[mikiphile]

   
If you're saying… does the Yggy compare to 10K+ DACs ?  The short answer is NO… why would it ?  What makes you say "ultra high end stuff" is overpriced… especially used ?
 
A "statement DAC worth several thousand" (under 10K ?) is an oxymoron…  a statement DAC would certainly be over 20K… perhaps way more-
 
Sorry.. you asked...
 
David

  High end makers/sellers love this kind of thinking: "It costs more + I can afford it + I must be smart because I earned lots of money + being so smart I naturally understand the economics of building fine things compared to less fine things = I'm going to purchase expensive things so my things will be finer than what so many others buy".
 
More on topic of OP: I like listening to music converted through YGGY to speakers and look forward to an opportunity to listen critically and make some comparisons and thoughtful notes so I can try and contribute to this thread. Thank you to those who have already!!!

 
and we have the whole over the top packaging and cosmetics in high end audio - easily several times more money spent on what you look at than what you listen to - the insiders really do call the Rhodium plated solid silver RCA, ect "jewelry"

 
@Wino YES, that was my question. The reason I asked is because I haven't had the opportunity to personally audition the Yggy myself, and even if I had, I probably would't have been able to compare it well to the ultra (overpriced) high end stuff because I have heard only a couple of high end CDP/DACs. If the answer had been "YES", than I absolutely would't have needed to hear the Yggy and I would have ordered it blindly (or "deafly"). Because, who on earth would pay 10k $ + for something that's inferior to the Yggy. Duh 

 The point was to establish how well Yggy performs in comparison to some - possibly superior - higher priced units.
 
Also @Wino: Well obviously "ultra (overpriced) high end stuff". I wrote "overpriced" because I believe that most of the "audiophile" brands put unnecessary emphasis on aesthetics and design. I LOVE well designed audio components, but I HATE the idea of paying a premium price for something JUST because it is well designed and performs less than marginally better compared to something which is a few times cheaper. I was so impressed by the MBL 101 x-treme, but as much as I was, I felt like the luxury feel design of the CD player and preamp played an important part in their pricing.
 
People who worked hard to earn their money are definitely more value conscious than other wealthy people. But do not confuse value consciousness for a great deal of knowledge of audio, or any other hobby for that matter.
 
How the lack of technical knowledge can influence an otherwise value conscious person to waste money - A very common case in long range shooting:
 
In the hobby of long range precision shooting, a value conscious person would be happy to spend about $1,500 on a Nightforce scope thinking that he has made the right purchase decision. Why not? The scope has amazing glass, a big objective lens (50+ mm), variable power up to 20x+, fancy reticle design, etc. What the weekend shooter doesn't realize because of his non-scientific approach, is that he has bought an absolutely useless scope for precision shooting (I have nothing against Nightforce, they make good scopes). A SFP (second focal plane) scope renders the MRAD (or MOA) reticle completely useless. The reticle would denominate the angular measurement only at a particular magnification power, so why pay a premium price for a variable power scope when that particular feature makes the scope useless.. and so on.. you get the point.
 
@noshortcuts Thanks, I look forward to getting more info on how the Yggy sounds with speakers.
 
The reason I posted the question - which spurred this whole discussion of Yggy vs high end DACs 

 - is because I might have a particular setup in mind, and was curious to find out if the Yggy would belong in the setup (SQ relative to price - wise). I even emphasized that it's not a super high end system. 
 
So to be more precise (I know that this thread, hell, this website isn't intended to discuss speakers), I was looking at something like:
 
-PC audio player>Yggdrasil>(some preamp)>Mark Levinson No. 532H>JBL Synthesis S4700
 
Would be cool if someone has experience with these speakers (possibly together with the amp), otherwise I was just curious about general remarks about the Yggy with speakers and comparisons to other higher end DACs 

 

[purrin]

What other DACs do you have in mind? Yggy beats Invicta, Cantata, MSB Analog + pb, PSB Platinum, Bricasti M1, Berkeley Alpha 2 + Alpha USB, Vega, Hugo TT, Lampi 4, Lamp 5, Lamp Big 5, every fairly recent Wadia, and quite a few other $$$ ones. All of these DACs are more costly than Yggy, but some are definitely way more pretty and much lighter. MSB and Wadia are tonally warmer than Yggy, but really you don't need warmer with your JBL S4700s. As far as how Yggy is specifically better and in what aspects, would you need to ask specifics.

