[pietcux]

PARDON?

Oh not you, only most.

 

[vaibhavp]

I really don't know why you have that idea. No, I don't own the HD 660 S yet, but I certainly will pick up a pair when the prices drop, and no doubt I will enjoy them. Why is it not possible to have a mature discussion about them in relation to the HD 650 without people feeling that I'm being critical of either them or the HD 660 S?

Yes, AKG and Beyer are basically pro companies, and two of the best in the industry. You will see lots of them in studios, but where it's possible to use an open back headphone for checking mixes etc the HD 650 is highly regarded.

I'm out for today. Have to go and do something productive!

I appreciate your effort for maintaining that you are not trying to put down hd660s.

However you brought up a clearly negative review of them. If you wanted to prove that hd650 is a viable mastering tool, that review description wasn't required. Something else, more credible would be preferable.

 

[pietcux]

Let me tell the world, i hate harsh treble and the HD660S does not have harsh treble.

 

[Mike F]

I appreciate your effort for maintaining that you are not trying to put down hd660s.

However you brought up a clearly negative review of them. If you wanted to prove that hd650 is a viable mastering tool, that review description wasn't required. Something else, more credible would be preferable.

I did say also that it was another example (for FullBright1's benefit) of a review that was not 100% positive about the HD 660 S as he had only apparently seen Tyll's. It's just a fact that there are negative reviews of the HD 660 S out there as well as the positive ones.

However, I take your point that it wasn't necessary to use a negative review in order to refute FullBright1's claim that the HD 650 wasn't suitable for studio use.

 

[iancraig10]

Most PROs are already stating to go deaf. They need their treble peaks.

Eh?

 

[iancraig10]

Makes sense. Since sometimes musicians use hps in noisy environment, like in live show, they need to make out starting and stopping of notes as precisely as possible. Hence the bright and etched treble.

They are getting deaf cause they use hps on high volumes to drown out noise of the show.

I used the DT150 for many years because it could be played at 'life' volume without pain, so making it great to perform into without feeling the need to hold back. The treble is rolled away significantly so it doesn't cause pain!!

Choice is more based on what the headphone is being used for I think in pro circles.

 

[kman1211]

I used the DT150 for many years because it could be played at 'life' volume without pain, so making it great to perform into without feeling the need to hold back. The treble is rolled away significantly so it doesn't cause pain!!

Choice is more based on what the headphone is being used for I think in pro circles.

The DT 150 isn’t anymore rolled off than the HD 6xx series in terms of treble, I found it had more treble presence and didn’t roll off as quickly as the HD 650 did, at least my DT 150, wouldn’t be surprised if there were some silent revisions as it’s one of the few headphones currently made thats been around longer than the HD 600. I had minor issues with the treble on them actually as it’s treble isn’t as smooth as the HD 650 I had at the time. The reason the DT 150 can be turned up loudly is more complicated than a treble rolloff.

 

[iancraig10]

Well, it’s not as ‘strident’ in the top as many others. Funny with FR though ... the Sony mdr7560 sounds so thin up there and yet it doesn’t really extend much.

I could play into a dt150 ‘thuggishly’ loud which has probably deafened me as well!

 

[franz12]

Most PROs are already stating to go deaf. They need their treble peaks.

Makes sense. Since sometimes musicians use hps in noisy environment, like in live show, they need to make out starting and stopping of notes as precisely as possible. Hence the bright and etched treble.

They are getting deaf cause they use hps on high volumes to drown out noise of the show.

You got a point, but omitted the other important part. Boomy bass hurts ear drum, and even more accelerates deafness. Treble peaks are small part compared to them. They also need extreme level of bass.

 

[SilverEars]

You got a point, but omitted the other important part. Boomy bass hurts ear drum, and even more accelerates deafness. Treble peaks are small part compared to them.

I can see that, and you can feel it when there is a bit of pressure due to hard hitting bass. With the Cascades, when I first heard the hard slam, I quickly reached for volume knob to reduce it. It was too much, and this significant bass quantity and slam limits volume from the other end(than the treble end with certain headphone if treble is peaky). It's a body's natural defense mechanism to protect it's hearing.

I look for balanced sig with smooth treble, and not too much bass. If headphones gets fatiguing quick, it's not a good sign, I'm sure prolonged exposure to such type of headphones will do damages if you push it. Also, not raising the volume more than needed is preventive of future issues. As audiophiles especially with transducers close to our ears we are much more suseptable to damaging hearing.

