[big-ban]

Hello everyone!

In the past few days I've been experimenting a little with the ancient hifi rig I still have in my room. It has received light use in the past few years since my main rig is my computer.
The rig consists of:

- Technics SA-GX 130D Receiver/Amp
- Technics SL-PG 440 CD Player

As my computer rig I have:

Terratec Aureon 5.1 Sky Soundcard -> cheapo mini/RCA interconnect -> Rega Ear

I've been quite happy with my HD650s over the past few years and I always thought it sounded great in combination with the Rega.

I couldn't really believe my ears though when I hooked up my soundcard's output to the VCR/AUX input of my Technics receiver and plugged the HD650s into the receiver's headphone out - whoa, something was different here. It occured to me that there was more detail than with the Rega, more separation, overall more clarity. The bass was still there, all the fullness of the midrange, just with more detail and air between the instruments.
It's kinda hard for me to accept that the supposedly lower-quality headphone out of my receiver appears to sound better than my Rega - which is said to have a great synergy with the Senns. I even doublechecked and A/B'ed the two systems several times, just to make sure - there was a clear difference.
But how can that be?
It keeps me thinking if it might be the Rega's power supply. I actually imported a 110V version of the Ear from Canada back then and in order to be able to use it in Germany, I had to get some 220V->110V converter (didn't cost much, so probably lower quality). So I've been powering the Rega with that converter ever since, but clearly there must be something wrong with it.
Now to my question: is it possible that the headphone out of my Technics receiver does sound better or is it more likely that there's something wrong with my Rega Ear?
The input voltage of the Ear is 24V, so maybe I could try to find a suitable 220V->24V wall wart?

Does anyone have an educated guess on this? Any help is much appreciated!

Best regards,
Ben

 

[spacemanspliff]

Personally, I really didn't like the Rega Ear at all. My Sony 1000ESD pre-amp headphone out kicked it's butt too.

 

[Davesrose]

It may be your source. I've found the SQ on an amp varies widely depending on what source you're using. That especially holds true with computers as sources. It could be that the dynamics sound better on an old reciever because it's not as revealing as the Rega.

So have you just tried the Rega on your Technics CD player (using it's audio out)? I'd A/B that with your soundcard to see what you like most. If you still don't like the Rega's sound, you either need to get another amp or a better DAC. My inclination would be to work on a DAC.

 

[big-ban]

Quote:

Originally Posted by spacemanspliff /img/forum/go_quote.gif Personally, I really didn't like the Rega Ear at all. My Sony 1000ESD pre-amp headphone out kicked it's butt too.

Now that's odd... so my ears might not even be all that wrong.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Davesrose /img/forum/go_quote.gif It may be your source. I've found the SQ on an amp varies widely depending on what source you're using. That especially holds true with computers as sources. It could be that the dynamics sound better on an old reciever because it's not as revealing as the Rega.

I'm not so sure the source is the big problem here. Clearly the Technics receiver is able to create better instrument separation and provide more treble extension. I'm definitely hearing details in the background I've never heard before! So literally the Ear seems to have be hiding details from me that I'm hearing now.
[tongue-in-cheek]It may be forgiving in the sense that it wants to keep me from being overwhelmed by too many details. Very kind of the little amp. Always concerned about my ability to cope with too many things going on in the music

[/tongue-in-cheek]
You could visualize (read: exaggerate) my impression by saying the Ear smudges the soundstage into a big blob of sound and moves it more to the center of the head while my Technics receiver seems to be able to bring out instruments and noises more as separate entities.
I understand that many head-fiers around here are sceptical when it comes to computers as source but I don't think the internal DAC of the Aureon is that bad at all. If anything, hooking it up to my Technics receiver has shown me that it is capable of more than the Rega showed me.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Davesrose /img/forum/go_quote.gif So have you just tried the Rega on your Technics CD player (using it's audio out)? I'd A/B that with your soundcard to see what you like most. If you still don't like the Rega's sound, you either need to get another amp or a better DAC. My inclination would be to work on a DAC.

Yes, I've done that before but it didn't really sound tremendously better than the CDP's headphone out. I think there was a tiny bit more fullness and lushness to the sound, but the different wasn't night and day.
I didn't do an A/B comparison, but I think my Aureon's DAC sounds better than the DAC inside the CDP. The details I'm hearing right now with the Aureon/Technics combo I have never heard before - even using the CDP as source.

