[ProtegeManiac]

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I was thinking about buying this can but I was wondering how it works for rock music? I don't only listen to rock I usually listen to everything but rock is my main genre. I'm worried that these might be a little too laid back for rock music, but I could be wrong. If anyone would like to help me with this I'd greatly appreciate it.

 
 
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These sound good for most rock (classic, acoustic,etc.) I find them a little lacking with my current setup for more complex genres like metal or prog.  I use a Nuforce HDP fed via USB through a macbook running audirvana +.  I haven't tried better equipment to see how they respond though so YMMV.  

 
 
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I don't listen to much metal or prog. So, I'm sure they will be fine for the kind of music I listen to. I usually jump around a bit so something that is good with most genre's is definetly nice.

 
I listen mostly to prog, symphonic and power metal, plus some classic rock and 80s hair metal, and I used the HD600 so much more than my SR225 so I sold it. It's a great all-rounder as I really love it for jazz and blues also. However some of that isn't all sound - as great as the Grados are with ACDC it was also the comfort that was problematic for me, but at least the earpads are cheaper.
 

 

 
 
Creepy, angsty black magic doll (with Eddie Vedder's old hairdo) from ex also approves.
 

 

[Jmstrmbn]

Good taste in music, I've been really into Kamelot lately.  I feel that my system is not really geared toward metal though, it doesn't sound bad, merely ok.  The 600s lose to my Earsonics SM2s in this regard.
 
Also, that is the Cantata right?  Is the difference between that and an entry level amp (Nuforce HDP) huge??

 

[Jmstrmbn]

To the op, the 600s are quite versatile and will perform well in any genre you can throw at it.  They excel with classical, jazz and acoustic recordings and do well with most other genres but not on the same levels as they handle classical,etc.  I ended up going with the 600s as my main phone for this reason, that and I was scared of the bass hump on the 650s ( I come from a mid-fi speaker set up where the bass smears EVERYTHING)  I did not want to repeat that with my headphones, best choice i've made in audio.

 

[ProtegeManiac]

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Good taste in music, I've been really into Kamelot lately.  I feel that my system is not really geared toward metal though, it doesn't sound bad, merely ok.  The 600s lose to my Earsonics SM2s in this regard.

 
The SM2 is a lot like the other 2-driver IEMs right? You probably jsut need more treble, although I thought that initially about the HD600 when Ifirst got one and wondered why it was nothing like I remember it. Turned out the old pads were the problem, plus I had a Little Dot MkII at the time.
 
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Also, that is the Cantata right?  Is the difference between that and an entry level amp (Nuforce HDP) huge??

 
Yep, the Cantate.2 actually (v1 had a different cover on top). I got to listen to one before I bought it, and while I missed out on that first one (was hobby-wise broke at the time), I went around a few months later when I had cash again and looked at the M1-HPA and the HDP. To be perfectly honest I didn't like the HDP actually. I spent half a day with it and using it as both a DAC and HPamp for the HD600 wasn't to my liking. The midrange and bass had too much 'bloom' to them that percussions have a somewhat slow and unnatural decay, vocals had a bit of lower freqs that go beyond being details of other vibrations in the recording mic, etc.
 
Also, while I was in an HT dealer showroom with no other customers around other than my friend who was also trying out the HDP, I had to go up to 12:00 on the dial to get to my listening level. I could tolerate up to 3:00 in terms of pure SPL but the problem was that midrange bloom was really kicking in as distortion - that "thwack" sound which I normally only hear in my car when I kick it up too high without a (steep enough) high-pass filter for the front woofers. Normally I'd scratch it up to relative tastes since people think my Meier amp sounds a bit too "thin," but that was distortion. I did however ask around about it and nobody responded, except that I'm baffled as to how everyone's descriptions seem too different from what I was listening through so my running theory is the netbook-grade stock PSU probably can't clean up our craptacular power grid; read a lot of great feedback about using the upgraded PSU, but at the combined price it'll cost more than the M1-HPA. Then I stumbled on another Cantate.2 here for about $400 shipped so I just got that one.
 
