[AstronomerXI]

VERY subjective! I found the stock tubes such a disappointment that I wondered if I made a mistake in getting the Freya N. Then on the Schiit Happened thread some tube suggestions were made, and once the Amperex tubes arrived then augmented by the Reflectors, audio nirvana struck.

I have a pair of these 1956 UK Brimars: https://www.langrex.co.uk/products/12at7-cv455-kb-fb-brimar-rare-triple-mica-1956-nos-valve-tube/ + adapters on order. They were highly recommended by a fellow forum member who says they're prized and sought-after by tube aficionados. When I ordered a few days ago there were 200 or so available. Now they're down to 19 as of Aug 3 at 6:45 PM ET.

...and this morning, there are 291 in stock. If I lie what I hear when mine arrive, I'll buy another set as spares.

 

[AstronomerXI]

Yes VERY subjective.
Being a long, long time audio guy....from the 60's when tubes were everywhere...no one really thought that they were special....its what was in lots of stuff...No "NOS" nomenclature...Just go to the local drugstore that had a tube tester "machine" to test your tubes from your TV or radio...LOL...and open up the area in the lower part to pick out a new tube....then home plug in and watch or listen!! Amazing to see all the NOS hysteria at times for the old stuff thats still new, kinda of.

Over at bottlehead, Doc, and even Schiit Jason have always said "its the circuit...." the magic is in the circuit..but that doesnt stop us one bit in trying to find our audio nirvana
in old stuff often older that you are!. Nostalgic, for a world long past !

Having hundreds of tubes and listening to many variations in lots of gear its often straining to hear real world differences. But we humans are strange animals and our brains, our moods, and the quality of the recordings all influence our impressions on how great or how disappointing a new old tube is...

That said I too love playing with them and often swear there are differences...but if I dont listen for several days and turn on the stuff most tubes in my gear all sound really decent..

YMMV!
Alex

In my case, nostalgic for a world I didn't experience! I was born in '66 and I don't recall any tubed electronics in the house when growing up, though I'm sure the radios and TV etc. likely had them.

Certainly the difference between the stock tubes that came with my Freya N and the Amperex was night and day, as compared to the difference between the differential buffer mode and tube mode with stock tubes, which was not much other than the 12db gain of the tube stage. The difference between the Amperex pair and the Raytheon's are less stark than the stock vs Amperex, but there is a tonal difference, each imparting something different to the music. I'm very sure a part of it is my own hearing. I have diminished hearing in my left ear and some specific frequency loss on top of normal loss due to age. Harmonics in frequencies where my hearing is strong will certainly "resonate" with me personally, particularly in how they alter guitar tone, as well as depth and/or width of the soundstage.

I may have mentioned this in some other post, but a good friend of mine is a trained classical musician who has performed and toured professionally as well as taught music at the university level. He tried several of my headphones and compared the sound in in passive, differential buffer, and tube modes. Hifiman Sundaras were his choice of phones (mine as well. Much better than my HD 650s in this chain, as well as the Thieaudio Ghost - I prefer the latter two with my Nitsch Piety), and he said the sound via differential buffer mode was like being in the audience a few rows back, as was passive mode. With the Amperex tubes, it sounded like he was on the stage with the musicians. I agree that the circuit is key. For me it's the combination of all elements in the chain - source, DAC, preamp, tubes, EQ (Lokius, in my case), phones, and an individual's hearing and music preferences. If they all come together, it's magical.

 

[TimTam]

I get the same quiet noise -- inaudible from listening position but audible if I stand next to the speaker. I get this with every tube amp I've tried though. If you have any dimmable lights in the house, try turning those off. https://eldfall-chronicles.com/product/slayer-dragoon/ Every tube amp I own increases hum as I dim lights. https://sharpedgeshop.com/collections/bunka-knives-multi-purpose You could also try an isolation transformer -- I generally use one for tube amps with good success.

Ah, the joys of dealing with tube amps! It seems like you've got a good handle on troubleshooting the hum issue. Dimmable lights can indeed introduce electrical noise, especially in tube amps. Using an isolation transformer is a smart move to mitigate such problems.
Tube amps can be sensitive creatures, but the warm and rich sound they produce makes it all worth it. Happy tinkering and may your music always be free of unwanted hum!

 

[adydula]

Tubes, ac hum..all part of the game !