 

[Davesrose]

Quote:

Originally Posted by big-ban /img/forum/go_quote.gif I'm not so sure the source is the big problem here. Clearly the Technics receiver is able to create better instrument separation and provide more treble extension. I'm definitely hearing details in the background I've never heard before! So literally the Ear seems to have be hiding details from me that I'm hearing now. [tongue-in-cheek]It may be forgiving in the sense that it wants to keep me from being overwhelmed by too many details. Very kind of the little amp. Always concerned about my ability to cope with too many things going on in the music [/tongue-in-cheek] You could visualize (read: exaggerate) my impression by saying the Ear smudges the soundstage into a big blob of sound and moves it more to the center of the head while my Technics receiver seems to be able to bring out instruments and noises more as separate entities. I understand that many head-fiers around here are sceptical when it comes to computers as source but I don't think the internal DAC of the Aureon is that bad at all. If anything, hooking it up to my Technics receiver has shown me that it is capable of more than the Rega showed me.

You would be surprised about the synergy of your source and amp.....especially with the HD650s. I love my HD650s, but I'm noticing they're very revealing/sensitive. I'll give my rig as an example. I first thought about getting an amp, and wound up with the HeadRoom MicroAmp. When I had it plugged into a regular CD player, or my laptop, the HD650s sound great through it. There's more mids and it's not "dark". For better or worst, I noticed that the DAC on my reciever was better then the DAC on my cheapy Sony CD player, so I decided to get a dedicated DAC. I wound up getting the excellent Benchmark DAC1, which brings my redbook CDs on a whole new level on liveliness. It has an internal amp that's rated for headphones up to 60 ohms. So it's not totally suited for 300ohm HD650s, but my HD650s get a rich extension and soundstage when plugged in it. If I have my microAmp plugged into the DAC1, my HD650s actually lose that soundstage and extension, and it sounds muffled compared to when the HR is plugged into my laptop. So I know I need a more powerful amp to handle this sweet source of a DAC1. I'll still be able to keep my MicroAmp as a portable amp though, since it seems to synergize well with my laptop and my portable stuff.

I'm sure the Rega Ear will sound better through the Rega Apollo CD player then your Technics amp, to give an extreme example. So even though the Ear doesn't sound so hot on your setup, doesn't mean it's necessarily a crappy amp. If you want to keep your soundcard, I'd suggest another amp then. IMO, my HeadRoom MicroAmp does go well with most soundcards.

 

[maarek99]

Rega Ear actually has very good synergy with the hd650 and I prefer it to some amps that are three times its cost.

But I once tried the Rega with a different and supposedly better psu and it sounded like s*it afterwards. The texture was totally gone. So I don't know if thats what you hear (lack of texture) but that was my experience. But when I went back to the regular psu it sounded great again.

Are you using the original psu? If not then that's probably where everything goes wrong.

I love this little amp. It was voiced for the 300ohm hd580/600 phones so it has a good synergy with the 650 too.

 

[Frihed89]

I bought one and even with a good source it is pretty crummy. The basic remedy is to change the 4 largest (input and output) caps with higher quality ones. Switching opamps can also help, but the caps do the most. Replacing the wallwart with a real power supply can be cheap or expensive depending on what is available in your country.

 

[big-ban]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Davesrose /img/forum/go_quote.gif I love my HD650s, but I'm noticing they're very revealing/sensitive.

I don't think they're THAT revealing/sensitive. Actually kind of the opposite - despite being very detailed, transparent and resolving, they never really throw flaws in recordings in your face. This is much more the case with the AD2000s (my new toy for christmas, review soon to come

) or the DT880s which are barely enjoyable with bad recordings.
Imo, what applies to recordings does apply to sources/amplification for the HD650s. They also sound quite good out of my portable unamped.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Davesrose /img/forum/go_quote.gif so I decided to get a dedicated DAC. I wound up getting the excellent Benchmark DAC1, which brings my redbook CDs on a whole new level on liveliness.

Oh I'm sure I would agree and I'd love to try that DAC, but the DAC alone costs even more than my ENTIRE setup. That's way out of my price range.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Davesrose /img/forum/go_quote.gif I'm sure the Rega Ear will sound better through the Rega Apollo CD player then your Technics amp, to give an extreme example. So even though the Ear doesn't sound so hot on your setup, doesn't mean it's necessarily a crappy amp. If you want to keep your soundcard, I'd suggest another amp then. IMO, my HeadRoom MicroAmp does go well with most soundcards.