Used it as a DAC-pre and there was still some of that bloom in it, but I can't be certain it wasn't the speaker since it was a multi-driver PSB. My NAD304 before barely sweat with B&W and Dyns but a similar PSB was also flabby with it; this time the HDP was working with a huge Plinius power amp, so I won't be surprised if it can control the speakers a lot better.

 

[BobJS]

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To the op, the 600s are quite versatile and will perform well in any genre you can throw at it.  They excel with classical, jazz and acoustic recordings and do well with most other genres but not on the same levels as they handle classical,etc.  I ended up going with the 600s as my main phone for this reason, that and I was scared of the bass hump on the 650s ( I come from a mid-fi speaker set up where the bass smears EVERYTHING)  I did not want to repeat that with my headphones, best choice i've made in audio.

+1  (vs HD650)

 

[Jmstrmbn]

I find the HDP actually adds a bit too much to the upper mids/ lower treble.  It's great for classical or acoustic but with metal or prog I find it ends up burying the vocals, the guitars lose much of their crunch, and the bass loses most of its impact.  For christmas I am getting either the upgraded power supply or the Bottlehead Crack.  Either one I suspect will be a large difference from what I have currently. The HDP is currently my only headphone amp so I can't do any comparisons but I'm not sure what you mean by "thwack" are you referring to drum hits? 

 

[Jmstrmbn]

As for the SM2 it has a lot of bloom in the bass, a very liquid midrange, and recessed but accurate treble.  I really enjoy Roy Khan's voice through them.

 

[kamalz]

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It's also interesting how  a headphone can often sound much worse due to stress, allergies, congestion, ear wax and just being tired.
 
I actually once even had my amp sounding a little worse than it should be by having it plugged into a huge surge protector with too much noise filtering. Can't explain that one. Some guy had said it was "starving" the amp of power and I thought that was good for a laugh. Maybe he's not too far off. The differences were only detectable with ONE headphone. Not even kidding. Yet the noise filter was claimed to improve the sound. Maybe it's just defective.
 
I remember the first day of using the ODAC was absolutely awful. I never would have though that my desktop USB ports were so crappy that it made my ODAC sound bad!
 
One thing I've learned now is that I HATE doing A/B comparisons. If I can listen to a headphone a month without any complaint, then I know I have a keeper. I really need to avoid over-analyzing things and just listen to my dang music.
 
Now I'm not yet convinced on USB cables other than length. I'll stick to high quality Monprice USB and HDMI cables. I do prefer those without ferrite cores, but I'll sound like a fool if I tell you why! Now THAT has to be my brain playing tricks on me. Thankfully you won't see me doing USB cable "sound" reviews..ugh. Yep I know about all that 1's and 0's stuff.

 
     Based on experience, Surge protectors using the MOVS  degrades the sound.
     If the degradation  cannot be detected in any headphone  rig, then the rig is not yet optimized .
     I am not trying to get anybody upset here..but that is the truth
     Noise filters can either  improve the sound &  or degrade it.. it depends on the the design
     Some noise filters are good for audio but not for video

 

[kamalz]

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every item in the gear-set affects the sound, audibly or inaudibly...
from the wallpower all the way to the earwax..to that glass/brand of vodka.
Once u arrive at the alchemic synergy, the champagne pops.
everyone here is entitled to share their peculiar experiences...
from the tonedeaf to the supersensitive...the scientists to the fumblers like me..
I appreciate all who love usbcables and all who hates them. haaaa.
 
the cardas$$ on the hd600 works for me.
go and get it.
 
someone gave me a bot of Tanqueray gin...
nope, didnt work with my hd600.
 
Folks, enjoy your hobby!!

