[Raveron89]

There are gain knobs for center and surround channels individually. Set their level by ear relative to the L and R channels. The beauty of Syn is in the simplicity!

I set the levels with processing (width and presence) disabled, and then use the width and presence knobs as needed. Once overall levels are set I don't touch them much at all. I only rarely use processing for programs that need it, like the F1 racing example I mentioned above.

When listening to music with all channels active, I usually attenuate the subwoofer and center channels a bit. For TV and movies I have like to have the center and sub turned up higher for clearer dialog and low frequency effects.

Enjoy your Syn when you get it!! My advice above really only relates to 3.1 or 5.1 setups. I haven't really used it for 2-channel only, but I'm sure it will work out great.

Thank you!! This helps a lot.
I am switching to monoblocks for my LR and since I want to build a 5.1 system and get a Syn eventually, getting it early and use it as a preamp for the time being. Will be interesting to see if I can get anything extra out of it as it sends full signal to LR channels.
Will share more here once I have a chance to play with it for a bit.

 

[scottm18]

Unfortunately I won't be able to use the subwoofer because I have it tied into my preamp for regular multi-channel through my Oppo 205 (it only has one input and I'm not going to go the split signal "Y" avenue). Luckily I have the now 20 years old but absolutely classic Innovative Audio cabinet speakers for fronts and center, and equally classic Acoustic Research Phantom 8.3 for surround. All those are full range (large), including two 10" woofers for the main Left Right speakers... So hopefully I wouldn't miss a subwoofer (dual 10") that much. I really need to get the Syn, connected to my two channel Sabre 9038 Pro-fed Oppo output and see what it will do!

 

[Tbone289]

Thank you!! This helps a lot.
I am switching to monoblocks for my LR and since I want to build a 5.1 system and get a Syn eventually, getting it early and use it as a preamp for the time being. Will be interesting to see if I can get anything extra out of it as it sends full signal to LR channels.
Will share more here once I have a chance to play with it for a bit.

You're welcome. Yes, LR are full signal and are "untouched" when processing is turned off. However, you can still apply processing to LR, so you can have some fun with that before you complete the whole system.

One thing I haven't mentioned is that the onboard ESS ES9018 DAC does a very good job. The only reason I'm using an external DAC (Bifrost OG MB as pictured above) is that I need coax input for music playback from a WiiM Pro streamer in addition to Toslink from the TV.

I'm looking forward to your impressions. I have no doubt you'll like it.

 

[brjoon1021]

Thanks to Autiomatic and SLC1966. I understand that you're satisfied with the Syn and that's great news. The Zero dB of gain for the L/R main speakers still has me stumped. Even on the Magni+ (Schiit's website) I'm seeing Gain: -8dB, 0dB, or 14dB, selectable via front switch on the Specs tab.
My L/R main speakers will be NHT 3.3's driven by an Aragon 8008bb. Sort of a match made in heaven. I've tried the original Saga that's basically a passive preamp and it just doesn't have the UMPH needed for the 3.3/8008 combination. My go to preamp is an Acurus RL11 that has as much as 18dB of gain and an input sensitivity of 60mv. Max output is 8V. Any comments and thoughts are welcome.

BTW, I did ask Schiit customer service about this and all I got back were the gain numbers on their website. They didn't answer my question about the Main L/R channels being passive or not. Basically no gain from the Syn.

Thanks everyone for the comments.

I asked them for help too and never heard back after several tries. Their support is true schiit

 

[Raveron89]

Just an update.
I did get the Syn and the dac on board sounded pretty good. It brought new life into my systems. Everything sounded bigger, crisper with a sparkle on top.
I did not find the dials much helpful in my 2 channel system. At least I couldn't tell the difference. Maybe once I add in more speakers.
One thing I did find is I had to dial up the volume on my wiim and amp much higher than I did without Syn to get the same dB. Did not expect that. Almost double than what I had it at.
At least until it lasted. It stopped working mid song. I have initiated the exchange process and will be getting another unit later.
The lower volume is making me think though.

 

[Tbone289]

Sorry to hear that @Raveron89 , but I'm sure Schiit support will have you fixed up. They've always been great to me with issues.

The volume issue is odd. Syn is a zero-gain preamp, so at full gain (volume knob at max), it should have the same output as a DAC.

What were you using as a source to your WiiM amp before Syn and it's internal DAC?

 

[Raveron89]

Sorry to hear that @Raveron89 , but I'm sure Schiit support will have you fixed up. They've always been great to me with issues.

The volume issue is odd. Syn is a zero-gain preamp, so at full gain (volume knob at max), it should have the same output as a DAC.

