[Hirsch]

OK, I bit. Took a look at my Grovers and still had the SR. Three pairs just went out for upgrade. I'll report back.

 

[DarkAngel]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hirsch OK, I bit. Took a look at my Grovers and still had the SR. Three pairs just went out for upgrade. I'll report back.

Just think if you sold one of those VD Revelation IC pairs used how many Grover UR4 cables you could buy

Hirsch you have some serious money invested in audio now, the cable list alone makes my wallet sweat....

 

[eyeteeth]

Quote:

Originally Posted by adhoc ugh - another upgrade??! sigh, this really sucks for us overseas customers.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarkAngel In case you are new reader to Grover cable threads and want some idea how these stack up for me against well known more expensive competition 2-3 years ago I owned/sold off all the following ICs which were eventually surpassed by Grover UR: AZ Silver Reference AZ Matrix AP Solo Crystal AP Silver Oval HomeGrown Silver Lace Cardas Golden Cross Silver Audio Hyacinth Now own only Wolff, Grover, Bogdan IC cables.....

I'll play a hand of devil's advocate just for some fresh thoughts.

The upgrade thing is looking awful. On one hand these cables are not yet ready for prime time? On the other hand you can't blame a guy for wanting to improve his product. But really get it together. If markl can't tell the difference blind between one upgrade and the other upgrade 2-3, then why waste the customer's time?

Are there any headfiers who have heard half the cables out there in the $100-$200 range? Internet enthusiasts/amatuers raving about something is really a dime a dozen and essentially meaningless.
New cable outfits seem to be poping up daily. Having heard a dozen over a four year period doesn't seem like much of a survey.