 

[franz12]

You got a point, but omitted the other important part. Boomy bass hurts ear drum, and even more accelerates deafness. Treble peaks are small part compared to them.

I can see that, and you can feel it when there is a bit of pressure due to hard hitting bass. With the Cascades, when I first heard the hard slam, I quickly reached for volume knob to reduce it. It was too much, and this significant bass quantity and slam limits volume from the other end(than the treble end with certain headphone if treble is peaky). It's a body's natural defense mechanism to protect it's hearing.

That phone seems to be for a audio pro

 

[FullBright1]

FullBright1, this isn't a response to anything you've said, but I wondered whether you've seen this:- https://sonarworks.com/blog/studio-headphone-review-sennheiser-hd660-s/

I've posted this before, so apologies to everyone who was around 50 or so pages ago . Please note, I am NOT saying that the HD 660 S is not a good headphone or that anyone's ears are deceiving them. If you like it, great! I'm just giving ONE example of a review which is less than !00% positive as you only seem to have come across Tyll's before (there are in fact a number of others as well). It's also a confirmation from a very well respected source that the HD 650 is well established as a tool (whether calibrated by them or not) in the music industry. Do read the article, but here is a copy and paste of the conclusion:-
Conclusion
If you’re looking for a revolution, then this sadly isn’t it. The HD660 S is an attempt to evolve the HD650 into something more exciting. The problem is that much of what made the HD650 great for sound editing has been therefore lost. It’s still a decent headphone for recreational listening, because of extra sparkle up top. However unlike 15 years ago, there are other decent headphones around the 500$ mark.

I would hope that no one here is going to take this as an attack on their new favourite headphone. It's not intended as such (and we've been through all that before ). I simply want to put FullBright1's extraordinary comments about the HD 650 not being suitable for use in pro audio into some context.

Hey MF,


did you miss me?
figured you would.
its probably my wit or my Pic, but it could be my videos that called you home.
and...
I dont read the review you offered as an attack.
I read it as fiction.

So, Ok, im proud to know it only took yo 2 days of Google hunting to find a negative review of the Senn HD660S.
Of course they are out there, just like there are negative reviews of the painting of the Mona Lisa that criticize it for being "too small".
And, the reviewer has a "thing" for the hyped bass response of the HD650, therefore this negates him from being able to accurately respond to and review the sonic bliss as provided by the HD660S.
His entire POV is related to comparing the 660S to the 650S, and this is a newbie-novice reviewer's mistake, as you actually need to talk about how they SOUND, of themselves.
And sure, I appreciate "context", but in his case, ..........................
His "thing" is to rate the 660s, as compared to his personal fanboy pièce de résistance HD650s, which is a FAIL, because these headphones dont sound anything like his favorites.
I actually hear him sucking his thumb as he sits in his crib whining......."no no no, deese dont sound like my bass, ".....,,,,,,,,,,,, continues to suck thumb....
And here is another clue this reviewer is clueless and perhaps slightly deaf...= these headphones do not have extra sparkle on top....they have instead, a lot of finesse and clarity, that some novice reviewers who are bass heavy 650 listeners will not recognize as clarity, because they are so use to listening to the out of balanced low end of the (HD650), that when this is not available in their ear cups, they then misread these non bass heavy sonics as "sparkle on top".
Listen, sparkle on top is anything Beyer makes, anything Audio Technica makes, or perhaps anything that AKG makes...but Sennheiser did not create extra treble "sparkle" within this headphone.
I would liken their sound, if compared to a set of speakers, as sounding like Dynaudio BMs.

Now, I can't speak to their ability to compare contextually to an HD812 or HD820, as I dont buy headphones in that price range.
The reason being...... I can afford it, but I cant afford the disappointment of not being pleased in proportion to the price I paid for them, and so, there is no need for me to try that trick upon myself.
See, there really is the law of diminishing returns, within the realm of headphone buying, whereby the law teaches that at some point, the extra that you are getting for all that money, is not the musical part, but it just more bass or treble or build quality, nice box, and the right to brag.
That "3%" rule really does apply when you get past $5-800, and step into the "couple of thousand" arena., as your money spent, is, in my opinion, very very seldom going to give you the value in sound, in equal value.
You will get a better box, better drivers, but only a slight increase in SOUND Quality.
And for some, its worth it.
And if I see a new headphone that costs a stupid amount of money, and I have to have it, then I will.
But not yet, has anything caused me to pull that trigger.
I do like Focal speakers, and so, maybe I'll buy something expensive Focal to clasp to my cranium, at some point.