What were you using as a source to your WiiM amp before Syn and it's internal DAC?

Oh yes they were very prompt with their replies and helped me troubleshoot it.
Eventually asked if I want to exchange or get a refund. Did opt for a exchange.

And yes that was odd. I did not expect the volume to hold back.
Not sure if it had an issue.

I was using the Wiim pro as a source and the Fosi ZA3 as amp. I slid the Syn in between and I tripple checked the wiring for looseness.
Only thing I can doubt is if the Wiim optical signal puts out lower volume.
Again, never had to go full volume but it was comforting to know I had a decent ceiling if I needed to.

 

[Tbone289]

Oh yes they were very prompt with their replies and helped me troubleshoot it.
Eventually asked if I want to exchange or get a refund. Did opt for a exchange.

And yes that was odd. I did not expect the volume to hold back.
Not sure if it had an issue.

I was using the Wiim pro as a source and the Fosi ZA3 as amp. I slid the Syn in between and I tripple checked the wiring for looseness.
Only thing I can doubt is if the Wiim optical signal puts out lower volume.
Again, never had to go full volume but it was comforting to know I had a decent ceiling if I needed to.

OH! I get it now, thanks for detailing your audio chain--I misread your prior post. So, you have WiiM Pro>Schiit Syn>Fosi ZA3, and you're using optical out of the WiiM Pro.

The thing is, there is no "volume" associated with a S/PDIF optical signal--it's just a digital signal, so the low volume can't be the fault of the WiiM Pro optical out. There is, however, a digital volume control in the WiiM app, and possibly your player app that could have affected the output level.

Coincedentally, I have a WiiM Pro in the audio chain with my Syn too. It goes WiiM Pro>Schiit Bifrost>Schiit Syn (analog in)>Denon amplifier. I have also had it set up as WiiM Pro>Syn Coax S/PDIF>Denon amplifier. Neither of these setups yields any difference in gain. I have a TV feeding the optical input, and it has normal output as well, whether I'm using the internal DAC or bypassing with the Bifrost DAC.

At this point I'm wondering if the DAC in your Syn failed. Did you try using the analog inputs to the Syn to see if they worked after the failure? This would have isolated it to the DAC or the Syn preamp section. Either way, I would more apt to blame the Syn (since it eventually failed) for the low output rather than WiiM Pro.

 

[Raveron89]

OH! I get it now, thanks for detailing your audio chain--I misread your prior post. So, you have WiiM Pro>Schiit Syn>Fosi ZA3, and you're using optical out of the WiiM Pro.

The thing is, there is no "volume" associated with a S/PDIF optical signal--it's just a digital signal, so the low volume can't be the fault of the WiiM Pro optical out. There is, however, a digital volume control in the WiiM app, and possibly your player app that could have affected the output level.

Coincedentally, I have a WiiM Pro in the audio chain with my Syn too. It goes WiiM Pro>Schiit Bifrost>Schiit Syn (analog in)>Denon amplifier. I have also had it set up as WiiM Pro>Syn Coax S/PDIF>Denon amplifier. Neither of these setups yields any difference in gain. I have a TV feeding the optical input, and it has normal output as well, whether I'm using the internal DAC or bypassing with the Bifrost DAC.

At this point I'm wondering if the DAC in your Syn failed. Did you try using the analog inputs to the Syn to see if they worked after the failure? This would have isolated it to the DAC or the Syn preamp section. Either way, I would more apt to blame the Syn (since it eventually failed) for the low output rather than WiiM Pro.

I agree with your assessment. And thanks for sharing your setup.
I planned on connecting my TV to the wiim optical and just change source on the Wiim pro. Never got that far.
I used it purely for music while I had it.

I did troubleshoot with rca out from the wiim pro to the Syn. Mine just kept flashing the source lights all 3 of them together. No matter what I tried, the 3 lights just kept flashing and no audio out. Something fried in the source selector section from the looks of it.

Normally (without Syn), on the Wiim pro my volume is 1/3. ZA3 the dial is at half mark.
With Syn volume dial at 3/4 in the chain, I have to dial Wiim up to 3/4th.
Once I get the new unit, I'll max out on Syn volume and see if it matches my usual setup.

 

[Tbone289]

I'm still loving Syn, and I feel it's best money I've spent on home theater in a very long time.

However, there are two improvements I would request for a "version 2":

• Improve remote sensor positioning, away from the headphone jack. With headphones plugged in, the remote signal is not received if you're positioned anywhere left of center.
• Include a switch to enable the subwoofer channel in 2-channel mode. I realize I can use surround mode and minimize center and surround level controls to achieve the same, but a switch would be much more convenient and I wouldn't have to reset center and surround gains each time.