Acoustic Zen www.acousticzen.com
Actinote www.actinote.com
American Recorder Technologies www.americanrecorder.com
Analysis Plus www.analysis-plus.com
Apature www.apature.com
Argent Audio www.roomlens.com
Ascendant Cables www.ascendantcables.com
Audience www.audience-av.com
Audio Cables R Us www.audiocablesrus.com
Audio Magic www.audio-magic.com
Audio Metallurgy www.audiometallurgy.com
Audio Note www.audionote.co.uk
Audioquest www.audioquest.com
Aural Symphonics www.auralsymphonics.com
Avic Cable www.aviccable.com
Axiom Audio www.axiomaudio.com/cables.html
bdcable www.bdcable.com
Bear Labs www.bearlabs.com
Bertram Audio www.audiokabel.dk
Better Cables www.bettercables.com
Black Mountain Cable www.blackmountaincable.com
Blue Jeans Cable www.bluejeanscable.com
Blue Marble Audio www.bluemarbleaudio.com
The Bolder Cable Company www.boldercables.com
ByBee Technologies www.bybeetech.com
CablePro www.thecablepro.com
Cable Research Lab www.musicalsurroundings.com
Cardas Audio www.cardas.com
Cat Cables www.catcables.com
Cerious Technologies www.cerioustechnologies.com
Chimera Labs www.chimeralabs.com
The Chord Company www.chord.co.uk
Clear Audio www.clearaudio.de
Cobalt Cable www.cobaltcable.com
Coincident Speaker Technology www.coincidentspeaker.com
Crystal Cable www.crystalcable.com
Crystal Clear Audio www.crystalclearaudio.com
Decorp www.decorp.com
DH Labs www.silversonic.com
DiMarzio www.dimarzio.com
Discovery Cable www.discoverycable.com
DNM www.dnm.co.uk
Dope Sounds www.dope-sounds.de
Dynamic Design no website
Ecosse Reference Cable www.ecossecables.co.uk
Element Cable www.elementcable.com
Empirical Audio www.empiricalaudio.com
Ethereal www.etherealhometheater.com
Fadel Art www.fadelart.com
Furutech www.furutech.com
Goertz Alpha Core www.alphacore.com/goertz.htm
Golden Sound www.dhcones.com
Goldmund www.goldmund.com
Granite Audio www.graniteaudio.com
Guerilla Audio guerillaaudio.com
Gut Wire Audio Cables www.gutwire.com
Harmonic Technology www.harmonictech.com
Hamonix www.mayaudio.com
Herron www.herronaudio.com
Hovland www.hovlandcompany.com
Innersound www.innersound.net
Jena Labs www.jenalabs.com
JPS Labs www.jpslabs.com
Kas Audio www.kasaudio.com
Keeler Cables www.keelercables.com
Kharma www.kharma.com
Kimber Kable www.kimber.com
Kimer Select www.kimber.com
Krautwire www.krautwire.cz
Kubala-Sosna www.kubala-sosna.com
LAT International www.latinternational.com
Linn Products www.linn.co.uk
Luminous Audio Technology www.luminousaudio.com
Magnan www.magnan.com
Maple Audio Works www.mapleaudio.com
Marigo Audio Lab www.marigoaudio.com
Merlin Cables www.merlincables.com
Mogami www.mogamicable.com
Moon Audio www.moon-audio.com
Monster Cable www.monstercable.com
Music Interface Technologies (MIT) www.mitcables.com
Music Metre www.musicmetre.com
Nirvana Audio www.nirvanaaudio.com
Nordost www.nordost.com
NBS Audio Cables www.nbscables.com
Oehlbach www.oehlbach.com
Origin Live www.originlive.com
Outlaw Audio www.outlawaudio.com
Pear Cable www.pearcable.com
Phoenix Gold www.phoenixgold.com
PHY-HP www.phy-hp.com
PNF Audio www.pnfaudio.com
Poth Audio www.pothaudio.com
Prisma Cable www.artech-electronics.com
PS Audio www.psaudio.com
Pure Silver Sound www.puresilversound.com
Pure Note www.purenote.com
Pure Silver Connection www.pscaudio.com
Purist Audio Design www.puristaudiodesign.com
Q-Audio www.q-audio.com
R.E. Designs www.redesignsaudio.com
Revelation Audio Labs www.revelationaudiolabs.com
River Cable www.rivercable.com
RS Audio Cables www.rscables.com
Shinpy www.shinpy.com
Shunyata Research www.shunyata.com
Signal Group www.signalcable.com
Siltech Cables www.siltechcables.com
Silver Audio www.silveraudio.com
Silver Science www.silverscience.com
Silversmith Audio www.silversmithaudio.com
Slinkylinks www.slinkylinks.net
SonoCable www.sonocable.com
Soundstring Cable Technologies www.soundstringcable.com
Stager marc.stager.com/silver/
Stealth Audio Cables www.stealthaudiocables.com
Stereovox www.stereovox.com
Straight Wire www.straightwire.de
Supra Cables www.tonianlabs.com
Synergistic Research www.synergisticresearch.com
Tara Labs www.taralabs.com
Tek Line Audio Cables www.teklineaudio.com
Totem Acoustic www.totemacoustic.com
Transparent Cable www.transparentcable.com
Tributaries www.tributariescable.com
Triphazer www.triphazer.com
TweekGeek www.tweekgeek.com
Ultralink www.ultralinkcables.com
Ultimate Sonics www.ultimate-sonics.com
Vampire Wire www.vampirewire.com
Van Den Hul www.vandenhul.com
VH Audio www.vhaudio.com
Virtual Dynamics http://virtualdynamics.ca
Vivid Audio http://vividaudio.net
Voba Acoustic www.voba-acoustic.com
Von Gaylord Audio www.vongaylordaudio.com
Wasatch Cable Works www.wasatchcableworks.com
Wireworld Cables www.wireworldaudio.com
XLO www.xloelectric.com
xtreme cables www.xtremecables.com
Yamamura www.yamamura.com
Zaolla www.zaolla.com
Zcable www.zcable.com

Are those even half that are out there?!
I need to win a lottery in order to find out who has the best $100 IC!

I do differ a bit to pro reviewers who may have heard 80 pairs of cable and with multiple amps, sources, speakers, etc. The point being when will there be a pro review? I know that isn't everything either (ever read a bad cable review? No. They all "easily compete with cables costing four to five times as much").
RS Audio Cables $119 USD 1.5M "fall short of Valhalla -- the finest cables I’ve ever used -- by a remarkably small degree, and only then in transparency and resolution." Anyone here heard these? I wonder how they compare to the UR (version 8?

)?

I'm not entirely sure what my advice is or if I have any. I guess take off the blinders? I know if I were to lay out $140 I'd probably up it to $200 and try the Oritek X-1 "Yes, better than Valhalla, especially when presenting the impact of the leading edge of bass notes. The mids are warm and lucid on one hand and also focused and tactile on the other hand. Voices possess a convincing humanity. The highs, importantly, are clear, very open and extended, but in exactly the proper proportion required by the harmonic overtones to be realistic. The terms harsh or bright do not apply: the treble simply is what is required. In this area especially, X-1 is clearly superior to either Nordost cable. While the X-1 offers a more open and extended treble than Valhalla, there is no hint of any problem such as glare as a result."
"In a final comparison, I preferred the X-1s to my $1400 Jena Labs interconnects in most respects. The X-1s had more detail and liveliness, and the quality of their imaging was much higher"

Do I believe that? Do you? Will I try them? Probably, I'm a sucker too.

