[audionics]

Normally Shiit answers questions within a few hours. So not getting an answer is an exception.

 

[audionics]

Any listening impressions of the Saga+ would be welcome.

 

[dieslemat]

Why is that weird? You got what you paid/ordered for?

I actually find it weird for someone to request to remove something and get a lower price. What’s next? Someone asking for Schiit to not ship the power cable and a reduced price because they have their own ?

 

[judson_w]

Actually is does not: Most relays are suitable for 230V AC anyway.
We switch that voltage all the time in Europe.
The Saga+ has 200V DC anode voltage.

I admit I am still working on building up my electrical engineering understanding, but I look at this comment from Jason about turning off the tubes:

Aaaaanndd...after much pain and suffering, we figured out how to turn the tubes on only when needed. This is one of those things that should have been simple. The tubes are run from a completely separate transformer on Freya. Turn off the AC input to the transformer when it’s not being used and you’re golden, right?

Well, uh, no. Turn off the AC to the tubes, and they crap out a whole metric ass-ton of DC. Including through the grids. Turn them on again, and the same thing happens.

(People who know tubes are cringing right now.)

So, in order to safely turn on and off the tubes, we had to add a hard mute to the output, and relays that unhook the grid connection as well, as well as firmware that carefully times the turn-on and turn-off sequencing. A seemingly trivial thing turned into a big fight.

You may have a better understanding of this than me, but it seems they tried simple, found issues with it, and their work around was a bit more involved.

 

[jnak00]

I actually find it weird for someone to request to remove something and get a lower price. What’s next? Someone asking for Schiit to not ship the power cable and a reduced price because they have their own ?

I could see that. Those of us with a Cthulu may not need the wall wart. I'm not saying Schiit should do that, just that it's not such a crazy suggestion.

 

[Robert Padgett]

Because many vintage tubes are almost priceless as the cannot be replaced easily.
Leaving them on for 5000h and they are gone. At least they are not crisp anymore.
As the Saga+ is meant to stay on that would mean in 7 months.
If the Saga+ is not left on maybe a year.
Burning off a rare $300 vintage tube within a year for nothing is a ridiculous thing to do.

I am sorry that you feel this way.
As others have pointed out, typically a $300 tube on a $299 preamplifier seems rather ridiculous, in and of itself.
My suggestion would be Vali 2 for $149. It is also a tube hybrid, and appears, at least to my ears, to showcase the differences between tubes--if that is the objective.

As I explained, Jason said it was a difficult implementation, but anything is possible with a boutique tube amplifier builder whose objectives are different than building $300 preamplifiers.
Personally, I think there is much hype about rare vintage tubes, like the Melz 1578--which many say is the best sounding tube in that class-- but alas, they only pay $100 each for those.

I am a Schiit customer because they build Cheap gear, so it should not surprise that I would rather have a matched pair of new production tubes, which sell for $10 each, and if they burn out in 7 months, I will just buy another set.
Of the rare and expensive tubes I have heard, I quite frankly think the differences are quite nuanced and doubt if they could be picked out from brand new production tubes in a blind test. YMMV

Oh, BTW, Bob Backert built a custom pre-amp for my friend, in which he installed a generic German 12AU7. That Pre-amp has been powered up and operational 24/7/365 for the past seven years, (61,320 hours approximately) and I finally convinced him to buy a replacement tube, should the original finally die. It still sounded very sweet when I reviewed his $200,000 system.

You might contact him about a preamplifier that would better serve your needs. http://backertlabs.com/about-us/

 

[Ableza]

Asking a company to ship custom versions of something "leaving out" included components with the expectation of lowered price is, well, a bit pie in the sky if you ask me. If it was an option they wanted to offer I suspect they would. Asking for something special is not likely to happen and would cost Schiit more to provide. So buy the gear and if you decide not to use part of what comes with it, put it aside for later in case you need it. I have a whole basket full of unused remote controls because I prefer universals, and I have a stash of OEM tubes because I rolled to something else... it's called just a normal part of this hobby.

 

[Robert Padgett]

I could see that. Those of us with a Cthulu may not need the wall wart. I'm not saying Schiit should do that, just that it's not such a crazy suggestion.

The wall wort power supplies that come with Schiit gear is seemingly the only part imported from Asia. I bet that Jason buys them very cheap, and by the container full. It would probably be more trouble to remove the wall wort, and reduce your invoice by 25 cents, meaning increased labor cost would offset the savings of them not shipping you one of the least expensive items on the bill of materials. (Full disclosure--I have no idea what a wall wort, bought by the shipping container from China costs, but if an American company decided to produce wall wort which were better and even close to reasonable, Schiit would have included them instead...)

 

[Mike-WI]

That little FiiO A1 sounds good (that product is discontinued now).
I don't have the Rag back yet, so can't do A/B comparisons.
And when I do my office setup will likely make it difficult to say a lot.
It's just amazing to me when something so little and cheap can sound good.

Caveats are that it is low volume, near field, background music at work with Spotify (usually) as a source.
Qobuz often finicky with firewall and presumably bandwidth throttling.
Also going through the Yggy.

I was out of town and finally got back to work where my repaired Ragnarok was delivered.
They replaced the main board and ribbon cables.

I was listening to my little FiiO A1 interim setup until I could pull out the XLR cables for re-integrating the Ragnarok.
I didn't do a A/B testing or sound level match, but I could tell the Rag sounded much better (also using XLR instead of SE through Magni).
Highs more crips, lows full and authoritative.
I am still impressed by that little FiiO A1 desktop amp, but it is not a Ragnarok.

I thought (and am thinking) about a Freya+ and amps, but may be too much for a desk setup to be reasonable.

 

[belgiangenius]

Why is that weird? You got what you paid/ordered for?

That attitude can be a very long and narrow tunnel.

 

[dieslemat]

That attitude can be a very long and narrow tunnel.

How so?

 

[belgiangenius]

How so?

Exactly.

 

[33na3rd]

I can’t answer your question, but I have a pair of ACAs with a Freya S preamp and the combination sounds great. The treble seems a little bright, but I am adjusting to the change from a very warm vintage Marantz.
And I have Klipsch Fortes with horn tweeters.

I suspect you will need very sensitive speakers running an ACA in SE / stereo fed by a Saga.

Good luck with your build!

How is your Freya S coming along, any more impressions that you can share with us?

 

[Derrick Swart]

Asking a company to ship custom versions of something "leaving out" included components with the expectation of lowered price is, well, a bit pie in the sky if you ask me. If it was an option they wanted to offer I suspect they would. Asking for something special is not likely to happen and would cost Schiit more to provide. So buy the gear and if you decide not to use part of what comes with it, put it aside for later in case you need it. I have a whole basket full of unused remote controls because I prefer universals, and I have a stash of OEM tubes because I rolled to something else... it's called just a normal part of this hobby.

I sincerely wanted to know why it was weird in the genius mind.
I see it like this: I pay and click for something with tubes and after I am asking if the tubes can be left out and the price reduced ... So I pay for 1KG of oranges and after I request to take out 200 grams and refund me. Most likely there is no response from the orange seller just a jaw dropping face scene. Ask beforehand and you know what you are up to, i'd say.

 

[porchwizard]

Actually is does not: Most relays are suitable for 230V AC anyway.
We switch that voltage all the time in Europe.
The Saga+ has 200V DC anode voltage.

I don't know if it's a a factor in switching tubes off (@Jason Stoddard didn't mention it) but switching high voltage DC (under load at least) is trickier than AC as it has a strong tendency to create and maintain an arc. Special switches are required to break / prevent the arc. With AC the arc naturally breaks at the null crossing.