[KLJTech]

   
Heck no.  Here I am before the upgrade - didn't even need a soldering iron this way!
 

 

...I've seen a friends that should know better upgrading their computers while sitting on the floor in the middle of a carpeted room. I've never upgraded a video card or memory in a PC without a grounding strap while standing on non-carpeted floors and I'd think that doing these upgrades on the DAC's would require just as much caution. If/when Schiit does another upgrade for the Gungnir I'll install it myself yet it sounds like some have had a little trouble here and there...not sure if its just getting the LED's lined up or not. 

 

[Ableza]

  Acrylic? EEEEK!
 
How about a nice angora sweater to add to the mix?

 Yep, and I'm pretty sure good old acrylic is what zapped the processors.  Maybe if the assembler had been wearing a sweater he would have felt the jolt... would have served him right. 

 

[madwolfa]

When I was a kid, I was playing a game on my DIY Sinclair ZX Spectrum... which had no case at that time, and just lied in front of me as naked PCB with all wires and stuff sticking out of it all over the table.
Meanwhile my grandma was doing some house keeping... So she would just get the PCB (with all the guts on it) with her bare hand, lift it and swipe dust under it and put it back on the table.
 
My face at the time: 

.

 

[AndreYew]

The insidious thing about ESD damage is that it's cumulative and not always initially fatal. Instead the device becomes flakey, which is the worst kind of fault to have because it's not an easily reproducible failure. I'd rather have something that fails immediately than something that flakes out every so often.
 
The ESD strike literally blows out physical chunks of the microcircuit, even the ones with protection, so many will still function for a while, somewhat reliably, until there's too much damage.

 

[KLJTech]

   Yep, and I'm pretty sure good old acrylic is what zapped the processors.  Maybe if the assembler had been wearing a sweater he would have felt the jolt... would have served him right. 

 
See, that's why I do all of my electronic upgrades in the bathtub. Not only does the warm water relax me and make my hands more steady but the Mr. Bubble cuts down on static charges flying form my finger tips. 

 

[Jason Stoddard]

  The insidious thing about ESD damage is that it's cumulative and not always initially fatal. Instead the device becomes flakey, which is the worst kind of fault to have because it's not an easily reproducible failure. I'd rather have something that fails immediately than something that flakes out every so often.
 
The ESD strike literally blows out physical chunks of the microcircuit, even the ones with protection, so many will still function for a while, somewhat reliably, until there's too much damage.

 
Yep. Output MOSFETs are famous for "kinda not quite working" if they're slightly overvoltaged...but over time, the hole in the gate develops into a big problem. One reason I am very paranoid about them.

 

[Ableza]

And creeping damage is why I'm taking five known good units with me tomorrow, not just two. 

 

[Ableza]

ANYWAY... back to the Schiit we should be discussing, Jason I think your decision to make Bitfrost upgradable was outstanding.  Will Yggdrasil be modular in the same way?

 

[Jason Stoddard]

  ANYWAY... back to the Schiit we should be discussing, Jason I think your decision to make Bitfrost upgradable was outstanding.  Will Yggdrasil be modular in the same way?

Even more so: separate upgradable input board, USB board, DSP board, and DAC/Analog boards. The motherboard is nothing but a power supply (a damn big one, with huge choke-input, shunt-regulated rails for the analog section.)

 

[Ableza]

  Even more so: separate upgradable input board, USB board, DSP board, and DAC/Analog boards. The motherboard is nothing but a power supply (a damn big one, with huge choke-input, shunt-regulated rails for the analog section.)

 
Outstanding.  And doing that without needing a ATX-size enclosure! 
 
You may not be that far along yet, but has thought been given to firmware updates, or will that not be necessary?  (After reading about Ragnarok, they could be applicable there too perhaps.)  We've started including a mini-USB connector on everything just in case firmware needs a flash somewhere down the line...

 

[Jason Stoddard]

   
Outstanding.  And doing that without needing a ATX-size enclosure! 
 
You may not be that far along yet, but has thought been given to firmware updates, or will that not be necessary?  (After reading about Ragnarok, they could be applicable there too perhaps.)  We've started including a mini-USB connector on everything just in case firmware needs a flash somewhere down the line...

 
The basic control system is pretty simple-minded (buttons, etc...) Another micro is a single-task unit (analyzing input quality and sample/bit depth for the Adapticlock system.) Neither should need updating. The big DSP processors are also pretty much set in stone...the long way of saying that we shouldn't need updating capability, unless something changes on the DSP board or the input board--as in, there's a future upgrade. And the firmware for Bifrost/Gungnir has never been changed.
 
The problem with Ragnarok was the complexity. It sounds simple, measuring quiescent current and DC offset...but it's actually a really complicated process when you have music running through it, and you have to deal with variable MOSFETs, etc...one of the reasons we're doing a beta. It should be stable by now, but...

 

[Ableza]

   
The basic control system is pretty simple-minded (buttons, etc...) Another micro is a single-task unit (analyzing input quality and sample/bit depth for the Adapticlock system.) Neither should need updating. The big DSP processors are also pretty much set in stone...the long way of saying that we shouldn't need updating capability, unless something changes on the DSP board or the input board--as in, there's a future upgrade. And the firmware for Bifrost/Gungnir has never been changed.
 
The problem with Ragnarok was the complexity. It sounds simple, measuring quiescent current and DC offset...but it's actually a really complicated process when you have music running through it, and you have to deal with variable MOSFETs, etc...one of the reasons we're doing a beta. It should be stable by now, but...

Gotcha.  And trust me, I know that what you've done with Ragnarok is anything but simple, and I hope you've filed for a copyright and perhaps a patent on the algorithms your team has created.

 

[Finjima]

Sounds like your thinking on implementing a USB so you can have the user update his firm ware with out having to send it back to you on something so complex its a must have, plus its new tech, nothing like your other products. if you wasn't I'd really think about it. 

 

[marcoarment]

Copyright doesn't meaningfully apply (unless someone actually copied the exact firmware image from the Rag), but I'd be curious to hear Jason's stance on patents.
 
In my world (software), filing for a patent is a great way to spend $40,000+ not to keep others from doing the same thing, but to give you the opportunity to be a huge dick to them to force them to pay arbitrary royalties, and if they don't, to spend $500,000+ more to sue them and maybe win, while you ignore the rest of your business and fall so far behind the competition that they figure out a way around your patent and release something better.
 
Maybe it's different for electronics.

 

[Ableza]

My main job is as the IP officer for my company.  Copyright is applicable for software as it is effectively published when the product is released, and patents are the only real way to protect yourself internationally.  Anyone who creates software (or firmware, which is software) should file for Copyright protection.  Patents are harder to get but have more teeth...