 

[mikiphile]

  What other DACs do you have in mind? Yggy beats Invicta, Cantata, MSB Analog + pb, PSB Platinum, Bricasti M1, Berkeley Alpha 2 + Alpha USB, Vega, Hugo TT, Lampi 4, Lamp 5, Lamp Big 5, every fairly recent Wadia, and quite a few other $$$ ones. All of these DACs are more costly than Yggy, but some are definitely way more pretty and much lighter. MSB and Wadia are tonally warmer than Yggy, but really you don't need warmer with your JBL S4700s. As far as how Yggy is specifically better and in what aspects, would you need to ask specifics.

 
Cool, thanks! I just wanted to get the general feedback. In terms of sound, I to put emphasis on resolution and soundstage, while I like a very neutral sound in general. I remember reading some comparisons in this thread about how the Yggy didn't have the 3D soundstage of a similarly priced DAC, I'd have to dig to find that post though. I know that with speakers an even more important factor is the room obviously, but that was an interesting observation to me. I'm a fan of Schiit obviously, and I was curious to see if this DAC had lived up to the hype. Probably, I'd seriously consider buying it once I finally audition it.
 
Anyway, this is still fairly hypothetical for me, it would probably be a year before I actually get the setup I want. I heard the speakers + amp once and I really liked the sound. It seems like they have dropped in price considerably, and that made them even more attractive.

 

[US Blues]

@mikiphile- I run Yggy with a speaker set-up, Yggy with speakers is certainly 3D in it's presentation of music. Iggy will fit quite nicely into the system you describe, Yggy goes away and leaves music, this is what we desire from a system.

 

[ciphercomplete]

   
Cool, thanks! I just wanted to get the general feedback. In terms of sound, I to put emphasis on resolution and soundstage, while I like a very neutral sound in general. I remember reading some comparisons in this thread about how the Yggy didn't have the 3D soundstage of a similarly priced DAC, I'd have to dig to find that post though. 

 
I couldn't find that post.  I will say that mistakes in speaker placement will shrink soundstage depth and width dramatically.  Bad room acoustics and comb filtering will kill soundstage even faster.  FWIW I had to make slight speaker placement adjustments when I switched the Master 7 out for the Yggy.

 

[llkmi]

  @mikiphile- I run Yggy with a speaker set-up, Yggy with speakers is certainly 3D in it's presentation of music. Iggy will fit quite nicely into the system you describe, Yggy go aways and leaves music, this is what we desire from a system.

Same here - I run Yggy on speakers only and detail and uncanny 3d image & realism are Yggy's strong points.(Although I am not sure I could identify any low points - but those elements are the ones that really stick with you.)

 

[purrin]

   
Cool, thanks! I just wanted to get the general feedback. In terms of sound, I to put emphasis on resolution and soundstage, while I like a very neutral sound in general. I remember reading some comparisons in this thread about how the Yggy didn't have the 3D soundstage of a similarly priced DAC, I'd have to dig to find that post though. I know that with speakers an even more important factor is the room obviously, but that was an interesting observation to me. I'm a fan of Schiit obviously, and I was curious to see if this DAC had lived up to the hype. Probably, I'd seriously consider buying it once I finally audition it.
 
Anyway, this is still fairly hypothetical for me, it would probably be a year before I actually get the setup I want. I heard the speakers + amp once and I really liked the sound. It seems like they have dropped in price considerably, and that made them even more attractive.

 
I'm sure others may have difference experiences, but personally I have not heard a DAC that has the combination of imaging precision, depth (or even height) and the sense of the size of the venue as the Yggy. The Theta Gen V I had before comes close. One other DAC I have and still own, the Sonic Frontiers SFD-1mk2 SE+ has the same sense of spaciousness and depth, but the imaging is not as precise and the overall soundstage is somewhat faked or diffused. My statements regarding soundstage are with both headphones and speakers; but admittedly, I am somewhat too dumb to hear a soundstage with headphones (or it's more like I don't care because the headphone experience is a totally different thing.) My preferred listening is via speakers which are open two foot wide high-efficiency open baffles with Lowthers up top and 15" woofers below. The back wall has two bookcase towers for diffusion and two absorbers. The speakers are four feet from the back wall. With the Rag driving the speakers, the stage is more upfront. You are in the first 10 rows. With the EC Studio (tube amp), the stage is back a little bit. You are in the middle rows. YMMV. The only thing I would say is make sure you understand what kinds of setups other people are running. Always ask.
 
