[RCBinTN]

  Last night I was comparing the LCD-3 and ETHER both connected balanced to MJ2. The ETHER sounded very impressive with greater detail, airy-ness and soundstage (compared to LCD-3)
But I won't be using the ETHER at home, it's for my work setup. If I want to improve the soundstage and airy-ness of LCD-3, what should I be doing. I know the DAC (DACMagic Plus) is the weakest link in my chain, but my question to the experts is: 
 
  1. Should I upgrade my DAC to get what I am looking to improve on the LCD-3 or
  2. Should I be replacing the tubes, if so which ones.
 
All suggestions are welcome and appreciated.

 
One thing to remember is those HP's have quite a bit different impedance.  It's more difficult to drive the LCD-3 than the Ether.  So, it's not easy to perform an A/B unless you compensate for that difference.  Don't be afraid to turn up the amp so the LCD-3 get a fair shot.  The Ether's sound sweet with almost no volume, but the LCD-3 sound sweet at the proper volume.  Enjoy!!

 

[tuxbass]

@money4me247 @MattTCG @reddog Thanks all for the great input.
I am glad you all agreed on the same thing
 
 
My reasoning behind getting the HPs and Amp first is based on my understanding on upgrades. Which was mentioned somewhere in these forums as:
 
Headphones >> Amp > DAC >>>>> Cables
 
(or something along those lines)
So my understanding was that the DACs made the smallest difference in the chain. Based on what you guys say it looks like my wallet is in for another big hit soonish

 

[tuxbass]

   
One thing to remember is those HP's have quite a bit different impedance.  It's more difficult to drive the LCD-3 than the Ether.  So, it's not easy to perform an A/B unless you compensate for that difference.  Don't be afraid to turn up the amp so the LCD-3 get a fair shot.  The Ether's sound sweet with almost no volume, but the LCD-3 sound sweet at the proper volume.  Enjoy!!

Very true. This actually made my comparison very hard, since I don't like to hear at volume levels that are too loud. So when I set the ETHERs to the max volume that I can tolerate, it was hard to match the volume on the LCD-3 and still keep it below the levels that are acceptable to me. If that made any sense.
 
I'll give it another shot tonight.

 

[reddog]

@money4me247
 @MattTCG
 @reddog
 Thanks all for the great input.
I am glad you all agreed on the same thing


My reasoning behind getting the HPs and Amp first is based on my understanding on upgrades. Which was mentioned somewhere in these forums as:

Headphones >> Amp > DAC >>>>> Cables

(or something along those lines)
So my understanding was that the DACs made the smallest difference in the chain. Based on what you guys say it looks like my wallet is in for another big hit soonish

At at least once you complete your rig, you can turn up the volume and drown out the sobbing lamentations of your freshly drained wallet

 

[tuxbass]

At at least once you complete your rig, you can turn up the volume and drown out the sobbing lamentations of your freshly drained wallet

I like the way you think

 

[money4me247]

  @money4me247 @MattTCG @reddog Thanks all for the great input.
I am glad you all agreed on the same thing
 
My reasoning behind getting the HPs and Amp first is based on my understanding on upgrades. Which was mentioned somewhere in these forums as:
 
Headphones >> Amp > DAC >>>>> Cables
 
(or something along those lines)
So my understanding was that the DACs made the smallest difference in the chain. Based on what you guys say it looks like my wallet is in for another big hit soonish

I think you are right (from my experience) with that type of ranking. However, I do think that tubes make an even smaller relative difference hahaha. probably much more than cables though. the issue is a lot of times, for the price of a matched set of really premium tubes, you can upgrade your headphone or amplifier to the next tier. A lot of times with tubes, it is flavor preferences too I think rather than one being definitely superior. I think it is possible to find a lot of solid cheap gems, but once word gets out, the tube prices jump up.
 
That's is why I think a dac upgrade is more worthwhile. From my dac upgrading, I think going for the gumby would be the most worthwhile upgrade. No need to go much more expensive from my experience. 

 

[tuxbass]

  I think you are right (from my experience) with that type of ranking. However, I do think that tubes make an even smaller relative difference hahaha. probably much more than cables though. the issue is a lot of times, for the price of a matched set of really premium tubes, you can upgrade your headphone or amplifier to the next tier. A lot of times with tubes, it is flavor preferences too I think rather than one being definitely superior. I think it is possible to find a lot of solid cheap gems, but once word gets out, the tube prices jump up.
 
That's is why I think a dac upgrade is more worthwhile. From my dac upgrading, I think going for the gumby would be the most worthwhile upgrade. No need to go much more expensive from my experience. 

Cool, the gumby is what I was thinking too.
As for the tubes, I had them somewhere between the DAC and Cables, something like this:
 
Headphones >> Amp > DAC > Tubes >>>> Cables
 
I agree with your observations on tubes. Being a tube n00b it might not be a worthwhile exercise for me (i might end up spending on the wrong thing )

 

[RCBinTN]

  Very true. This actually made my comparison very hard, since I don't like to hear at volume levels that are too loud. So when I set the ETHERs to the max volume that I can tolerate, it was hard to match the volume on the LCD-3 and still keep it below the levels that are acceptable to me. If that made any sense.
 
I'll give it another shot tonight.

