[sidpost]

Digital cables like USB can be subject to noise from nearby electronics. You also have to take into account the quality and durability of the connection between the wire and the connector attached to the end.

This is pretty easy to see when you plug in different USB cables to the same charger and same cellphone at the same charge level and measure how long it takes to charge it up. While not the same, it will demonstrate the differences in cable quality.

Regarding Monoprice cables, they make some good ones and some pretty low-end ones. Comparing a $2 cable against a $20 is really an apples to peanut comparison IMHO.

 

[cdacosta]

I put this in the other Schiit thread. May get more traction during this active discussion.

Title: Cable pathways between audio components can affect perceived sound quality
http://boson.physics.sc.edu/~kunchur/papers/Audibility-of-cable-pathways--Kunchur.pdf

I only started getting serious with headphone systems about a year ago. I am fortunate to have a lot of nice cables that were in my packed up home theater I could try and use. But based on pricing of headphone gear that the cables are used with, there is a good argument for against spending a lot on cables. There are so many ways an audio system can be tweaked to improve performance that cabling is usually last to optimize performance and tune an audio system. Diminishing returns can also set in quickly with cables. I wish I could not hear a difference, but I do. I would have saved so much money if I could not hear a difference!

Thanks for providing the study, it is interesting.

 

[Plautus001]

Digital cables like USB can be subject to noise from nearby electronics. You also have to take into account the quality and durability of the connection between the wire and the connector attached to the end.

This is pretty easy to see when you plug in different USB cables to the same charger and same cellphone at the same charge level and measure how long it takes to charge it up. While not the same, it will demonstrate the differences in cable quality.

Regarding Monoprice cables, they make some good ones and some pretty low-end ones. Comparing a $2 cable against a $20 is really an apples to peanut comparison IMHO.

RCAs and speaker cables make a difference to a point, but more than $20-30 for USB is a waste.

I have used mid quality Amazon Basics with good results, Anker too but nothing over $30

 

[autoexec]

It's digital so as long as the cable isn't broken you are going to be fine.

Exactly

RCAs and speaker cables make a difference to a point, but more than $20-30 for USB is a waste.

Yes it's digital. It's not like copying files over one place to another tho. With those type of "digital" applications there are built-in countermeasures in the OS for any errors that may occur to automatically refetch the needed bits and whatnot. Sending digital signal on-the-fly to a DAC is a different story. It's decoding the streaming data in real-time and the DAC will not have a chance to refuse or detect what has been sent if there are any errors or noise to the signal for it to refetch the broken bits. I've become familiar with the issues on low quality usb cables (random jitters, very low quality bass texture, shallow depth to name a few) and switching to any generic coax cable is like 10x better to a normal usb cable even with a usb purifier.

Why do you think this device exists?

 

[Plautus001]

Yes it's digital. It's not like copying files over one place to another tho. With those type of "digital" applications there are built-in countermeasures in the OS for any errors that may occur to automatically refetch the needed bits and whatnot. Sending digital signal on-the-fly to a DAC is a different story. It's decoding the streaming data in real-time and the DAC will not have a chance to refuse or detect what has been sent if there are any errors or noise to the signal for it to refetch the broken bits. I've become familiar with the issues on low quality usb cables (random jitters, very low quality bass texture, shallow depth to name a few) and switching to any generic coax cable is like 10x better to a normal usb cable even with a usb purifier.

Why do you think this device exists?

So you are saying the 0's and 1's or "on" vs. "Off" signals need cables that cost more than $30?

 

[GearMe]

Yes it's digital. It's not like copying files over one place to another tho. With those type of "digital" applications there are built-in countermeasures in the OS for any errors that may occur to automatically refetch the needed bits and whatnot. Sending digital signal on-the-fly to a DAC is a different story. It's decoding the streaming data in real-time and the DAC will not have a chance to refuse or detect what has been sent if there are any errors or noise to the signal for it to refetch the broken bits. I've become familiar with the issues on low quality usb cables (random jitters, very low quality bass texture, shallow depth to name a few) and switching to any generic coax cable is like 10x better to a normal usb cable even with a usb purifier.

Why do you think this device exists?

