[brentiful]

Hey all, this is my first head-fi post and I am a self-admitted newb to the audiophile world. So, here's my question: I just received my pair of "precision B-Stock refurbished" Hd 238's (via http://goo.gl/R9r3O), and I'm wondering whether they're likely to benefit from a burn in period. Through browsing around in this forum, I've read that a 100 hr burn does them wonders, however, that is for brand new headphones. So what about these B-stocks?
Also, as a little disclaimer, I'm aware that its likely that this can't be determined, simply because different components are replaced/fixed by the factory based on what is defective upon return. However, I've also got my fingers crossed optimistically that I will see some improvements in audio quality over time, ie burn in still benefits refurbed. Anybody care to weigh in? Thanks!

 

[anadin]

Forget about burn-in, if there are any changes along the way for better or worse then so be it.

 

[brentiful]

I'm not really sure that i'm following what you're saying.. are you simply getting at that my headphones suck?

 

[Eric_C]

No, he's saying that you should disregard what people say about burn-in. Are you saying that your headphones aren't good?

 

[jant71]

HD238 running unamped can sound pretty underwhelming depending on source. My bet is that they need more juice, not more burn-in.
 
Just like in Joker's thread..."Sound (7/10): First of all, the sound score I gave to the HD238 is based on running them through a mini3 portable amp – without it they would have scored lower as I personally prefer even the lower-end HD228 to an unamped HD238. I am not usually one to advocate for portable amplifiers but the HD238 is one headphone that is dreadfully mediocre when powered by a weaker portable player such as my Sansa Fuze or Clip."
 
He loaned me them and I agree 100%.  I'd return them if possible.

 

[brentiful]

Quote:

No, he's saying that you should disregard what people say about burn-in. Are you saying that your headphones aren't good?

 
I'm not saying my headphones aren't good at all. I'm simply saying that my unrefined ear-palate can't really differentiate at this point between absolute quality and not. Therefore, I'm left in doubt. Are they good, are they not good? Will they get better?
I'd rather know right off the bat what other audiophile veterans have to say about these bad boys so that I don't have to waste future untold hours scanning slickdeals.net for headphone deals wondering whether I made a good buy or not. Am I really doing my music justice?
For the record, amazons got the Sennheiser HD595's on sale for 129.99. I'm awfully tempted...
 
Quote:

HD238 running unamped can sound pretty underwhelming depending on source. My bet is that they need more juice, not more burn-in.

 
i've got mine running through these: creative sound blaster x-fi's (http://goo.gl/8ui4b). Think that suffices? 
 
Quote:

He loaned me them and I agree 100%.  I'd return them if possible.

 that's not what i was hoping to hear. I've read really decent reviews everywhere else, but i suppose you have to take the price point and other user-based variables into account. Also, I am planning on doing this foam removal/replacement mod http://www.head-fi.org/forum/thread/472413/sennheiser-hd238-brief-review-and-modding, which according to several has quite a profound effect. Anyways if you suggest returning, then whatdo you suggest replacing with. I've got a limited budget, but am willing to spend up to around $100 if I absolutely know that I'm not going to be regretting anything and the phones will last me several years. As far as use: its music listening. I listen to everything from hip hop to folk to indie rock to electronica and all the in betweens. I really want something that's well-rounded and immersive. 
Also, comfort is an issue. I tried the grado sr80's but that foam and harsh head band drove me insane so back to the amazon they went.
 
Thanks all!

 

[jant71]

I'm all for trying all things and not giving up on a phone till you've tried all you can to get the most out of them. Do you like the sound in general? Read up on the mod results and if that matches what you feel is missing. You do sound a bit unsatisfied even if you are not sure exactly why.
 
Synergy with the X-fi is important. The Senn may be too dark. Did you like the sound of the SR80's with it? You have a valuable comparison there help figure things out more. The Grado vs. Senn sound is a good search topic with plenty of opinions/impressions to help fill in the blanks.
 
I'm all for up the budget and getting the better can. Better off in the longer run. As you say, no regret and for the long run(a couple years perhaps). It sounds like you just have to figure out more what sound you really want in order to pick the right one. There are some good choices on Amazon for up to $100 or a bit more if you want to stretch a bit. But good is only half of it since preference is the other half. Plenty of good cans out there. Doesn't mean you'll like them. Something like the Creative Aurvana Live/Denon D1001(maybe the new 1100 as well) is a good all rounder that is affordable and comfy as well.
 
Read Joker's portable thread and Skylabs(http://www.head-fi.org/forum/thread/250041/review-5-sub-150-sealed-headphone-compared). Plenty of good info and may reveal some choices you may like.