 
      Why do i have the feeling that you really know much of HD600 capability
      
      To hd600 lovers,
 
      I have tried different combination on my rigs like using several  noise filter , cables etc
      Majority of the combination can produce good sound & details with hd600 ..
      Only few can produce music with life in it ..Only one touches my soul..
      To me , if i watch & listen to good live concert blue rays  such as Yanni in Mandalay bay, i need to  feel i am there sitting in a
      VIP room with a pair of  good hadphones given to me to listen & judge wether the all the instrument are played to perfection. 
      If i did not feel this, then music is just a sound..Yanni did played the piano to perfection.. every single key is hit with such a precise
      force making  piano  sound  so very  pitch perfect ..With this headphone i am able to scrutinize the each single sound  in details
      Every sound must should be  mellowish,,the end sound must be there for each intrument 
      Thats is why i love HD600 so very much.. officially married to it  
    

 
      If you really want HD600 to touch your soul, you need to do minor tweaking  on rigs which you think gives you the right the balance & sound in
      music .  Judge it based on instruments sound  rather than voice
      Take your time to really convince yourself this issue .
      Some people liking are toward more bass, some are toward midrange & some are towards treble..
      If you like to hear the details in treble, you need to be very patience to achieve audio nirvana since this is the most difficult to get

 

[ProtegeManiac]

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I find the HDP actually adds a bit too much to the upper mids/ lower treble.  It's great for classical or acoustic but with metal or prog I find it ends up burying the vocals, the guitars lose much of their crunch, and the bass loses most of its impact.

 
If you posted in the HDP thread I might have just missed it. And yeah, people are kind of surprised I like the HD800 and amps like Cordas for metal, but really flat is good for the most part - what's necessary is a lot of dynamic range. The only time flat went too far for metal for my tastes was a properly set-up of VTL tube amps and Focal Stella Utopias in a really large room ; the Dynaudio Contour 5.4s in the other room was only slightly peaky because of the smaller area but it was a lot better. Recording of these tracks don't have much depth, and the Focal showed how 2D it was (vs how audiophile CDs have the drums imaged behind the vocals), and it was too hard to pick out one sound source from the others. The Dyns on the other hand didn't simulate depth by pushing the drums back, but by pushing the vocals and guitars forward.
 
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For christmas I am getting either the upgraded power supply or the Bottlehead Crack.  Either one I suspect will be a large difference from what I have currently.

 
I haven't heard what the Crack sounds like, but if you can, at least try the HDP as a DAC first with another, preferably transparent, amplifier. I sort of remember reading the Crack can actually be source-transparent, so if what I suspect about the HDP is true - that the DAC's response has a bump on it and the amp if at least with the stock brick can't control the driver distortion it causes - it might not improve it the way you'd like.
 
 
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The HDP is currently my only headphone amp so I can't do any comparisons but I'm not sure what you mean by "thwack" are you referring to drum hits?

 
Actually the HDP was the only amp I tried that made that sound; not even an iDevice with no amp did that with my HD600 (to be fair though none of them got loud enough to begin with). I encounter it more in car audio where the front midwoofers, despite being essentially designed as free-air drivers, will do that with the wrong combination of the high-pass filter setting (or lack thereof) and loudness; home audio speakers have dedicated cabinets that minimize this, even if you use an entry-level HT receiver driving all five speakers at ear-splitting levels (or at least my ears always said "ENOUGH!!!" before it did).
 
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As for the SM2 it has a lot of bloom in the bass, a very liquid midrange, and recessed but accurate treble.  I really enjoy Roy Khan's voice through them.

 
Seems very different from the other dual driver IEMs I've tried, but if that bass bloom doesn't intrude too much into the low midrange and the midrange is that liquid, it's no surprise a male vocalist like Khan sounds great on them. Makes me regret not getting one.  What I do like about the SE420 (on olives) is the scream of the lead guitar; Westone2 (on the soft grey tips; Complys?) seems to be somewhere between these two.

 

[Jmstrmbn]

To get back on topic what is it you like about the cantate 2 with the 600s?

 

[JCYC5]

I am currently using computer -> audinst HUD-mini -> HD600. I have ordered the Matrix M-Stage and am eying a TubeDAC-11 so I can go computer -> TubeDAC-11 tube out -> M-Stage -> HD600.