In terms of resolution or ability to reproduce low level musical information, no other DAC I have heard even comes remotely close to the Yggy. The ones that might come close are the Bricasti M1, Alpha 2 with Alpha USB, or Theta Gen V. Other DACs like the MSB seem to focus more on correct tone and fluidity. MSBs are no slouches in the resolution department, but they do not compete against the best D-S DACs in terms of resolution. The ability to actually realize this increased resolution will be highly dependent upon amps and transducers used. If you run a colored tube preamp in the middle of the chain, all bets are off. If you use headphones that can't reproduce the low level musical information (some pricey planers actually don't do well reproducing microdetail), all bets are off. However, what I found remarkable is how much musical information actually exists in even mediocre recordings in Redbook format - realized with Yggy of course.
 
P.S. JBL S4700s are totally worth it. A bargain compared to 99% of the overpriced crap commonly seen and heard at the audio shows. Also consider other amps. ML is overpriced.

 

[dukja]

I have been loosely following the impression of Yggy.  It seems to me the strength of Yggy is on the 3D resolution and details.  Several great reviews seem to come from users of speakers.  I am curious that what may be the major improvement of Yggy for a dedicated headphone users (using such as HD800 or HE6 as an example).  Using my current Ref-7 as an example, I can understand some improvement such as reduce the mid-bass booming that purrin mentioned.  There must be more improvement that a headphone user can appreciate, right?  
 
The things I have enjoyed most out of my Ref-7 > Aleph 3 > He-6 is the sub-bass quantity and quality.  The weight and impact of those sonic component out of Interstella soundtrack is amazing and I enjoy a lot.   Things like that would also be the strength of Yggy?
 
I would appreciate some more sharing (or reiterate,

 ) from that point.  Thanks!

 

[Chris F]

IMO the primary strength of  Yggy on headphones is that it is unbelievably resolving but it does this naturally and without shoving the mids in your face.  Bass quality with Yggdrasil is also incredible; one of it's strengths.

 

[dukja]

  IMO the primary strength of  Yggy on headphones is that it is unbelievably resolving but it does this naturally and without shoving the mids in your face.  Bass quality with Yggdrasil is also incredible; one of it's strengths.

That is good to hear that it is detail but not up-to-the-front.  Very desirable thing for HD800 and HE6.  Thanks!!

 

[purrin]

  That is good to hear that it is detail but not up-to-the-front.  Very desirable thing for HD800 and HE6.  Thanks!!

 
On the other hand, your AGD REF 7 is just as natural sounding.
 
It's debatable in your case if you will hear significant improvements with your setup. Amps made for speakers tend to be less resolving than dedicated headphone amps, although the Aleph 3 is about as a straightforward as it gets. Also I'm not sure if the HE-6 will take advantage of Yggy's resolution as well as say an HD800. One thing I've noticed is that Yggy's stage depth does not translate as well to headphones as well as it does headphones. Finally, the REF7, being tonally warmer and lusher than Yggy, might be a better match for your Aleph 3 + HE6 combination. (The Pass amps tend to be neutral and the HE6 can have a good edge.) Yggy does slam harder and is more articulate in the bass, but is definitely not warm or lush like the REF 7.

 

[negura]

I can confirm that both he Hd800 and HE6s scale significantly in resolution with the Yggdrasil vs the Theta Gen V for example. Both on the Eddie Current and, for the latter, on my class A solid state speaker amp and both these headphones can be modded to sound neutral or warmer. The Theta is warmer and richer sounding than Yggy with slightly heftier bass and denser mids. I enjoy a neutral or very slightly warm sound, so I am really enjoying the Yggdrasil with both amps and those headphones. I am sure some might prefer the Theta though if they are not particularly interested in moar resolution and look for a richer warmer sound.

 

[dukja]

@purrin and @negura: Thanks a lot for the honest and sincere replies.  I do prefer slightly warmer sound with substance as long as the focusing was not suffered too much.  Your testimony can save me big bucks in venturing to the wrong direction.  It looks the Theta Gen Va will be more in-line with my preference.   Thanks a lot!!

 

[preproman]

.

 

[Wildcatsare1]

I thought the HE6 was only moderate at best on staging, especially versus the HD800. Is my impression incorrect?