 

[Borat]

I may have mentioned this in some other post, but a good friend of mine is a trained classical musician who has performed and toured professionally as well as taught music at the university level. He tried several of my headphones and compared the sound in in passive, differential buffer, and tube modes. Hifiman Sundaras were his choice of phones (mine as well. Much better than my HD 650s in this chain, as well as the Thieaudio Ghost - I prefer the latter two with my Nitsch Piety), and he said the sound via differential buffer mode was like being in the audience a few rows back, as was passive mode. With the Amperex tubes, it sounded like he was on the stage with the musicians.

I'm interested how people incorporate the Freya pre-amp into their headphone listening chain.

What is your setup when listening to headphones through the Freya? Are you altering the gain by using the Freya's volume control or the headphone amp's volume control?

I use the Freya N primarily for my 2-channel speaker setup where I use it as a pre-amp going RCA out to my Denon PMA-2000IVR as a power amp only (bypassing the pre-stage).

But whenever I want to listen to headphones, I put the Freya N in passive mode and set the volume to the max, which is connected using the XLR out to my Flux FA-12 Class A balanced headphone amp. I use the volume control on my headphone amp only.

I personally do not engage the solid state or tube buffer of the Freya N when listening through headphones. Feels like a "too many cooks in the kitchen" situation for me

Do other people feel that way? Are other people using their Freyas like I am?

 

[adydula]

I'm interested how people incorporate the Freya pre-amp into their headphone listening chain.

What is your setup when listening to headphones through the Freya? Are you altering the gain by using the Freya's volume control or the headphone amp's volume control?

I use the Freya N primarily for my 2-channel speaker setup where I use it as a pre-amp going RCA out to my Denon PMA-2000IVR as a power amp only (bypassing the pre-stage).

But whenever I want to listen to headphones, I put the Freya N in passive mode and set the volume to the max, which is connected using the XLR out to my Flux FA-12 Class A balanced headphone amp. I use the volume control on my headphone amp only.

I personally do not engage the solid state or tube buffer of the Freya N when listening through headphones. Feels like a "too many cooks in the kitchen" situation for me

Do other people feel that way? Are other people using their Freyas like I am?

Gosh, I always take the dacs output directly into an amp with volume control...which really means there is a pre-amp of sorts in it.
IMO to add another cook in the kitchen as you point out IMO is not necessarily a good thing...
You can do this. But for me its a well not a great idea...

Most headphone amps have a volume control.
Most 2 ch stereo amps do not, hence the preamp and multiple inputs.

Comes down to what these things are designed for...
Reminds me of folks that want to just plug tubes in a circuit that have the same number of pins but have no earthly idea of what the tube
is designed for...

YMMV...

 

[mystaiced]

I use my freya as preamp to an integrated amp that has a headphone jack. The volume control on amp isn’t the best, so I leave it in fixed gain mode and control the volume with the freya N. And whenever I use the headphones, I engage the tube buffer for music. But leave it in passive mode for television or movies. And without headphones, just in the 2 channel, I’ll use passive mode for non-critical listening, but engage the tubes when I really have time to sit down and listen.

 

[AstronomerXI]

My chain is M1 Mac Mini->S.M.S.L M300SE DAC->Lokius->Freya N->Asgard 3->Headphones, primarily Hifiman Sundara. A Schiit DAC will replace the current one some time relatively soon.

I primarily listen with the tubes engaged, though for some modern productions (with too much loudness engineered in, electronic music on the rare times I listen to it) I'll use the buffer stage. Volume on the DAC is usually full (though sometimes slightly dialed back) as is generally the Freya. I usually modify the volume on the amp only because it's handy to my chair. Occasionally I'll use the remote on the Freya, particularly on cold days in Winter when I open the curtains and pull my chair over to face the SW-facing windows and take in some sunlight. Then I'll crank the volume on the amp and use the Freya's remote to adjust volume to comfortable levels. All component connections are XLR except the last connection to the amp and the Mac to the DAC..

 

[Borat]

Gosh, I always take the dacs output directly into an amp with volume control...which really means there is a pre-amp of sorts in it.
IMO to add another cook in the kitchen as you point out IMO is not necessarily a good thing...
You can do this. But for me its a well not a great idea...

Most headphone amps have a volume control.
Most 2 ch stereo amps do not, hence the preamp and multiple inputs.

Comes down to what these things are designed for...
Reminds me of folks that want to just plug tubes in a circuit that have the same number of pins but have no earthly idea of what the tube
is designed for...

YMMV...

Right, which is why I presented the question.

Having a separate pre-amp like a Freya is not a product someone who only listens to headphones would generally have. I primarily listen to speakers, which is why I have one, but I also like to listen to headphones on occasion and I share my sources (DAC and CD player in both speaker and headphone setups) so I was curious how people are using their Freyas that have them in headphone systems.