Maybe the differences between $30 and $3000 aren't that great? Yesterday I saw and spontaneously bought a $33 USD pair of Belkin PureAV Silver Series RCA Audio Cables (an earlier online order fell through). How do they sound? Perfectly fine! Jumping back and forth between them and Grover 3? When the Grovers were on I prefered them, when the Belkin were on I prefered them. The Grovers sounded more refined and linear. The Belkin sounded more dynamic and expressive. The Grovers seemed muted, recessed, coloured or as fans say "smooth". The Belkin coarser, rougher, brighter, louder but only by a very small amount. They were also more open, extended, transparent, (subjectively honest). But like I said I'd put on the Grover and like it more...until I put on the Belkin. They each had merits I liked and weren't too far from each other.

System dependant/personal preferences are all there.
Where is the best place for a fella to toss his/her $30-$100-$200?
Just food for thought.

And yes I'm burning in the Belkin even though I'm not sure that makes any difference.

"5. Do I need to “Break-In” my cables?

No. At this time Pear Cable is not aware of any changes in the characteristics of its cables as time elapses. While many manufacturers claim that break-in is necessary, Pear Cable believes that this phenomenon has more to do with psychological effects than physical effects."
Egads a cable company that doesn't believe in break-in/burn-in! (They don't like handmade cables either)

Well I'm not ready for $1000 cables anyway!

 

[markl]

eyeteeth,
I agree that cables are one of the most system-dependent components there are. These things are all a matter of taste, and "fit" within one's own system, just like with any other component discussed/reviewed and picked apart here endlessly on Head-Fi, is a totally dependent factor. What do you mean "Sennheiser veil" I don't hear it! What do you mean "Grate-os", they sound smooth and refined to me! Quote:

The upgrade thing is looking awful. On one hand these cables are not yet ready for prime time? On the other hand you can't blame a guy for wanting to improve his product. But really get it together. If markl can't tell the difference blind between one upgrade and the other upgrade 2-3, then why waste the customer's time?

I don't speak for Grover by any stretch, but I don't think this is his purpose at all. With Grover, what you have is a dedicated music fan with a small underground cable business who is always experimenting with subtle changes in his basic design. He is what he is, and his operation is what it is-- if you can't abide with the constant upgrades and it leaves you with too much fear, uncertainty and doubt-- don't buy! I've never heard a "bad" cable from him, he knows what good sound is, and is always striving to improve his offerings, sometimes these are small incremental upgrades, sometimes larger leaps.

He has new revisions or variations on his theme at a very frequent rate, that's for sure. For some, this can be interpreted as someone who can't make up his mind as to what his product should be, or to others as a guy who is never satisfied, but always trying new things, and offering them to the public if he feels they make an improvement over his previous incarnation. Maybe that's frustrating to some people, but then again, maybe that's to be applauded, maybe it's just great innovation and constant improvement, that's all in the eye of the beholder, IMO.

I can tell you that Grover is a real gentleman, a true enthusiast, and great to work with. If you want a faceless company with one product that never changes, there are many options. And that's fair enough.
Quote:

Are there any headfiers who have heard half the cables out there in the $100-$200 range? Internet enthusiasts/amatuers raving about something is really a dime a dozen and essentially meaningless.

I agree, it's impossible to take a full and complete survey of the cable market at any price point, but there's nothing anyone can do about that. But are you suggesting that *no one* is qualified to offer his opinion on any cable? With all the headphone amplifier choices now available, there is no one who could offer a "fully-informed" opinion on any headphone amp he/she might choose to review. No one has the time, patience or expense account to try all of the thousands of cables out there. All you have are people with their limited experience of the cable market to report on what they hear in their system, enthusiasts. It's "buyer beware" obviously, I certainly don't purport to present myself as the ULTIMATE cable authority, PERIOD. But as I listed at the start of this thread, I have heard around 30 different aftermarket ICs and the Grovers are very close to the top, with the Wolff cables being my current preference.

