[jax]

Quote:

Originally Posted by chadbang /img/forum/go_quote.gif Bwahahahha. Mission accomplished! No actually, I think we should put the whale on trial. We need more action in the courts. Frankly, I could have seen the thread closed after this comment. Hysterical:

I think the moderators turn a blind eye to Kirosia since he keeps us all laughing! I enjoyed his blog as well. Now I always look for the little pink balloon.

 

[marvin]

Quote:

Originally Posted by oqvist /img/forum/go_quote.gif Humans kill for sports too. 95 % for sports 5 % for food it seems...

I'd make a fair wager than a whole lot more animals are bred and killed for food than killed for sport.

Quote:

Originally Posted by jax Lets make that a bit more accurate. You've left out a very important part of the equation: Joe Orca was forcibly taken out of his natural habitat, which is freely roaming thousands and thousands of square miles of ocean where friends, family and food are abundant, and is basically confined to live in his own toilet 24/7 for the rest of his life as far as he knows. He cannot leave and is forced to do the same things over and over day in an day out in order to get his food.

Joe Factoryworker was forcibly taken out of his natural habitat, which is freely roaming thousands and thousands of square miles of African savannah where friends, family and food are abundant, and is basically confined to live in a dingy factory town 24/7 for the rest of his life as far as he knows. He cannot leave and is forced to do the same things over and over day in an day out in order to get his food. Yet it's usually been considered murder if he decides to plant a shank between his supervisor's eyes one day.

Animal mental states are qualitatively different from humans and it's a folly to draw conclusions on their mental states based on how a human would feel in the same situation. About the only conclusion that can be drawn is that millions of years of evolution overcame a few decades of training.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Graphicism /img/forum/go_quote.gif Hehe, some would say they are for eating raw vegetables... you can't do that without teeth! Elephants, gorillas, hippos, horses, cows, oxen all have teeth!

That specific tooth would be very poorly designed for eating vegetables as is the human digestive system in general. What we are very good at is killing.

 

[jax]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Graphicism /img/forum/go_quote.gif With this in mind perhaps the questions should be... if a human was captured for 25 years, had to live in his own toilet and is forced to do things daily, not to mention being electrocuted for sperm... would it be alright for this human to kill his boss in order to escape/try escape ~ would we treat him as a criminal back in society or have pity.

If we were SeaWorld, we'd just bring in a new boss.



Quote:

Originally Posted by Graphicism /img/forum/go_quote.gif Hehe, some would say they are for eating raw vegetables... you can't do that without teeth! Elephants, gorillas, hippos, horses, cows, oxen all have teeth!

I believe the image was pointing out the incisors which are supposedly meant to masticate meat. Not sure that all the critters you mention have them, though I believe Gorillas do.

Whether or not we evolved from meat eaters, that does not obviate the fact that we actually have a choice. By the way, I'm definitely NOT a vegetarian.

 

[deadhead12]

Quote:

Originally Posted by jax /img/forum/go_quote.gif The idea that anyone would even question whether the whale should be held accountable for its actions, or whether its actions could be construed as "murder" is so utterly absurd and outrageous that is simply cannot wrap my head around it.

Perhaps because you have no sense of humor?

 

[jax]

Quote:

Originally Posted by deadhead12 /img/forum/go_quote.gif Perhaps because you have no sense of humor?

Ah, then you REALLY don't know me.

 

[deadhead12]

Quote:

Originally Posted by jax /img/forum/go_quote.gif Ah, then you REALLY don't know me.

True.

Edit: As I see the OP's question, It's more of a satire on the legal system. No one is really questioning whether the whale is at fault. But as I said earlier, In some states, It could be considered murder. In Cali, an argument can be made that its second degree murder. Of course though, as I have also said earlier in this thread, a jury would probably nullify. Of course, it will never, nor should ever get to that point.

 

[jax]

Quote:

Originally Posted by marvin /img/forum/go_quote.gif I'd make a fair wager than a whole lot more animals are bred and killed for food than killed for sport. Joe Factoryworker was forcibly taken out of his natural habitat, which is freely roaming thousands and thousands of square miles of African savannah where friends, family and food are abundant, and is basically confined to live in a dingy factory town 24/7 for the rest of his life as far as he knows. He cannot leave and is forced to do the same things over and over day in an day out in order to get his food. Yet it's usually been considered murder if he decides to plant a shank between his supervisor's eyes one day. Animal mental states are qualitatively different from humans and it's a folly to draw conclusions on their mental states based on how a human would feel in the same situation. About the only conclusion that can be drawn is that millions of years of evolution overcame a few decades of training. That specific tooth would be very poorly designed for eating vegetables as is the human digestive system in general. What we are very good at is killing.

