[iancraig10]

Just a query about how people feel about these things.

I did an exchange long time ago for a Stefan Audio cable for my HD650's and 600's.

I've listened a long time and eventually got fed up with the plugs going into the headphone clipping on my shoulders and just the inconvenience of having this cable attached, so I went back to stock.

To be absolutely honest, I was underwhelmed. It was inconvenient on the headphone and also, the sound differences, although there, did not in reality transform the headphones into anything much better than they were with the stock cables. The plug going into the amp was pretty mediocre (and not even straight!!!!) and the plugs going into the headphones were lumpy - basically not that good for that amount of money.

I am still curious about aftermarket cables and their effect on the headphones and I'm wondering whether there are intrepid cable makers out there who make good cables at sensible prices?

I am absolutely gobsmacked by some of the prices for wire with plugs on the ends, so is there any source for something decent sounding, that is actually wearable (Not a hosepipe) that actually improves the sound of these headphones further?

Following my feelings of being underwhelmed with the Stefan cable, I am really not going to pay loads of money for a piece of wire again.

Maybe my setup isn't revealing enough - who knows. I'm using all kinds of sources like a Naim CD player, Ipods - whatever, going into X-cans V2 and V8, (Before, I was using a Solo amp) and if I'm honest - so what? Nothing magical about that cable for me.

Maybe there's a problem sourcing the Sennheiser plugs so there are no custom builders? Nothing much is availble in the UK. Stefan is about it. Pretty rubbish really, so the Brits end up buying these really expensive pieces of wire from abroad only to be hit with import taxes as well!!

If the prices of these cables were (easily) half of what they actually are, I'd even experiment and probably buy more!!!! The fact is, there is no way I'm ever going to experiment again with a £200/$200 cable only to find that the sound/definition isn't that much better for that sort of money.

50$ - 100$ (£) - then I'd start collecting and pay more in the end probably. These cables are a real gamble.

Ian

 

[indydieselnut]

Cables are always an interesting topic but my experience hasn't been radically different than yours. I have a Moon Audio Blue Dragon v.3 and a Zu Mobius v.2 for my multiple pairs of HD650's. I love the headphones for much of the solo strings and string chamber music I listen to and the subtle, but audible, difference these cables bring is worth it to me. People that talk about "night-and-day" differences between cables either have much better ears than mine or are of the "sharpener" school of audio review. Both are legitimate, I just find the differences are usually up the diminishing returns curve. As always, just my two cents...

 

[iancraig10]

Yes. I have no doubt that the cables are the key to a better sound on already good setups.

My quibble is the price and because of the price, I am unable to experiment or even hear these cables before I buy them.

At least with a headphone, you can actually go into a shop and try them out. Cables are entirely different and can be more expensive than the headphone itself.

If the cables were less money, I'd be more inclined to try, but no way given the prices of some of these monsters. For instance, if they were actually priced around $50 - 100, I'd probably buy quite a few. The problem is taking a chance on a review on a cable that can cost way above $200.

Interestingly, I've had 4 offers within the past half hour from people selling cables. No way, would I risk $200 again on a piece of wire that someone has reviewed as being so great. If prices were lower, then I'd take a chance.

I have no doubt that get a good'un and the headphones will take off because that really has been the case with my home speaker set up which also cost a great deal of money.

It's just seems grotesque for a piece of wire!!

Ian

 

[indydieselnut]

Ian, I'm certainly not arguing that the prices are high in an absolute sense. However, there are cable designers out there that have invested some time and energy in finding the correct configuration to achieve the sound they desire. This time is a large component of the cost.

I had a chance to take home some Nordost Valhalla interconnects to compare to the Heimdall that I eventually bought. My system is nowhere near the price structure where Valhalla would feel at home, but I was surprised that there was a subtle, but audible difference between the two cables. Remember, I don't feel the need to substantiate any subjective impressions I have...I'm not reviewing or recommending anything here. The point I'm making is that my personal threshold for wire expenditure topped out at the good deal I got on the Heimdall ICs where someone else wants nothing but the Odin at roughly 25x the price.

You and I are saying the same thing, our threshold is just slightly different.

 

[iancraig10]

It's difficult with cables because there's no easy way to hear them before you buy - other than go to a show where someone may have something decent connected to some headphones.

