[kyoshiro]

building a fabrication plant goes into billions, yields are not high until near end of life. The chips that have bad transistors goes out as lower models (thus the reason why we can Overclock, we really just try and use the deem "broken" transistors which were binned).
card makers make more money with reference boards because those boards are given by nvidia and they just package it, 2-3 months later, those ones are the customized cards by the card maker. 
(just my random info for you guys from someone who works in the IT industry and know people in the hardware industry )

 

[mikeaj]

It's the reference board designs (not the boards themselves) that are given by AMD and Nvidia.  Of course chip designers want to help out those manufacturers buying chips, so they make helpful reference designs to help products get to market faster, among other things.  Quite differently than for other IC/chip makers making more mundane things like transistors / op amps / DSPs / etc., AMD and Nvidia control when the board partners are allowed to release cards based on non-reference design; it takes some time to design a new PCB (well less for just a custom cooler), but that's not the only reason why there's the delay.
 
There's huge costs to recoup for the fabs, but the chips themselves aren't cheap due to the size, latest process technology, and yields.  Add in lots of GDDR5 memory, lowish RDS(on) MOSFETs, etc., and a cooling mechanism, and the cost isn't that low.  Of course they make much larger margins on the high-end stuff though.  
 
Now the question for me is:  wait for Ivy Bridge or Haswell?  Unfortunately I don't think any of you can look into the future for me, so your guess is probably as good as mine.  I'm stuck on 45nm Core 2 Duo.

 

[kyoshiro]

Actually in Nvidia's case its actually given to them and made at Foxconn (I know the CEO of one of the card makers) But yeah card makers make the most money out of reference boards.
Ivy Bridge is a good upgrade for you lol, Im using a i7 920 as my main with a Q6600 and E7200 machine as my fileserver/VM server and development server. 
 
Quote:

It's the reference board designs (not the boards themselves) that are given by AMD and Nvidia.  Of course chip designers want to help out those manufacturers buying chips, so they make helpful reference designs to help products get to market faster, among other things.  Quite differently than for other IC/chip makers making more mundane things like transistors / op amps / DSPs / etc., AMD and Nvidia control when the board partners are allowed to release cards based on non-reference design; it takes some time to design a new PCB (well less for just a custom cooler), but that's not the only reason why there's the delay.
 
There's huge costs to recoup for the fabs, but the chips themselves aren't cheap due to the size, latest process technology, and yields.  Add in lots of GDDR5 memory, lowish RDS(on) MOSFETs, etc., and a cooling mechanism, and the cost isn't that low.  Of course they make much larger margins on the high-end stuff though.  
 
Now the question for me is:  wait for Ivy Bridge or Haswell?  Unfortunately I don't think any of you can look into the future for me, so your guess is probably as good as mine.  I'm stuck on 45nm Core 2 Duo.

 

 

[Crazy*Carl]

Quote:

 
Now the question for me is:  wait for Ivy Bridge or Haswell?  Unfortunately I don't think any of you can look into the future for me, so your guess is probably as good as mine.  I'm stuck on 45nm Core 2 Duo.

I still have the e8400, but I am in no rush for upgrade.  The only reason I have for upgrading is bf3, and that's not cause enough for to get a $1500 rig yet.  Maybe kepler and ivy bridge...
 

 

[Maxvla]

Wait.. is this an amplifier thread?

 

[firev1]

Quote:

 
On a side note, NwAVGuy needs to design an O2 with balanced connections lol.
 


 

I'm gonna bring this topic back on track =P.
 
Guess we all know that we will never design it. But self designing a balanced topology to add on using a taller casing isn't out of order for the folks at diyaudio. That being said, its been around 2 months with my 2 O2 amps, I really love um, they provide the resolution that I only found in the much higher end amps that I tried at jaben but could never afford(college-fi). I really have fun reexploring my collection again on my TF10s, digital or disk. I don't really use headphones these days but having them 2 amps makes me wanna get a replacement fast( still deciding). 

 

[maverickronin]

Quote:

Wait.. is this an amplifier thread?

Quote:

I'm gonna bring this topic back on track =P.

Exactly.  What's an Objective2 thread without silly criticisms?
 

 
I still love mine.
 
I can't wait for the desktop version either.  I'm probably going to build a customized version with lots of inputs, a crossfeed circuit, and maybe a remote controlled resistor ladder stepped volume control.