I don't think any reviewer on Head-Fi represents him/herself as the messiah of the gear he reviews, all he/she can offer is his/her experience. It's not like readers of these reviews are naive children or total babes in the wood with no sense of anything. If you want to argue that everyone else on the site but you are total rubes and morons unable to think for themselves or interpret reviews they read here for what they are-- good luck with that!

They are surely savvy enough to take them for what they are-- subjective impressions provided by other music-lovers for their *consideration* not to be taken as absolute FACT.

I think there may be a mis-conception among some Head-Fiers that there is some sort of clandestine Head-Fi trust or clan who work secretly behind-the-scenes to elevate certain products to the fore, either innocently or for nefarious reasons. I've been around since day 1 and I've never seen any evidence that would support this conspiracy theory in the slightest.

What I so see, are a few hardy, dedicated, music-lovers who post their reviews on their own, un-prompted. Anyone is free to post their thoughts here on any piece of gear they buy, as you have done with the Grover Cables.

But when one observes many experienced and inexperienced members all singing the praises of one piece of gear, be it a headphone, an amp, a source, or a cable, maybe that counts for something. Or, maybe it's just all placebo to some folks, or herd-mentality, to be dismissed at will. I can't make that decision for anyone.

 

[eyeteeth]

Quote:

Originally Posted by markl With Grover, what you have is a dedicated music fan with a small underground cable business who is always experimenting with subtle changes in his basic design. He has new revisions or variations on his theme at a very frequent rate, that's for sure. For some, this can be interpreted as someone who can't make up his mind as to what his product should be, or to others as a guy who is never satisfied, but always trying new things, and offering them to the public if he feels they make an improvement over his previous incarnation. Maybe that's frustrating to some people, but then again, maybe that's to be applauded, maybe it's just great innovation and constant improvement, that's all in the eye of the beholder, IMO. I can tell you that Grover is a real gentleman, a true enthusiast, and great to work with. If you want a faceless company with one product that never changes, there are many options. And that's fair enough. No one has the time, patience or expense account to try all of the thousands of cables out there. All you have are people with their limited experience of the cable market to report on what they hear in their system, enthusiasts.

I agree with all the above, although I don't think weekly updates are good for business.

I think most of the cable companies are small outfits even the bigger boys. Kimber is run by a guy named Ray I think. I assume he's a gentleman as well.

Quote:

Originally Posted by markl It's not like readers of these reviews are naive children or total babes in the wood with no sense of anything. If you want to argue that everyone else on the site but you are total rubes and morons unable to think for themselves or interpret reviews they read here for what they are-- good luck with that! .

No but I think there are quite a few who have a more skeptical eye/ear who might like to question or challenge but who feel intimidated or wonder if they'll be labeled a troll or troublemaker such. I do think a dissenting or tempering view can be a positive thing, even if it does look disruptive on the surface. Even what appears to be an unfair question can have benefits in arriving at a fair assessment. It's about arriving at that fair assessment, although I don't think I've been unfair.


Quote:

Originally Posted by markl I think there may be a mis-conception among some Head-Fiers that there is some sort of clandestine Head-Fi trust or clan who work secretly behind-the-scenes to elevate certain products to the fore, either innocently or for nefarious reasons. I've been around since day 1 and I've never seen any evidence that would support this conspiracy theory in the slightest.

I don't think that. I chalk it up to the inability, as you've pointed out, to be able to fairly survey the products available.

Quote:

Originally Posted by markl But when one observes many experienced and inexperienced members all singing the praises of one piece of gear, be it a headphone, an amp, a source, or a cable, maybe that counts for something. Or, maybe it's just all placebo to some folks, or herd-mentality, to be dismissed at will. I can't make that decision for anyone.

Quote:

Originally Posted by markl What I so see, are a few hardy, dedicated, music-lovers who post their reviews on their own, un-prompted. Anyone is free to post their thoughts here on any piece of gear they buy, as you have done with the Grover Cables.

And I contribute as well in this regard with comparisons and questions (RS Audio, Belkin, Oritek). Comparisons, questions and attempts at reality checks, however successful or unsuccessful, are good things I think. We're all searching for our own personal ultimate reference at various given price points.

 

[pabbi1]

OK, I bit, even though I need a new source more than the IC (both won't hurt). But I am curious about how these $125 (.5m in my case) IC will compare to the Moon Blue Dragon.

That will be an additional reference point with something in the same price range.

 

[pabbi1]

Got the cables today... must TRY not to gush...

Mark, your elegant description is (deadly) accurate (IMMHO).

I'll simply say the UR4 is an upgrade, and, for lack of a better term, spellbinding.

