[Paladin79]

How would you even get your solder blob to properly adhere to that highly polished, gold-or-whatever plated, convex surface in the first place? And without melting the plastic isolators between them?
Maybe I’m just not good enough with the iron, that’s always a distinct possibility. But getting a good and lasting connection seems impossible to me.

I have done it by carefully cleaning the surface with liquid rosin before any attempt was made at soldering, then I use a long thin pointed soldering iron tip at 800 degrees F. After a few botched attempts you get better at it but you cannot keep the soldering iron tip there very long or the plastic melted. You have the bare wire in a curved shape and I always pre-tinned the wire. This helped hold the curve as well as getting solder adhere to the wire quickly. I finally would tell customers if they could find a proper connector I would have my people build with those, I did not trust sending the cylinder type to customers so I refused to use them. Building for myself is another matter.

 

[Ohno Schiitizen]

I hate Pentaconn, and I hate Type C too .. please forgive me ..

 

[Jason Stoddard]

Some more words on Pentaconn:

1. I really wanted to hate this connector, especially given its single-source nature. (I'm talking about the board side, not the plug side.) On the PCB socket side, there's only one company making them. They are very expensive. Hence the hate. However, they are very solid connectors, and are made to a standard that rivals Neutrik.
2. However, they are still inferior to Neutrik 4-pin connectors for headphones, providing you have the space. Pentaconn makes sense on small gear and with small headphones (IEMs).
3. The plug side is a total morass, and I have no idea of the quality there. We've done some retermination to Pentaconn, and it isn't fun. I also don't like the idea of running stereo through a single interconnect, though that's probably more me than anything else.
4. In summary, don't expect to see Pentaconn except on size-constrained stuff from us. We like standards. We like big bulky reliable connectors. Sorry.

Some more words on USB-C:

1. Early USB-C is much much worse than I thought for durability and reliability, especially so for a connector touted as being much better than USB-micro, etc.
2. Now that we've had a lot more experience with these connectors, we've settled on a couple of very very reliable models, one vertical and one horizontal, both entirely thru-hole, both with large lugs that go through the board and provide a strong mechanical connection, and a specified handling routine to eliminate the possibility of solder/flux vapor on the tiny pins. Now we have reliability, but yes, this was a much bigger pain in the rear end than I expected.
3. Both of those above connectors are only USB 2.0 rated--they do not have the gigaspeed pairs used in faster USB-C connections. This is fine; there is no USB Audio Class 3 standard, audio doesn't run at these speeds.
4. Although I'm sure Apple will handle this better than pretty much anyone, I know why they resisted USB-C on their phones for so long.

 

[jonathan c]

I hate Pentaconn, and I hate Type C too .. please forgive me ..

… in nomine patris …

 

[Ohno Schiitizen]

@Jason Stoddard ,
Is the Midgard spec. page only available after Socal Canjam?

 

[adias]

Some more words on Pentaconn:

1. I really wanted to hate this connector, especially given its single-source nature. (I'm talking about the board side, not the plug side.) On the PCB socket side, there's only one company making them. They are very expensive. Hence the hate. However, they are very solid connectors, and are made to a standard that rivals Neutrik.
2. However, they are still inferior to Neutrik 4-pin connectors for headphones, providing you have the space. Pentaconn makes sense on small gear and with small headphones (IEMs).
3. The plug side is a total morass, and I have no idea of the quality there. We've done some retermination to Pentaconn, and it isn't fun. I also don't like the idea of running stereo through a single interconnect, though that's probably more me than anything else.
4. In summary, don't expect to see Pentaconn except on size-constrained stuff from us. We like standards. We like big bulky reliable connectors. Sorry.

Some more words on USB-C:

1. Early USB-C is much much worse than I thought for durability and reliability, especially so for a connector touted as being much better than USB-micro, etc.
2. Now that we've had a lot more experience with these connectors, we've settled on a couple of very very reliable models, one vertical and one horizontal, both entirely thru-hole, both with large lugs that go through the board and provide a strong mechanical connection, and a specified handling routine to eliminate the possibility of solder/flux vapor on the tiny pins. Now we have reliability, but yes, this was a much bigger pain in the rear end than I expected.
3. Both of those above connectors are only USB 2.0 rated--they do not have the gigaspeed pairs used in faster USB-C connections. This is fine; there is no USB Audio Class 3 standard, audio doesn't run at these speeds.
4. Although I'm sure Apple will handle this better than pretty much anyone, I know why they resisted USB-C on their phones for so long.

