[AudioBear]

I wasn't going to say anything because I don't own Gungnir and I have never heard one playing but I wondered about that comment.  I have been researching the unit and plan to buy one soon.  Having read all the reviews and user comments I noticed a distinct trend in a few selected recent comments here that Gungnir is "dark."  This view did not appear in earlier reviews.  I was going to ask "which is it?"
 
I did notice that in the reviews listed on the Schiit website Kevin O'brien in YourFinalSystem does comment that the Gungnir is "a slightly darker and more laid back than the minimax plus"  Elsewhere in the review Kevin says he can't tell the difference between the two DACs.  He highly recommends Gungnir as the new king of affordable DACs.
 
I would like to see this explained.  I guess it's always fair to say any piece of equipment is dark depending on what you compare it to.  

 

[davidvanderbilt]

I think it just boils down to which equipment you are using and what you are listening to. I'm going to try my friends he-500/emotiva setup tomorrow and see how I like it.

 

[Solude]

 
I would like to see this explained.

 
As simple as... what else is in the chain.  The Gungnir/Mjolnir combination is pretty dead neutral.  The Gungnir/GS-X mk2 is dark.  The PWD2/Mjolnir is bright.  The PWD2/GS-X mk2 is dead neutral.  Take from that what you will

 

[AudioBear]

Point taken and it was what I hoped to hear.

 

[DSNORD]

   
As simple as... what else is in the chain.  The Gungnir/Mjolnir combination is pretty dead neutral.  The Gungnir/GS-X mk2 is dark.  The PWD2/Mjolnir is bright.  The PWD2/GS-X mk2 is dead neutral.  Take from that what you will

So the math looks like this:
 
Gungnir = Neutral
Mjolnir = Neutral
PWD = Bright
GS-X = Dark
 
So paraphrasing an earlier poster, I too "have no desire to add defective equipment to neutralize the other defective equipment in my system."
 
As an EXTREMELY happy G/M stack owner, it just seems natural to me that everything in the chain should add ZERO flavor to the sauce when all I want is the music AS RECORDED, any warts and all.
 
DSN

 

[Solude]

So the math looks like this:
 
Gungnir = Neutral
Mjolnir = Neutral
PWD = Bright
GS-X = Dark

 
Except no one is going to agree that the PWD2 is bright, most believe it is tilted towards warmth and likewise very few are going to hear the GS-X mk2 and think dark.
 
Gungnir is dark
Mjolnir is bright

 

[KLJTech]

In my home system (Parasound A21 & Magnepan 1.7) and office system (A23 & B&W 805N/CDM 1NT, Velodyne sub) the Gungnir Gen2 USB does not sound "dark" at all..nor does it sound bright. Obviously opinions will vary and while we're all using different gear with the Gungnir I've never heard it sound anything but clean/neutral, transparent and dynamic. I find the way many recordings nowadays are being mastered far more concerning than the components I'm using, especially the Gungnir. Of course, if you feel that the Gungnir sounds dark or bright in your setup it's easy enough to simply use a different DAC. 

 

[Solude]

In comparison to what though?  Do you think the Gungnir has less bass presence than say your previous Benchmark DAC1?
 
I should add... I don't consider the tonal balance of the Gungnir to be a bad thing.  It's performance in other metrics are awesome, easily going toe to toe with the PWD2.  Just a matter of whether you need/want the tonal balance shifted one way or the other.  Putting it to numbers the PWD2/GS-X mk2 and Gungnir/Mjolnir share a tonal balance and the G/M combo is ~90% of the P/G for WAY LESS $ =)

 

[KLJTech]

In my system, the DAC1 had good bass impact but I wasn't too fond of the highs, I prefer the Gungnir. In some else's system, with their gear who knows? I listen to my HE-500's several times a week, but most of my listening is through speakers. The room itself can have a large effect on sound too, but I've yet to hear either system sound "dark" when fronted by the Gungnir. What's important is what you're hearing in your setup, if yours sound dark with the Gungnir then I'd certainly try another DAC. 
 
I do have very good bass impact/presence with the Gungnir. 

 

[Solude]

Dark might be too extreme.  Warm, smooth, natural also works.  Point being it isn't bright or harsh.  People tend to think of dark as more than what it is... a tonal shift towards bass.  Nothing to do with detail or attack.  Just the warmer side of warm.

 

[AudioBear]

The discussion is pointing toward an rationale for why many of us need to buy and try new equipment frequently.  

 
As a total non-expert and noob to DACs, I have a question about something that I have never understood.  Almost all the DACs mentioned here have flat frequency response, very low distortion and harmonics, and on paper measure identically (or at least beyond the resolution of human hearing to distinguish differences) on almost all parameters .  Yet careful listeners can discern differences and have distinct preferences.  Why is that?  Is there something that engineers are not measuring that makes one sound warm and the other harsh?  It's for sure that you can't just go by the numbers.
 
I'm not sure I want an answer because as long as I can't tell with numbers what something sounds like I can just keep upgrading and swapping into new equipment.

 

[conquerator2]

It is certainly dark compared to most Sabre implementations, which are on the brighter side IMO.
What is better? That I leave to the others to decide. I am a bit torn myself...
The rest of the chain obviously matters too...
All things being equal, the Gung is certainly not bright nor is it harsh. And the bass is excellent. I doubt anyone would argue these points.

 

[Liu Junyuan]

It is certainly dark compared to most Sabre implementations, which are on the brighter side IMO.
What is better? That I leave to the others to decide. I am a bit torn myself...
The rest of the chain obviously matters too...
All things being equal, the Gung is certainly not bright nor is it harsh. And the bass is excellent. I doubt anyone would argue these points.

Yes, and it also has a natural tone.

 

[KLJTech]

I would never claim to be an expert, I'm simply someone that is addicted to music and have been buying components and speakers to play said music on since the mid-80's. In my opinion, most (not all) of your better DAC's and amps have gotten pretty damn good, so unless you are very aware of how your system sounds, (and you're not making changes to it all the time) you may not even be able to tell the difference between two pretty good DAC's. With a firm grasp on how your setup sounds and with recordings you're very familiar with, it's easier to pick up what one DAC is doing when compared to another. It's very seldom (almost never) a night and day type of difference and "a difference" isn't always for the better. 
 
As far as measurements go, I not so sure that we always know what to measure or how to measure it, beyond the obvious, a flat frequency response. I think the best thing to do is, make a short list of components to audition, based on as much information as possible, from reviewers you've already found to have tastes that are similar to yours. Once you have your system together and you're happy with the results then you should try like Hell to forget about the gear and simply focus on enjoying your music. 
 
It's very easy and often a lot of fun to get caught in the trap of constantly "upgrading" your gear, but if you're not careful you'll end up chasing the rabbit down the hole and forgetting what this was all about in the first place...music. 
 
<sorry for all the typos>

 

[conquerator2]

Yeah, except when you either get something that supposedly sounds like X, but actually sounds like Y a bit or actually end up missing the X characteristic that the Y won't give you... If there's a perfectly synergetic DAC/amp/HP system, I sure hope I will find mine for myself
Though I admit that it is fairly close now and so it was before as well... Just not exactly the pinnacle I hoped it'd reach.