 
One more thought on the A/B comparison (after reading Tyll's recent analysis on InnerFidelity), I have tried to perform A/B comparisons in the past, and usually wound up confused.  The better method, IMO, is to give both A and B a significant amount of listening time...to let your body and especially your brain to fully adjust / appreciate both A and B options.  For example, when I switch immediately from my HD800 to my LCD-X, the X sound dark and unresolving.  Of course, they aren't...it's just that my brain has gotten used to the brighter HD800 sound.  When I switch the other direction, the HD800 sound thin and tinny.  Of course, they aren't.  Just a thought...

 

[deadie]

...For example, when I switch immediately from my HD800 to my LCD-X, the X sound dark and unresolving.  Of course, they aren't...it's just that my brain has gotten used to the brighter HD800 sound.  When I switch the other direction, the HD800 sound thin and tinny.  Of course, they aren't.  Just a thought...

 
My experience exactly matches this with the 800 & X. So much so, I just don't listen to the cans on the same day.  My brain needs to reset and start from scratch, listening and appreciating each on its own absolute merits.
 
Received my MJ2 on Friday, very much enjoying it thus far with stock tubes.  I feed it with a Chord Hugo, sometimes going into my vintage McIntosh preamp for EQ, sometimes straight to MJ2.  Abundant power, impressive realism, nicely black between notes, and sufficiently retains the musicality of the Hugo.    
 
I'm finding I enjoy the LCD-X pairing more, at least in these early days.  The HD-800 still sounds a bit too peaky, shouty.  Injecting the Mc preamp helps, but still doesn't get me the rounder sound / synergy pairing of the GSX-X, Aurelic Taurus, Liquid Gold, or the MHA-100.
 
I don't like the UERM pairing with MJ2.  Too sensitive, abundant tube "whooshing" (low/high gain same whooshing volume, also microphonic) and the sound is just... kinda flat.  But no matter, it's not my IEM amp. 
 
I'm really enjoying the X (balanced WyWire Red) with MJ2, I find myself "stopping multitasking" and just zoning out, uttering a "whoa" here and there with its real / live presentation.  I love the sound of the X straight out of the Hugo and the MJ2 just gives it more live music weight / impact.
 
MJ2 is my return to Schiit amps, I was pretty turned off by Lyr1 - powerful, but flat sound, unrefined.  Went through a few pairs of tubes too.  I shied away from Lyr2 and Mjolnir1, but took the plunge on MJ2 b/c the of helpful / insightful comments in this thread.  
 
I'm kinda now wondering / jonesing for Rag, but am unsure what AQ increments it presents and what more power would necessarily bring to the party.  I'd also be giving up tubes.  I'll probably wait.  We all know Jason's gotta be scheming in his lab on Rag2 -- some monoblock beast, swappable SS and glass tubes...
 

 

[tuxbass]

   
One more thought on the A/B comparison (after reading Tyll's recent analysis on InnerFidelity), I have tried to perform A/B comparisons in the past, and usually wound up confused.  The better method, IMO, is to give both A and B a significant amount of listening time...to let your body and especially your brain to fully adjust / appreciate both A and B options.  For example, when I switch immediately from my HD800 to my LCD-X, the X sound dark and unresolving.  Of course, they aren't...it's just that my brain has gotten used to the brighter HD800 sound.  When I switch the other direction, the HD800 sound thin and tinny.  Of course, they aren't.  Just a thought...

It's funny/interesting you brought up Tyll's article.
I was going to A/B them again last night. But I happened to read Tyll's article before that and I decided to just listen to the ETHER the rest of the night . I might pick the LCD-3 today and see how that goes ...
 
I agree with the A/B comparisons leading to flawed observations. For me it usually ends up being frustrating and makes the whole experience unenjoyable.

 

[chowyeung]

Hi everyone,
Could anyone confirm whether plugging in a headphone on MJ2 would automatically mute the preamp output?
Many thanks in advance.
Cheers

 

[zabzaf]

Hi everyone,
Could anyone confirm whether plugging in a headphone on MJ2 would automatically mute the preamp output?
Many thanks in advance.
Cheers

No it does not mute the preamp outs.

 

[chowyeung]

No it does not mute the preamp outs.

 
Many thanks for your prompt reply! 

 

[Oklahoma]

No it does not mute the preamp outs.

It should I believe. Schiit has said plugging in headphones should mute the preamp outs on their amps. Otherwise it would defeat the purpose of the preamp outs. I use them with my lyr2 and powered monitors and they mute when plugging in headphones, I would hate to have to power off my monitors every time I plug in my headphones so I don't have sound bleed from my speakers and open headphones. If yours doesn't mute the preamp outs I would check with schiit on it.

 

[tuxbass]

It should I believe. Schiit has said plugging in headphones should mute the preamp outs on their amps. Otherwise it would defeat the purpose of the preamp outs. I use them with my lyr2 and powered monitors and they mute when plugging in headphones, I would hate to have to power off my monitors every time I plug in my headphones so I don't have sound bleed from my speakers and open headphones. If yours doesn't mute the preamp outs I would check with schiit on it.

I don't think it mutes the preamp outs. At least it doesn't on mine. I found that annoying too.
I got around that problem by using SYS (although SYS serves more than 1 purpose for me).