 

[USAudio]

I'm still loving Syn, and I feel it's best money I've spent on home theater in a very long time.

However, there are two improvements I would request for a "version 2":

• Improve remote sensor positioning, away from the headphone jack. With headphones plugged in, the remote signal is not received if you're positioned anywhere left of center.
• Include a switch to enable the subwoofer channel in 2-channel mode. I realize I can use surround mode and minimize center and surround level controls to achieve the same, but a switch would be much more convenient and I wouldn't have to reset center and surround gains each time.

Agreed to all the above, especially the subwoofer switch/mode to enable 2.1 more easily.

 

[Skip Pack]

Agreed to all the above, especially the subwoofer switch/mode to enable 2.1 more easily.

Your suggestions make sense for HT use. I am using my Syn presently (with great success to my old ears) for three channel reproduction of 2 channel inputs. I am using 3 Nostromo cabinets I built (Scott Lindgren design) with the prescribed Alpair MarkAudio 11MS drivers. I have drivers to build two more along with cutout wood with the holes and driver rebate done. I chose fullrange (almost) drivers as I believe there is a larger tolerance to variation in listening position, particularly vertically. The Syn design for channel derivation fits this approach well (again, as I hear it).

In this context, I would love to hear from @Jason Stoddard wrt the idea of using five front speakers: My understanding of the analog matrix operations leads me to think that internally within the chain of active buffers, there exists a stage where there is a left signal only, a center (common) signal only, and a right signal only. In all three of these cases, they are not purely as described, but very nearly so; and it is the quality of these three signals that allow the flexibility and quality of the blended outputs. My idea here is that one could use an unmodified stereo input signal fed to a left-center and a right-center speaker identical to the current LCR speakers. All five would be in an arc perhaps 20" on center. The LR adjustments would likely be enough to blend into the central three speakers.

Someone with a full understanding of the internal analog matrix channel derivation can probably affirm, clarify, or destroy my hypothesis here. Thoughts most welcome!

Thanks, Skip

 

[Tbone289]

My understanding of the analog matrix operations leads me to think that internally within the chain of active buffers, there exists a stage where there is a left signal only, a center (common) signal only, and a right signal only. In all three of these cases, they are not purely as described, but very nearly so; and it is the quality of these three signals that allow the flexibility and quality of the blended outputs. My idea here is that one could use an unmodified stereo input signal fed to a left-center and a right-center speaker identical to the current LCR speakers. All five would be in an arc perhaps 20" on center. The LR adjustments would likely be enough to blend into the central three speakers.

Someone with a full understanding of the internal analog matrix channel derivation can probably affirm, clarify, or destroy my hypothesis here. Thoughts most welcome!

Thanks, Skip

What would be the difference between the signals in the 5 front speakers? If you're feeding unmodified stereo signals to the left and right center channels, they would be no different than the L and R channels in the current Syn. In that case, what would the other 3 (C, outer left, outer right) speaker signals be? I'm not sure I see the benefit in 5 vs 3 for the front stage.

 

[Skip Pack]

What would be the difference between the signals in the 5 front speakers? If you're feeding unmodified stereo signals to the left and right center channels, they would be no different than the L and R channels in the current Syn. In that case, what would the other 3 (C, outer left, outer right) speaker signals be? I'm not sure I see the benefit in 5 vs 3 for the front stage.

When you set your syn up you can use the input L and R stereo as the output L and R, with the derived center, or you can set up to derive L, C, and R. If you do the latter, as I do, the outside and center front-to-back knobs become active and change the channel blend. I use that setup. I'm fairly sure that with the "width' knob set to wide the additional two speakers with the stereo signals would fall, blendwise between the outer and center signals. I have always felt that the sound image is bettered when indentical speakers are added and fed the right signals. I'm a believer that the 10-24 speaker immersive systems are amazing, though I'm sure I'll never build one (77 years here), or purchase those expensive releases. I've got to go hear a well set immersive set up someday.

Thanks for your response, Skip

 

[Tbone289]

I understand what you're saying now; you're referencing Syn with processing on.

There's no way to represent a stereo image more accurately than with two speakers with the listener positioned between them. That obviously doesn't work for all seating positions in a home theater, so we have the center channel that helps "anchor" the dialog to the center. This poses problems in itself, as it alters the image (depth mostly) of the original stereo signal. Surround channels compound this even more, but give a nice depth "effect". For a given stereo signal, the more channels you add to the system reproducing it, the more you alter the sound stage from that of the original stereo recording.

Now, if you had a five channel recording with five microphones in the proper arc arrangement that mimics your speaker arc, that is a different story...