Anyone have any experience with the pairing of either the m-stage or TubeDAC with the HD600?

Say at a later date, upgradeitis strikes... How much of an improvement would going balanced with the HD600 be? Or would I be better off getting "better" cans and going balanced later?

 

[FlySweep]

I am currently using computer -> audinst HUD-mini -> HD600. I have ordered the Matrix M-Stage and am eying a TubeDAC-11 so I can go computer -> TubeDAC-11 tube out -> M-Stage -> HD600.
Anyone have any experience with the pairing of either the m-stage or TubeDAC with the HD600?
Say at a later date, upgradeitis strikes... How much of an improvement would going balanced with the HD600 be? Or would I be better off getting "better" cans and going balanced later?

 
I use my HD600 almost exclusively with the TD-11 (I've commented about the synergy a fair bit on the Grant Fidelity TD-11 thread here at HeadFi).  Long impressions short..the HD600 sounds fantastic out of both the headphone & tube output.  When using the HD600 & TD-11, I don't ever feel the need to feed the tube out to a solid state amp (i.e. M-Stage) (and then to the HD600).  IME,one of the most impressive aspects of the tube output is how dead silent/black the background is (this is evident with the very able stock tube.. but becomes even more apparent with other, better performing tubes).  The tube output is very dynamic & offers excellent soundstage depth, too.
 
I've found it's very hit or miss, if not impossible, to drive any <300ohm headphone directly from the tube output (due to the tube output's high output impedance, which I suspect is ~30 ohms).  In the event you do want to use a low impedance headphone with the tube output, having a solid state amp (to use as a front end with the tube output) is handy, though.  A solid state front end gives you the necessary damping needed to accommodate low impedance headphones.
 
I recommend finding a solid state amp that's as uncolored and transparent as possible (i.e. my opinion: the Objective2 and/or Leckerton UHA-6S MKII are excellent choices).  This way, you won't 'further' color the sound of the(already colored)  tube output with the downstream, solid state amp.  With a solid-state front end amp, you'll be able to use the TD-11's wonderful tube output capability with low impedance headphones & even IEMs (as long as the SS front end has sufficiently low output impedance & excessively high gain.. i.e. the O2 & UHA-6S MKII).  The TD-11's volume pot allows you to adjust the output voltage (from the tube & line output) so it can be carefully matched to what your solid state amp prefers (i.e. 1V, 1.5V, 2V, etc.)
 
I can't comment on going balanced & it's benefits as I haven't spent enough time with balanced setups to comment on their advantages over SE setups.  My understanding is that to get the most out of a balanced setup, it's important that the entire chain (from source, to DAC, to amp, to headphone) is balanced.

 

[ProtegeManiac]

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To get back on topic what is it you like about the cantate 2 with the 600s?

 
Detailed, nothing's lacking nor exaggerated, there's crunch to the guitars and drums, dynamic range is good, plus every source I tried with it was substantially different without my having to strain to hear that. I'm not looking to replace this amp ever, except maybe when I can afford a DACCord and Classic combo used a few years from now.

 

[kamalz]

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Right, we get bored and want new toys. that's part of being an audiophile I suppose. The point was made about 'expectation bias' because a lot of money is spent on things that don't actually 'sound even better', but only seem to sound better because we're tricking ourselves. Our brain is manufacturing the improvement in sound(imagining an improvement where there is no measurable difference). In actuality, with some upgrades(cables, interconnects, etc) there's no improvement at all, at least if you believe in carefully controlled double blind tests....tests where no one can tell the difference between a stock cable and an expensive aftermarket one. 

  I have the same opinion previously.
  but now ..i am a strong believer..
  you need to have a good set up rig  to hear difference between stock & after market cable.for hd 600.
  also try to add a good power line conditioner to your head fi rig ..to me shunyata hydra 6 is awesome
  even if you already had one..and  if you still cannot hear the difference, then it would be your capability in hearing..
  You can always went to a doctor to check the frequncy range that your hearing able to identified
  Fortunately..you no need to spend so much money to upgrades