The Senn HD660S, Is a $500 Masterpiece that is going to please professional listeners, and people who enjoy recording, and all the rest.
Your reviewer, said these sound "decent", and yet, being that they sound better (in context) then his HD650, then what does that say about his favorites or his ability to be a reviewer????

 

[Hifiearspeakers]

Hey MF,


did you miss me?
figured you would.
its probably my wit or my Pic, but it could be my videos that called you home.
and...
I dont read the review you offered as an attack.
I read it as fiction.

So, Ok, im proud to know it only took yo 2 days of Google hunting to find a negative review of the Senn HD660S.
Of course they are out there, just like there are negative reviews of the painting of the Mona Lisa that criticize it for being "too small".
And, the reviewer has a "thing" for the hyped bass response of the HD650, therefore this negates him from being able to accurately respond to and review the sonic bliss as provided by the HD660S.
His entire POV is related to comparing the 660S to the 650S, and this is a newbie-novice reviewer's mistake, as you actually need to talk about how they SOUND, of themselves.
And sure, I appreciate "context", but in his case, ..........................
His "thing" is to rate the 660s, as compared to his personal fanboy pièce de résistance HD650s, which is a FAIL, because these headphones dont sound anything like his favorites.
I actually hear him sucking his thumb as he sits in his crib whining......."no no no, deese dont sound like my bass, ".....,,,,,,,,,,,, continues to suck thumb....
And here is another clue this reviewer is clueless and perhaps slightly deaf...= these headphones do not have extra sparkle on top....they have instead, a lot of finesse and clarity, that some novice reviewers who are bass heavy 650 listeners will not recognize as clarity, because they are so use to listening to the out of balanced low end of the (HD650), that when this is not available in their ear cups, they then misread these non bass heavy sonics as "sparkle on top".
Listen, sparkle on top is anything Beyer makes, anything Audio Technica makes, or perhaps anything that AKG makes...but Sennheiser did not create extra treble "sparkle" within this headphone.
I would liken their sound, if compared to a set of speakers, as sounding like Dynaudio BMs.

Now, I can't speak to their ability to compare contextually to an HD812 or HD820, as I dont buy headphones in that price range.
The reason being...... I can afford it, but I cant afford the disappointment of not being pleased in proportion to the price I paid for them, and so, there is no need for me to try that trick upon myself.
See, there really is the law of diminishing returns, within the realm of headphone buying, whereby the law teaches that at some point, the extra that you are getting for all that money, is not the musical part, but it just more bass or treble or build quality, nice box, and the right to brag.
That "3%" rule really does apply when you get past $5-800, and step into the "couple of thousand" arena., as your money spent, is, in my opinion, very very seldom going to give you the value in sound, in equal value.
You will get a better box, better drivers, but only a slight increase in SOUND Quality.
And for some, its worth it.
And if I see a new headphone that costs a stupid amount of money, and I have to have it, then I will.
But not yet, has anything caused me to pull that trigger.
I do like Focal speakers, and so, maybe I'll buy something expensive Focal to clasp to my cranium, at some point.

The Senn HD660S, Is a $500 Masterpiece that is going to please professional listeners, and people who enjoy recording, and all the rest.
Your reviewer, said these sound "decent", and yet, being that they sound better (in context) then his HD650, then what does that say about his favorites or his ability to be a reviewer????

HD812???? What is this headphone that you speak of?

 

[FullBright1]

Most PROs are already stating to go deaf. They need their treble peaks.

Ah, so THATS what it is.....

Well, all those PROS won't be getting them with the HD660S, as it doesn't do treble peaks.
And being that they can't hear the midrange, then maybe they should just stay with Audio Tech, AKG, or Beyer, as these companies exclude RICH Midrange within their headphones whenever possible.
These companies like you to perform laser surgery on your music using their sonic scalpels., which, can be a good thing, if that is your thing.
Sometimes its mine.

 

[FullBright1]

HD812???? What is this headphone that you speak of?

thx.

apparently its in my imagination

800 or 820, is what I mean.

thats better.