SO...I'm a big proponent of people making their own choices using the criteria they see fit.

If you hear "(random jitters, very low quality bass texture, shallow depth to name a few)" when changing usb cables that are performing to spec, more power to you and I'm happy for the increased joy in your listening experiences!

For me, I've never heard that difference...so I buy cost-effective cables (usb, coax, analog, etc.) that perform to spec and look nice enough to me; though it's not a very high bar on the cosmetic front .

Given my experience, I'd rather spend $20-30 (or less) on a cable instead of $300 or $3000 and earmark those funds for transducers...where I have heard significant differences between different brands/model at varying price points.

 

[Chastity]

With the digital transfer on USB, if there are issues with using a cheap USB cable, you don't get changes in the audio stream, since it's not even been decoded yet. What you DO get is corrupted packets of data, which are rejected and resent from buffer. And on delta sigma DACs, there's an internal conversion of PCM to another format, which can be adjusted using PCM Impulse Filters integrated into the DAC.

Higher quality USB cables would just reduce the number of rejected packets, and would NOT affect the decoding of the digital signal in regards to improved analog audio.

You can, however, get dirty power over the 5V USB power pin from your PC, and THAT can affect your DAC, resulting in a raised noise floor and notable hissssh. Or even humming from a ground loop. The DAC can have a galvanic isolation circuit for this, and be self powered. If not, you can use an USB dongle that's designed to isolate the USB power, and feed in 5V from an external power source, with cleaner power. Some have also used self-powered USB hubs as a cheap alternative. You can also use a modded USB cable with the 5V pin removed.

I had this issue with my current setup, and solved it with an iDefender3.0 dongle, which isolates the 5V line from the PC. My M300 DAC is self powered so I don't need to use the port to supply it to the DAC. My noise floor dropped into darkness upon doing so, and is now very low. I use an USB cable from an old Logitech mouse and the audio is wonderfully rich and deep, with no detectable flaws.

 

[lazyturtle]

Hi guys, wondering if anyone compared modi 3e vs the ES9028 internal card with the Asgard 3? Which of it sounds better in your opinion?

 

[Chastity]

Hi guys, wondering if anyone compared modi 3e vs the ES9028 internal card with the Asgard 3? Which of it sounds better in your opinion?

I always recommend getting the external DAC. It's designed better, and has more inputs.

 

[Neweymatt]

I always recommend getting the external DAC. It's designed better, and has more inputs.

Yeah I doubt there’s much in is sound-wise. It’s more how you want to use it, do you prefer the simplicity of an all in one box? Or the flexibility of separates? If you go separate, you can use an EQ in between like a Loki or Lokius, which of course you can’t with the all in one.

It’s not like you’re locked in either way, eg you could get the card today, and then get a stand-alone DAC later like a Bifrost or something.

 

[artur9]

Yeah I doubt there’s much in is sound-wise. It’s more how you want to use it, do you prefer the simplicity of an all in one box? Or the flexibility of separates? If you go separate, you can use an EQ in between like a Loki or Lokius, which of course you can’t with the all in one.

It’s not like you’re locked in either way, eg you could get the card today, and then get a stand-alone DAC later like a Bifrost or something.

I went all-in-one. Convenience and that particular rig wasn't intended to extract every bit of musical enjoyment.

 

[Plautus001]

I went all-in-one. Convenience and that particular rig wasn't intended to extract every bit of musical enjoyment.

The Asgard 3 over performs, don't let the price fool you.

 

[artur9]

The Asgard 3 over performs, don't let the price fool you.

I'll say it does! I have the MB card in mine and use it for computer audio. It almost makes youtube listenable :-D

 

[lazyturtle]

Thanks for the response guys! I'm asking question because I've got a Asgard 3 with a faulty ES9028 card... It's a replacement unit that I got from Schiit - my first unit had channel imbalance issues but the second unit had dac issues... Just my luck i guess..

Gonna try asking Schiit if they can send me a Modi 3e and i'll return the faulty dac card, with me topping up the price difference. Wish me luck!

 

[holden4th]

I've got the Modi 3+ with my Asgard 3 and it works just fine. Then again the 3+ uses the AKM AK4490 chip not the ES9028.