It's a good point you make about animal's vs. human "mental states". I would add, since none of us are whales (or chickens or dogs or cows, etc, ...at least I hope not) how would any of us have even a remote clue as what it is to be any of those creatures, and what their "mental states" actually are?

 

[Graphicism]

Quote:

Originally Posted by jax /img/forum/go_quote.gif I believe the image was pointing out the incisors which are supposedly meant to masticate meat. Not sure that all the critters you mention have them, though I believe Gorillas do. Whether or not we evolved from meat eaters, that does not obviate the fact that we actually have a choice. By the way, I'm definitely NOT a vegetarian.

And elephants, cats, horses, rabbits... it really makes no sense.

Interesting though I did read that the appendix was once used to house enzymes that help digest plants and the likes. So perhaps through our millions-of-year evolution we have gone from plant eaters, to figuring out we can bash stuff with stick, killing and eating our ancestor homo erectus, homo australopithecus and thus being who we are today.

With that said I am a meat eater.

 

[talleywho]

The news said that the whale won't be destroyed, and it was already not being used as
an attraction due to it's aggressive behavior, and it's too conditioned to humans to be
released to the wild. So I guess it will be imprisoned in solitary confinement living
in a concrete tub eating frozen dead fish for the rest of it's life... aren't humans such humane animals?

Maybe he was due a little payback.
.

 

[CrazyRay]

Quote:

Originally Posted by talleywho /img/forum/go_quote.gif The news said that the whale won't be destroyed, and it was already not being used as an attraction due to it's aggressive behavior, and it's too conditioned to humans to be released to the wild. So I guess it will be imprisoned in solitary confinement living in a concrete tub eating frozen dead fish for the rest of it's life... aren't humans such humane animals? Maybe he was due a little payback. .

 

[jax]

Quote:

Originally Posted by deadhead12 /img/forum/go_quote.gif True. Edit: As I see the OP's question, It's more of a satire on the legal system. No one is really questioning whether the whale is at fault. But as I said earlier, In some states, It could be considered murder. In Cali, an argument can be made that its second degree murder. Of course though, as I have also said earlier in this thread, a jury would probably nullify. Of course, it will never, nor should ever get to that point.

I didn't make the connection to the legal system since that system is made by humans for humans, but I suppose the connection is there. Again, if I were to hold anyone accountable it would be the people who choose to take these creatures out of the wild for entertainment and profit. Ultimately they all know the risks, as did the trainer. Anyway, I thought of it more as a moral debate they were bringing up. Also that the OP may be trolling the waters for some lively, provocative conversation, which, given their last comment, is probably more accurate.

The fate of the whale is sad no matter how you look at it, as is the fate of the trainer.

 

[deadhead12]

I took "could whales murder" to mean can whales be convicted of murder, hypothetically speaking of course. Actually, there is such a thing as animal law, so humans do make laws with animals in mind as well.

 

[Drag0n]

Jax: Im just wondering how long those bloody carcas pictures will stay up.
Maybe not as long as all the boobie pictures in threads and avatars here (you know those birds right?).

Also....Why so "bloody" huge??????

 

[jax]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Drag0n /img/forum/go_quote.gif Jax: Im just wondering how long those bloody carcas pictures will stay up. Maybe not as long as all the boobie pictures in threads and avatars here (you know those birds right?). Also....Why so "bloody" huge??????

Yeah, sorry about that...pretty grusome, eh? I DID try to find a smaller image of that one huge one. I could not find one quite as powerful as that one, but thought it really nailed the point home because of all the blood splatter reflecting that the guy had actually did Bugs and company in while their hearts were still beating. I'd much rather look at the boobie avatars!

 

[subtle]

Quote:

Originally Posted by marvin /img/forum/go_quote.gif That specific tooth would be very poorly designed for eating vegetables as is the human digestive system in general.

Would you please provide the proof and/or sources you used to make this assessment?