 

[Smoothstereo]

I use my Freya N exclusively on headphone setup. Here is my chain: Android phone using USB Audio Player Pro app to upsample wav files to 352.8 khz going into Denafrips Pontus 2 dac in NOS mode via USB cable, from DAC is XLR out to Freya N in tube mode, then XLR out to Jotunheim 2 , feeding XLR out to Arya v2 hp. I set volume knob on Freya N virtually all the way open (maybe one or two clicks left) and control volume via Jotunheim2 hp amp.

So basically i am using the Freya N as a tuber buffer in the chain with very good results. It's the best I have heard in my headphone rig after years of tinkering with it.

I will be adding a DDC in between the Android phone and Pontus 2 dac soon. So yes, another cook in the kitchen, but if you connect them with quality cables and plugged into a power conditioner, I personally don't feel there is any degradation to the sound, quite the opposite. But as with most things audio, YMMV.

 

[adydula]

We called this "double-amping" back in the day and was mostly a no-no due to voltage and impedance mis-match potential.
But again its your stuff and fun to try as long as you know what your doing...adding stuff can influence the output for sure.

Basic pre-amps were design again for multiple input switching convenience, low voltage phono cartridge amplification (millivolts to something an amp can use without distortion at low voltage levels), volume control due to most amps not having volume control circuitry.

Adding stuff adds to the overall "Johnson" noise.

For me its always been the least amount of stuff in the chain. Simple. Never been a add equalization software or hardware guy. Dont like tone controls too.

Totally understand trying to make stuff sound better with all these idiosyncrasies is fine...but I take the path of well buying a set of headphones that have the capabilities
that I like and dont need the "extra" help from several devices. Ditto with 2 ch stereo speakers.

The only adjustments other than amplitude I play with is room acoustics for speakers...positioning in a room can affect the sound bigtime. A passive adjustment.
With headphones its the type/brand that has differing earcup design and pads.

So I spend a lot of time looking for very well recorded stuff rather than tweaking knobs etc to make something that is not from the original source.

The old "garbage in garbage out"...

But hey...enjoy the music and share the results! Interesting on how many have included a pre-amp in their chain...if it works for you great!

 

[kumar402]

Forget double amping....I'm running tube pre to my EC ZDS which is an OTL. It sounds dirty and wrong but I'm addicted to sound and staging I get out of this combo.

Best I have heard amp are when they are at unity gain. Thats where preamp works. Keep amp at unity gain and control volume via good preamp.

 

[Borat]

But hey...enjoy the music and share the results! Interesting on how many have included a pre-amp in their chain...if it works for you great!

It also did not occur to me that so many people would use this product as a tube buffer in their headphone chain.

My thought process is similar to yours in that I don't really want a line stage in the chain ahead of my headphone amplifier, which is essentially an integrated amplifier just for headphones.

But this is also why the Freya is nice for me because it offers what is basically a "home theater bypass" mode if you switch to passive mode and turn the volume all the way up. According to Jason at Schiit, in this setting it functions as a 1:1 HT bypass with only a relay in the signal path. That is how I use the Freya when I want to listen to headphones. Otherwise its primary purpose is as a pre-amp for my 2-channel speaker setup. This allows me to share the same DAC and CD player sources in both setups.

Side note: Curiosity got the best of me so you guys got me to buy some Japan Raytheon 6cg7 tubes, which should be arriving soon.

I like using 4 matching 6cg7 tubes in my Freya N since the heater current is the same as the stock tubes. I find most of the other NOS type/non-Russian noval tubes like 6922, ECC88, etc have a lower heater current so you would ideally need to use 6H6P or 6N6P tubes on the left side to reach the recommended equivalent total heater current as stock.

 

[Dr. Cube]

What is your setup when listening to headphones through the Freya? Are you altering the gain by using the Freya's volume control or the headphone amp's volume control?

One of the SE outputs of the Freya+ goes to an Asgard 2. I set Freya volume at max on the JFET buffer, or at 3 o'clock on the tube output and control volume with the headphone amp. The system in question is primarily for listening with speakers, but the other SE output goes to a cassette deck input, and I need a way to monitor if I'm recording a tape, which ought to be as close to nominal line level as possible, leaving only the headphone amp as the place to control headphone volume. The Asgard is also pretty noisy with obvious mains hum if I crank it all the way up and try to control volume from the Freya.

 

[adydula]

Arrived!