mind that offer less power), but the J2 is high quality.
 
Similarly to the HD800, it's more about the quality of the amp than just the raw power..
 
And as the prep man just said "Quality amps with less power sounded way better"
 
So although I like to tease prep, it's clear to me prep doesn't think it's all about 
ridiculous power requirements.

 

[purrin]

More power is almost always better provided quality can be maintained. But the claims that more power automagically cures the HE-6s weaknesses, i.e. the treble etch, is utter ********. Only quality or amps of a certain character cured that.

 

[preproman]

Quote:

More power is almost always better provided quality can be maintained. But the claims that more power automagically cures the HE-6s weaknesses, i.e. the treble etch, is utter ********. Only quality or amps of a certain character cured that.

 
 
That's true..

 

[sphinxvc]

With certain A to A/B speaker amps, the point of transition is higher with higher wattage amps.  Some of these amps are pretty cheap.  With speaker loads, they're very likely to go into A/B.  With a flea-like HE-6 load, the amp likely never leaves class A.  I wonder if this could account for hi-watt amps being "low quality" in speaker application, but of high(er) quality in HE-6 application?  This could account for raving and hyping of any hi-watt speaker amp.

 

[dallan]

Quote:

 
HD800 is both lower impedance and higher sensitivity than HD650, so it's significantly easier to drive)
 
 
 
 

 

 

I read the same impedance, and not necessarily easier to drive actually.

 

HD800

Technical Data

[td] Cable length[/td] [td] 9.8 ft. (3 m)[/td] [td] Contact pressure[/td] [td] 3.4 N (± 0.3 N) approx.[/td] [td] Ear coupling[/td] [td] Around-the-ear[/td] [td] Frequency response (headphones)[/td] [td] 6 – 51,000 Hz (- 10 dB), 14 - 44,100 Hz (- 3 dB)[/td] [td] Jack plug[/td] [td] ¼” (6.3 mm) stereo jack[/td] [td] Nominal impedance[/td] [td] 300 Ω[/td] [td]  [/td] [td]  [/td]

 
 
HD650
 
 

 

Technical Data

[td] Cable length[/td] [td] 9.8 ft. (3 m)[/td] [td] Contact pressure[/td] [td] Approx. 2.5 N[/td] [td] Ear coupling[/td] [td] Around-the-ear[/td] [td] Frequency response (headphones)[/td] [td] 10.....39,500 Hz[/td] [td] Jack plug[/td] [td] 6.3/3.5 mm stereo[/td] [td] Nominal impedance[/td] [td] 300 Ω[/td]

 

[ericfarrell85]

Just received the Black Dragon. I'm quite happy with the results, a response I seem to consistently have with cable "upgrades", though less so with interconnects. The Zana > Beta 22 is my preferred configuration with the 800's, but previous to the black dragon I was a little disappointed with the soundstage/body/decay relationship. The stage was enormous, the sound quick-footed and the decay short and fleeting. While at first glance this was impressive, it makes it difficult to get into an album as individual notes have less presence being so distant and quickly decaying. The little bit of weight and warmth the black dragons add takes care of this issue to a fair degree.