So, @Jason Stoddard : Does that mean that we will soon see USB-c ports on Bifrost and Yggy (LIM, OG, MIM)?

 

[Jason Stoddard]

@Jason Stoddard ,
Is the Midgard spec. page only available after Socal Canjam?

Midgard and Skoll will go up after we have photography, most likely end of next week. Ish.

So, @Jason Stoddard : Does that mean that we will soon see USB-c ports on Bifrost and Yggy (LIM, OG, MIM)?

No, that's why you may never see them on Bifrost and Yggy and other large units that have plenty of space for proper USB-B connectors.

There are days when, if you paid me $5, I'd figure out how to get them off of everything. (But that would be difficult...eeek Hel and Fulla.)

 

[Balthazar B]

Extra outputs on Freya: physics says no, because this is full. Or I guess we could go all Pentaconn. Those are tiny. Also not a standard thing, also stereo output. Still, not a great answer here without going to a much larger chassis.

Well, between Pentaconn and BFX (Big Fat XLR) are miniaturized XLR connectors like these, from a Neutrik subsidiary:
https://www.rean-connectors.com/en/rean/products/indoor/xlr-connectors/tiny-xlr

Hart Cable uses mini-XLR as a standard interface on their outstanding headphone cables, and it works flawlessly in my experience. Of course, the tradeoff is that this is a more unusual solution, but if the goal is to solve a problem where there are hard constraints, could be an approach that works.

 

[Jason Stoddard]

Well, between Pentaconn and BFX (Big Fat XLR) are miniaturized XLR connectors like these, from a Neutrik subsidiary:
https://www.rean-connectors.com/en/rean/products/indoor/xlr-connectors/tiny-xlr

Hart Cable uses mini-XLR as a standard interface on their outstanding headphone cables, and work flawlessly in my experience. Of course, the tradeoff is that this is a more unusual solution, but if the goal is to solve a problem where there are hard constraints, could be an approach that works.

Unfortunately no PCB mount options. That's 100% required for any connector we use, except speaker binding posts. I'm not gonna have an army of people hand-soldering stuff; the binding posts are bad enough, and something I will probably address at one point.

Oh and holy moly no female sockets at all? Weird connector. Probably well made. But not for us.

 

[Balthazar B]

Unfortunately no PCB mount options. That's 100% required for any connector we use, except speaker binding posts. I'm not gonna have an army of people hand-soldering stuff; the binding posts are bad enough, and something I will probably address at one point.

Oh and holy moly no female sockets at all? Weird connector. Probably well made. But not for us.

So obviously I have basically no knowledge of PCB manufacturing, but are SMD/SMT parts what you'd need?

 

[Jason Stoddard]

So obviously I have basically no knowledge of PCB manufacturing, but are SMD/SMT parts what you'd need?

Ah, Switchcraft makes them too. BUT OMG THE PRICES! That's 10x the price of a real Neutrik XLR. Also still no female. Never gonna happen for us.

 

[adias]

...

No, that's why you may never see them on Bifrost and Yggy and other large units that have plenty of space for proper USB-B connectors.

There are days when, if you paid me $5, I'd figure out how to get them off of everything. (But that would be difficult...eeek Hel and Fulla.)

@Jason Stoddard: What's puzzling to me is that you put USB-c on Urd a product in Schiit's top tier line. Why not USB-b there?

 

[Jason Stoddard]

@Jason Stoddard: What's puzzling to me is that you put USB-c on Urd a product in Schiit's top tier line. Why not USB-b there?

Minds change based on evidence. Life is not 100% consistent or logical.

 

[roadcykler]

I grew up in Hannibal MO and that was always my argument.

I think those that pronounce it "Missourah" do so to sound like it's unique. I lived about 90 minutes northeast of Hannibal for a few years but only drove through there on the way to see a Cubs game in St Louis.

 

[roadcykler]

4. Although I'm sure Apple will handle this better than pretty much anyone, I know why they resisted USB-C on their phones for so long.

So they could charge a ridiculous amount for a proprietary connection?