Two thumbs up.

 

[jp11801]

Quote:

Originally Posted by pabbi1 Got the cables today... must TRY not to gush... Mark, your elegant description is (deadly) accurate (IMMHO). I'll simply say the UR4 is an upgrade, and, for lack of a better term, spellbinding. Two thumbs up.

can't wait to get mine, when did you order? Mine went in begining of september and still no cables. Even with the vacation it's been about a month, so I hope I'll be getting them anytime now. I hate to bother Grover as I realize he responds to where are my cables it's time he is not making cables.

 

[PATB]

I haven't heard a better sounding pair at this price. From his backorder, I guess a lot of people agree. Mine took forever too (I think about two months, and that's before they became popular at head-fi).

So just stay in line and relax and Grover will take care of you.

Quote:

Originally Posted by jp11801 can't wait to get mine, when did you order? Mine went in begining of september and still no cables. Even with the vacation it's been about a month, so I hope I'll be getting them anytime now. I hate to bother Grover as I realize he responds to where are my cables it's time he is not making cables.

 

[jp11801]

Quote:

Originally Posted by PATB I haven't heard a better sounding pair at this price. From his backorder, I guess a lot of people agree. Mine took forever too (I think about two months, and that's before they became popular at head-fi). So just stay in line and relax and Grover will take care of you.

yes no worries I have good cables now I just am excited to hear these. I know he is slammed with orders right now. Thanks JP

 

[pabbi1]

I had to send a friendly status email after a week, then got them about a week later - 2 weeks total.

One question to all: I have taken the QuickSilver Contact plunge - anyone know if the Grovers are already treated, or if alternately treated, if QuickSilver is still beneficial or detrimental?

 

[adhoc]

Quote:

Originally Posted by pabbi1 I had to send a friendly status email after a week, then got them about a week later - 2 weeks total. One question to all: I have taken the QuickSilver Contact plunge - anyone know if the Grovers are already treated, or if alternately treated, if QuickSilver is still beneficial or detrimental?

afaik, they are not treated with anything.

i also know for a fact that they are plated with nickel, so i would surmise while QuickSilver would certainly improve contact area, the bottleneck would still be the connector plating material.

 

[DarkAngel]

Time to update the Grover cable saga........we discussed the UR4 cable in some detail in previous posts, and my impression was that it is the biggest advance in sound of any of the previous UR designs.

Grover of course has been tweaking things further in last 1+ months, I have the very latest incarnation which arrived 1 week ago. I ran it through the FryKleaner cable conditioner for 3 days and gave it a couple listens. It looks just like previous UR4 but now label says:

Grover U.4. with two period marks

If I compare to older UR4 design it seems just slightly warmer fuller sounding, but not missing any detail resolution or soundstage size. I think most people will prefer this newest version (including me) and welcome the added richness, but this is just a very subtle distinction. Everything flows very smoothly with great detail resolution, it acheives that difficult feat of sounding relaxed and supple yet dynamic, powerful, and finely detailed.

Nothing for owners of current UR4 to be concerned with, but I would recommend owners of earlier UR or older SR Grovers to seriously consider upgrading as the bar has been raised noticeably with Grover's latest work.

Any more recent Grover cable reports?
(MarkL is cabled out now I think after his huge power cord report

)

 

[euclid]

grover contacted me on thursday and said hes been working his ass off in R&D and a ur5 is on the way. i cant wait to hear it.

BTW if you reverse the direction of grovers the overall sound and especially the stage is distinctly different. i usally have the grover labels closest to the source but my u4 sound alot better with the labels closest to the amp.

 

[arnaud]

Although I was at first very pleasantly surprised with the punch, sparkle, soundstage and bass authority of the UR1, I have grown tired of some slight sibilance. It sounded very smooth in the first hours but now that it's all burned in, the highs are not grainy sounding, but something is not enjoyable, not sure how to describe it.

So today, after a few weeks spent with the UR1, I actually switched back to Outlaw Audio PCAs interconnects. The sound is more mellow, the soundstage is nowhere near the same but overall it sings more. Somehow, the music is just more pleasant.

Based on update descriptions provided here (esp UR4 and soon to arrive UR5), the upgrade seems tempting, but is this really the kind of cable for my taste? In other words, are the latest updates making the cable more fun to listen to (I am not sure how to describe what I don't like about the UR1, maybe too cold, analytical, too perfect?!).

cheers,

Arnaud.