 

[Naim.F.C]

I'm loving mine too. Just wish it was better built and designed physically and aesthetically (though the JDS front panel looks ace, I have an Epiphany one, but would have bought a JDS one had it come out sooner!). What I wouldn't give for an RSA quality build of an O2. I asked John about doing a premium model, and he said he'd consider it except the possibility that using different components could change the sound signature somewhat, and with the ODA not too far away, there might be little point.

 

[Crazy*Carl]

Is JDS the preferred method of obtaining an O2 right now?  I can't really find them elsewhere.

 

[maverickronin]

Quote:

I'm loving mine too. Just wish it was better built and designed physically and aesthetically (though the JDS front panel looks ace, I have an Epiphany one, but would have bought a JDS one had it come out sooner!). What I wouldn't give for an RSA quality build of an O2. I asked John about doing a premium model, and he said he'd consider it except the possibility that using different components could change the sound signature somewhat, and with the ODA not too far away, there might be little point.

The PCB layout and the specific op amps are probably the most important parts.  It shouldn't change the performance much unless you really mess around with the other stuff.
 
I think it would be nicer if there was a smaller version.  The O2 is so big because lithium batteries aren't as practical for DIY projects requiring large 9V rechargeables and because it uses large through-hole parts to make it easy to build.  With lithium batteries, DC-DC converters, a multi layer surface mount board, and Chinese manufacturing the Objective2's basic design could probably be implemented in half the size at the same cost or less.
 
Lord Voldermot probably wouldn't even mind as long as they sent him a sample so he could verify its performance.
 
Quote:

Is JDS the preferred method of obtaining an O2 right now?  I can't really find them elsewhere.

If you don't want to build it yourself its either JDS or Epiphany AFIK.  Choice is pretty much down to aesthetics or how cost varies based on exchange rates and shipping.

 

[shotgunshane]

Quote:

I think it would be nicer if there was a smaller version.  The O2 is so big because lithium batteries aren't as practical for DIY projects requiring large 9V rechargeables and because it uses large through-hole parts to make it easy to build.  With lithium batteries, DC-DC converters, a multi layer surface mount board, and Chinese manufacturing the Objective2's basic design could probably be implemented in half the size at the same cost or less.
 
Lord Voldermot probably wouldn't even mind as long as they sent him a sample so he could verify its performance.

This.  Sign me up!

 

[Crazy*Carl]

I am planning in running the O2 right out of my computers analog out, which is not line level.  I am gonna do some testing on that vs ipod LOD to see if it really degrades anything.  If it does then maybe I will consider some cheap usb DAC to get line level (I don't really believe in high end DAC's).  I don't expect the desktop version to be out for quite some time, especially for non DIYers like myself.  I can upgrade then.

My basic philosophy is I don't really expect dedicated DAC/AMPs to do very much, I just want to get proper power and a clean signal to my Sennheisers.
 

 

[maverickronin]

Quote:

I am planning in running the O2 right out of my computers analog out, which is not line level.  I am gonna do some testing on that vs ipod LOD to see if it really degrades anything.  If it does then maybe I will consider some cheap usb DAC to get line level (I don't really believe in high end DAC's).  I don't expect the desktop version to be out for quite some time, especially for non DIYers like myself.  I can upgrade then.

My basic philosophy is I don't really expect dedicated DAC/AMPs to do very much, I just want to get proper power and a clean signal to my Sennheisers.

Most USB DACs (especially the cheap ones) don't get up to the 2V Redbook standard if that's what you're looking for.
 
Integrated sound cards are pretty hit or miss.  You'll probably know right away if you need a USB DAC though since the bad integrated sound cards are usually disastrously awful with plainly audible levels of noise, static, and distortion, noise that modulates with the computer's activity, or $DEITY forsaken drivers that have DSPs you can't disable.

 

[zzffnn]

I really hope Fiio will adopt the design of O2 and make it more portable;
I will buy one for sure.

 

[Crazy*Carl]

Quote:

Most USB DACs (especially the cheap ones) don't get up to the 2V Redbook standard if that's what you're looking for.
 
Integrated sound cards are pretty hit or miss.  You'll probably know right away if you need a USB DAC though since the bad integrated sound cards are usually disastrously awful with plainly audible levels of noise, static, and distortion, noise that modulates with the computer's activity, or $DEITY forsaken drivers that have DSPs you can't disable.

Mine is definitely a hit.  Its a media desktop mobo.  Whats the 2V standard?  I would still be using the O2 to get proper power.
 
And despite what people say, I have listened to a wide variety of onboard sound, any almost anything recent sounds pretty good.  If you get to the Pentium 4 era, they start to sound pretty bad.