In the UK it's absolutely dreadful. Basically, there is only the Stefan cable. At least it is an upgrade from the stock. However, that's all there is so for us it's guesswork or relying on reviews from others in places like Headfi.

I do appreciate that a lot of time has gone into the development of cables but it's just a risky venture for buyers where you can so easily be duped as well.

What surprises me is the number of cables for speakers in UK are really healthy (although it can be difficult again, to audition) yet there is nada for headphones.

Also with cables, it is one of those areas where we have to trust the seller in that it is actually an improvement since we are unable to audition. If Stefans for example were a quarter of the price, I wonder whether the sales would be 4 times what they are now because the risk isn't so great for the buyer. Ie - the Stefan relies on reputation for sales, so other cables that don't have a reputation must find it very difficult to get into the market.

My feelings are that someone who makes a reasonable cable (nothing fancy) with good connections could make a killing in a market that relies on heavy advertising via 'scientific develop' and 'new technology' with one simple thing - price.

I don't think think it's that expensive to improve on the HD650 cable which we can buy for £20(?). So if we can get something at £50, it could be the killer price/performance area for someone. There are a lot of headphone users who would jump at the opportunity to change the stock cable on the HD650 and the only thing that stops them is the high cost of some of the 'exotic' things available. 10 foot of wire and three plugs.

I'm not anti-cable or a non-believer in cable changes - I suppose I'm a bit anxious about risking another £200 (or more) on a cable that really would make less of a difference than buying a headphone that costs $200 more than the ones I'm using. If I was sure that a cable made a difference that I liked, then I would certainly buy it, but no longer as the result of reviewers and advertsements. I'd need to hear it.

Ian

 

[Uncle Erik]

Quote:

Originally Posted by indydieselnut /img/forum/go_quote.gif Ian, I'm certainly not arguing that the prices are high in an absolute sense. However, there are cable designers out there that have invested some time and energy in finding the correct configuration to achieve the sound they desire. This time is a large component of the cost. I had a chance to take home some Nordost Valhalla interconnects to compare to the Heimdall that I eventually bought. My system is nowhere near the price structure where Valhalla would feel at home...

First, it's not even possible to develop a cable. There is no time invested. It's simply a styling exercise. By all accounts, there is no way to test or measure a cable. Skeptics say that's because there's no difference and believers say that's because the testing equipment and methods are inadequate.

However, both sides agree that measurement is not possible. Ipso facto, it is impossible to develop a cable. You pretty just make something up, send your "design" to one of a handful of companies in China that makes custom wire. They all cost about the same, too.

Then they ship you a spool, you cut it up and terminate it, and most mark it up several hundred percent, if not more.

Second, money invested says absolutely nothing about the quality of the gear. You don't have to match a $5,000 cable with a $10,000 CD player.

The prices do not indicate quality.

Prices only tell you how much the retailer decided to charge for it. If you take a cost accounting approach to gear, you'll notice an obscene amount of profit built into so-called "high end" gear. Not just the cables, but a lot of the CD players and DACs have $500-$600 in parts and are priced into the high four figures.

You'll also see a lot of companies recycling innards from cheaper units into their high-end ones with a minor tweak or two.

A lot of audio is awfully close to a scam. Look at how much the components actually cost. Look at how much profit is built into things.

Oh, as for the aftermarket cables, I had the Cardas and the Blue Dragon.

Not a lick of difference between them and the stock cables for the HD-600 and HD-650.

I did like the Cardas, though. It was nicely made and had a good feel. It didn't sound different at all.

Couldn't measure any difference, either.

 

[iancraig10]

Erik. You brought tears to my eyes ......

I had the same problem with the Stefan and sound and cost and .......

The only thing that I imagined or heard was a slight treble lift. Now I'm beginning to think I imagined it.

You saved me a lot of money. The thing is, I'm curious but the cost is just too high just for a bit of curiosity.

Thank you!

