i just got my DA-151 today... all i can say is it's incredible. this is my first USB DAC, and just using it with my PA2v2 amp and SR60's im noticing worlds of difference from the headphone out from my macbook. i seriously can not wait until my RS1's and head direct EF1 get here.
Originally Posted by beez /img/forum/go_quote.gif i just got my DA-151 today... all i can say is it's incredible. this is my first USB DAC, and just using it with my PA2v2 amp and SR60's im noticing worlds of difference from the headphone out from my macbook. i seriously can not wait until my RS1's and head direct EF1 get here.
Congrats is yours the MKII version that David now sells on Ebay? Hopefully mine will arrive sometime next week.
how noticeable is the difference between the Mk1 version and the newer Mk2 version that is now on ebay? is it worth getting a newer one or am I better off just looking for a used Mk1 for cheaper? is the difference substantial enough to warrant me going for the Mk2? sorry for the noobness, I can't tell by just specs alone.
I was thinking of buying a 131 on ebay until I priced it at 400 with shipping which is dacmagic territory. Which is better? I hear so many good things about both, but the dacmagic seems like the holy grail of the sub 400 dac category
I must remind everyone here that you can get it directly without going through ebay's mechanism, just check out AudiogoN high end audio auctions, classifieds, hifi chat and send a mail through audiogon's system to do it. (Or you can PM me directly) Doing so you will get the price that does not have ebay's overhead added.
I was looking at the dacmagic as well. It looks OK. I haven't listened to it, so I cannot comment on it's performance... but it looks like it's an oversampling DAC. I've had both an oversampling and non-oversampling (NOS) DAC... and to my ear, I preferred the NOS DAC. The Keces is a NOS DAC, I believe...
Also, there are frivolous connections on the dacmagic. Er, I should say they are frivolous for me. I really only need one set of outputs and a coaxial / optical input. I don't like the idea of paying for extra features that I won't use.
I have listened to the DacMagic and for my ears it´s a non contest to the 131 mk 2 favour... Surely the DacMagic has more connections but one coaxial and one optical is pretty much what I need
I also have the Valab NOS DAC. I don´t think the Keces is a NOS DAC but may be wrong. Not really to sure what NOS incorporates. The Valab doesn´t have any upsampling anyway. the Valab is nice for classical I like the flow it has. Equal to the Keces there I feel. Otherwise I preferr the Keces... deeper soundstage, absolutely dead silent, even cleaner sound, better dynamics and just more my cup of tea I suppose.
I must say that all of our DACs are not NOS, PCM1793 (DA-131 series) are AFAIK partial multi-bit, partial oversampling DAC. Most modern DAC chips are of the oversampling type, even the really old TDA-1540 is oversampling type (IIRC). However, we do not use upsampling/sample rate conversion. Data received by the receiver chip (CS8416) is routed to the DAC (PCM1793) via the shortest trace possible without any added processing in the middle.
In our opinion, simple sample rate conversion does not really do much except possibly losing detail in the process. Most of the high end DAC that does upsampling also do a truckload of other processings that might enhance the sound, which could be the key why some of them are so good. However, with out the added processing, we just don't see simple upsampling via a SRC chip is going to do much other than possibly losing stuff in the conversion process and add additional cost of the SRC chip too.
I am a bit confused... I thought that the term 'non over-sampling' referred to whether the signal is upsampled to 24bit / 192 KHz sound, even if the source is something lower like 16 bit / 44.1 KHz. I had read that the Keces doesn't convert the sample rate... and so I thought by definition that this would mean it is a 'non over-sampling' DAC.
Am I off? Or are you saying that it isn't a NOS DAC because it is partial oversampling?
Also, I'm curious as to what it means for the chip to be partial multi-bit and partial oversampling.
Upsampling = converting sampling rate/size from one to another, for example 16bit/44.1KHz to 24bit/96KHz.
Oversampling = this is a bit more complicated than upsampling. It basically is a way to use DAC that does not have as much bit "width" to function as if it does.
One simple example can be seen with one of the earliest DAC, TDA-1540 (recalling off the top of my head, so pardon for any errors in my memory). The DAC is a 14bit DAC, but the data is 16bit data... How do you make a 14bit DAC to function as a 16bit DAC? Simple, just make it run 4 times as fast and use the digital filter to generate the proper data for the DAC to produce the effect of 16bit DAC.
For example, a DAC is able to output voltage level in increments of 1 volt... So how does it output say 1.25V? By quickly switching the output between 1 and 2 volt in the ratio of a 2 volt output with three 1 volt output. With a smoothing circuit at the end (which is what LPF does), and you get something that's really really looking like 1.25V to you.
That's my understand of the principles, however this is all recalled off the top of my head, so feel free to let me know if I have any mistakes.
Wow, interesting. It's good to get some clarification on the two terms (upsampling and oversampling) as they seem to be often used interchangeably with each other.
On another note, I wanted to comment on the postings earlier regarding unit pricing... while buying on eBay may be a bit more expensive up front (justifiably compensating for seller fees) as opposed to buying direct, at times you may be able to take advantage of the Live Search cashback discounts... I have no idea how this program works (probably advertising), but it offers percentage discounts to certain items if you use the 'buy it now' function and pay via Paypal. This can lower your price considerably. For example, I just bought a 131 MK2 from eBay and received a 10% cashback discount upon final payment, which effectively dropped my total cost below that of buying direct.
This may help tilt someone who is on the fence about buying a Keces or not into making the purchase.
BTW, David - I sent you a few e-mails over the past couple days in regards to my purchase that I want to make sure you have received...
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