I've been thinking about a DAC/AMP combo like the Corda Aria. I'm not so sure if its internal DAC will be able to beat the DAC of my Aureon 5.1 Sky though. The Audio-Technica HA25D also seems quite interesting as such a combo (especially because of the likely singery with the AD2000).
For the meantime I'm planning to keep that soundcard anyway. I'm really interested to try an excellent external DAC though - just to see how much of a difference it really is.

Quote:

Originally Posted by maarek99 /img/forum/go_quote.gif But I once tried the Rega with a different and supposedly better psu and it sounded like s*it afterwards. The texture was totally gone. So I don't know if thats what you hear (lack of texture) but that was my experience. But when I went back to the regular psu it sounded great again.

I wouldn't call it "lack of texture" but more "instrument smudging" and "blurred soundstage".

Quote:

Originally Posted by maarek99 /img/forum/go_quote.gif Are you using the original psu? If not then that's probably where everything goes wrong.

Yes, I'm using the original PSU. BUT as I mentioned in my first post, I cannot use it directly here in Germany. It has a different input voltage and doesn't fit the power sockets here. That's why I had to get a voltage converter.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frihed89 /img/forum/go_quote.gif I bought one and even with a good source it is pretty crummy. The basic remedy is to change the 4 largest (input and output) caps with higher quality ones. Switching opamps can also help, but the caps do the most. Replacing the wallwart with a real power supply can be cheap or expensive depending on what is available in your country.

I'm not much of an electric tinkerer and I have no idea how I would do that (soldering new caps etc.).
My original question was kinda aimed in that direction: could the voltage converter be causing the Ear to receive "crappy" current so that this might be the reason it doesn't sound exactly stellar?

 

[Skylab]

Quote:

Originally Posted by spacemanspliff /img/forum/go_quote.gif Personally, I really didn't like the Rega Ear at all. My Sony 1000ESD pre-amp headphone out kicked it's butt too.

I also disliked the Rega Ear. One of the flattest, dullest headphone amps I have ever tried, and I have tried a LOT.

 

[rain_uk]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skylab /img/forum/go_quote.gif I also disliked the Rega Ear. One of the flattest, dullest headphone amps I have ever tried, and I have tried a LOT.

Sold my Rega Ear last week, got £115 for it on eBay..

I found it lacked emotion & ryhthm compared to other amps (LD2/LD2++/PM17 etc), although I have to say that the soundstage was good for me and it was detailed and clear, but what good is that without the 'feeling'.... I used only with the original psu and partnered with the HD650/DT831 with 640c CD player/iPod 5g as source.

 

[rain_uk]

Quote:

Originally Posted by big-ban /img/forum/go_quote.gif The input voltage of the Ear is 24V, so maybe I could try to find a suitable 220V->24V wall wart?

This 24v AC/AC should be suitable...

 

[big-ban]

Quote:

Originally Posted by rain_uk /img/forum/go_quote.gif This 24v AC/AC should be suitable...

Hmm, thanks for the link, but my original PSU delivers 24V @ 0.3A (300mA). Wouldn't the 1.5A of that 24V version be a little much for the Ear?

Oh and is that PSU something special in your opinion? Because otherwise I could just keep looking for PSUs from German dealers to avoid excessive shipping fees.

 

[rain_uk]

Quote:

Originally Posted by big-ban /img/forum/go_quote.gif Hmm, thanks for the link, but my original PSU delivers 24V @ 0.3A (300mA). Wouldn't the 1.5A of that 24V version be a little much for the Ear? Oh and is that PSU something special in your opinion? Because otherwise I could just keep looking for PSUs from German dealers to avoid excessive shipping fees.

This psu has been recomended before, it used to be a 500mA one, its now been upgraded to 1.5A, the Rega will only draw the current that it requires..but if it needed it there's more on tap than the 250mA offered by the standard....
I've never used this supply (I stuck to the original) but it does meet the requirements (note AC/AC not AC/DC), I had the link as I found on another thread/forum that others were using this as an upgrade for the Rega Ear, it was mentioned then that the more mA the better, so I guess with the recent upgrade on this unit its better still..I cant find the other thread at this time.

edit: I've found one of the threads from back then..check out 'pbirkett' post "You need a 24v AC supply. Only 500 mA is required, but I got 1,000 mA for the extra headroom." Link
edit2: The other thread Link & Link2 - Enter 400-7077 in 'find products'

 

[maarek99]

Yeah, I read those too. I got a regulated psu with plenty of headroom but it didn't sound good at all. I actually bought another one from a different manufacturer in the hopes that it would actually do something other than spoil the sound. Nope. Changing the psu was more like a downgrade.

 

[rain_uk]

Sounds like I made the correct decision to stick with the suplied supply