Ian

 

[indydieselnut]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Uncle Erik /img/forum/go_quote.gif First, it's not even possible to develop a cable. There is no time invested. It's simply a styling exercise. By all accounts, there is no way to test or measure a cable. Skeptics say that's because there's no difference and believers say that's because the testing equipment and methods are inadequate. However, both sides agree that measurement is not possible. Ipso facto, it is impossible to develop a cable. You pretty just make something up, send your "design" to one of a handful of companies in China that makes custom wire. They all cost about the same, too. Then they ship you a spool, you cut it up and terminate it, and most mark it up several hundred percent, if not more. Second, money invested says absolutely nothing about the quality of the gear. You don't have to match a $5,000 cable with a $10,000 CD player. The prices do not indicate quality. Prices only tell you how much the retailer decided to charge for it. If you take a cost accounting approach to gear, you'll notice an obscene amount of profit built into so-called "high end" gear. Not just the cables, but a lot of the CD players and DACs have $500-$600 in parts and are priced into the high four figures. You'll also see a lot of companies recycling innards from cheaper units into their high-end ones with a minor tweak or two. A lot of audio is awfully close to a scam. Look at how much the components actually cost. Look at how much profit is built into things. Oh, as for the aftermarket cables, I had the Cardas and the Blue Dragon. Not a lick of difference between them and the stock cables for the HD-600 and HD-650. I did like the Cardas, though. It was nicely made and had a good feel. It didn't sound different at all. Couldn't measure any difference, either.

I appreciate the thought that went into this reply and it reminded me, once again, why I should never respond to a thread regarding cables. Have a lovely weekend everyone.

 

[dallan]

I have had two experiences with cabling. For my HD650s I got Zu Mobius cable and the difference was huge, I went back and forth and couldn't believe how much a piece of wire could open them up, but of course the stock wire was ridiculous.
The other was recabling my SR225 because I wanted a shorter/easier to deal with mobil wire. It was still a high end one based on V2 from apuresound. With this one i could not take it off and a/b it but from audio memory, which is sketchy, I have to admit, I heard no difference at all.

So there are two different conclusions from one person. I will say though that after a friend recabled his HD800 and swore by the recable, I bit and ordered a recable. Really I am eventually going to go balanced so this cable is being made so it can easily be converted to balanced, which was part of my reasoning. Ordered a couple of weeks ago but a part was on backorder(story of my life) because he normally didn't make these for SE. I'll report about them later.

My suggestion is talk to people you trust or hear the same as and see what they use.

 

[Steve Eddy]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Uncle Erik /img/forum/go_quote.gif You pretty just make something up, send your "design" to one of a handful of companies in China that makes custom wire.

Or one of a handful of companies in the US that makes custom wire.

se

 

[iancraig10]

Quote:

Originally Posted by dallan /img/forum/go_quote.gif My suggestion is talk to people you trust or hear the same as and see what they use.

Thanks for that. It is difficult given the prices of some of these cables.

I was quite disappointed in the end with the Stephan Audio cable if I'm honest. There may have been a slight difference but I didn't miss it when I went back to stock. In fact, it was a relief to get the weight off the ear cups and also not to have the plugs touching my shoulders every time I turned my head.

The trouble here is that people get so het up and angry about cables like the guy above who reacted badly because someone disagreed. I do wonder if the anger that people show comes from the fact that a lot of money has been spent on whatever cable .....

I don't actually know. Just trying to get to the point where I can see how much I would need to spend in order to get 'improvements'. The Stephan seemed to just be a sideways step imo. I know that many people love this cable, but it wasn't for me.

Ian

 

[dallan]

Components first then worry about cables and plugs.

 

[iancraig10]

Quote:

Originally Posted by dallan /img/forum/go_quote.gif Components first then worry about cables and plugs.

Well, my set up isn't too cheap but as always looking for a 'cleaner' window to hear through.

I've received emails from guys selling cables for $400 and more. That's a good pair of headphones, which would make an even bigger difference!!

Ian

 

[dallan]

Quote:

Originally Posted by iancraig10 /img/forum/go_quote.gif Well, my set up isn't too cheap but as always looking for a 'cleaner' window to hear through. Ian

Cool, I couldn't tell because it is not listed on your profile. I have been known to spend too much on cables but my most expensive pair i got used on ebay for a fraction of the price(which was still a lot!). Here they are: http://www.zucable.com/cables.html?p...&category_id=4

 

[fhuang]

Quote:

Originally Posted by indydieselnut /img/forum/go_quote.gif I appreciate the thought that went into this reply and it reminded me, once again, why I should never respond to a thread regarding cables. Have a lovely weekend everyone.

haven't been to here, the cable forum.......