 

[Madpierrot]

I have a pair of the HD238 and while I prefer the Koss PortaPros I think the HD238's have a lot of detail but are on the dark/bass heavy side. Burn-in will tame the bass some, but don't expect miracles. The sound signature you hear when new isn't going to change, it'll just become refined. The mods on the link you posted definitely help and using a small amp like the FiiO e5 will also tighten up the bass and widen the soundstage, but for $100 you can get better cans depending on how portable you need them to be. The Philips HP1000 is considered the poor-man's HD600 and can be found for about $100 on the for sale forums and there were previously a few posted on Amazon. ATH-M50 are fantastic and versatile but recently had a price increase but with some sleuthing you should be able to find them for near $100 (quick google search for ATH M50 yeilded a $109 price) And just about every head-fier will recommend Grado SR60s as a good entry level headphone. The new Klipsch Image One has some mixed reviews but should outdo the HD238 and on the head-fi homepage the Skullcandy Aviators received high marks, but both of these are possibly out of your range (~$150).

 

[brentiful]

I'm actually not really looking for something that would necessarily be considered "portable". My intended primary use is to have a set of home cans for use with my pc. Other than that, my main concern is price. A friend of mine lent me his Sony MDR 7506's which i've been using side-by-side with my hd238s and I've really been able to see a difference. the sonys offer a far wider range of sound with much more clarity and detail. also, the sound stage feels a bit bigger. I did however find that the highs were piercingly high on certain tracks with the sony's. I've also been using my sony mdr ex300 (in ears) as a point of reference. Having this kind of quality comparison has been quite helpful and has led me to be not so satisfied with the hd238s which i'll probably be returning (or selling) pretty soon.
 
In light of that, I just ordered a pair of sennheiser 555 (also refurbished) as a viable replacement pair and then doing the felt-removal mod. I figure now's maybe a good a time to consider ordering several pairs, though, and simply comparing/contrasting the lot of them until i find my favorite and then sending back the others. I'm giving a lot of consideration right now to the audio technica ath ad700s and the sennheiser hd280s, but haven't pulled the trigger on either one yet. The sennheiser hd595s have likewise been a potential option for me, but they're a little more than i'm ideally wanting to spend (130USD new and 100 used online)--I've read all over the place the the felt-removal mod for the 555's produces a near 595 sound experience which, at half the price seems pretty good. Anyone have any experience with the post-modded 555 compared to the 595s? 
 
Suggestions/opinions for good ~100 (or less) not-necessarily portable phones?
Also what are yall's thoughts on going refurbed when it comes to headphones? too risky or great deal?
And lastly, i mentioned before that i've got the creative x-fi external soundcard that i'm running my headphones through. is this a decent source to be running headphones through or should i be considering a different headphone amp? again, i really don't want to break the bank here. 
Thanks!

 

[Madpierrot]

All the Sennheisers you listed are good although I'm not sure about the HD280. The Senn sound signature is a little on the dark/veiled side which typically makes for a smooth listening experience. I've also heard good things about the ATH-AD700.
 
It really comes down to what you want these headphones to do. Are you using them for gaming? Music? If so what type? When people ask somewhat blind for recommendations I usually toss out Sennheiser HD25 ($200) or Audiotechnica M50 ($100-$170). If you're looking into getting a serious pair of headphones you're better off pushing your budget a little higher. Here are two good threads from |joker| to get started on some research:
 
http://www.head-fi.org/forum/thread/250041/review-5-sub-150-sealed-headphone-compared
http://www.head-fi.org/forum/thread/433318/shootout-65-portable-headphones-reviewed-tdk-wr700-akg-k430-added-01-08
 
Instead of going refurbished you might also consider the for-sale forums here on head-fi. People generally take good care of their cans, they'll have proper burn-in and sometimes they'll have mods already done to them.
 
As for your source, the Soundblaster should have a good DAC on it and it's amp should do a decent job driving the cans you listed. The thing you'll notice most with a decent amp is volume. As you get deeper into equipment you'll find that the high end stuff takes a lot of juice. The Sennheiser HD555 is rated at 50ohm (unless you got the 120ohm model) and should get pretty loud just from your soundcard. Other benefits that an amp brings are tightening up the bass, making the music feel more dynamic and widening the soundstage - these are all improvements things most non-head-fiers can't hear. Again I'd recommend getting the FiiO e5 ($20) for use with your soundcard/headphones. It's a fantastic little amp and the price can't be beat - if you want to go one up the FiiO e7 is probably the second most affordable amp at ~$100.

 

[brentiful]

Quote:

It really comes down to what you want these headphones to do. Are you using them for gaming? Music? If so what type? When people ask somewhat blind for recommendations I usually toss out Sennheiser HD25 ($200) or Audiotechnica M50 ($100-$170). 

 
I'm basically only interested in headphones for music. As far as what kind of music, well just about everything... bluegrass to hip hop, electronica, folk, indie rock, and more. I checked out both of your suggestions, and while the ath m50's are really appealing to me, they're currently listed at a little higher than what my price range should permit (the hd25s are just flat out beyond my price range). Although, I must say, with all the research and stressing that i've put into this, maybe I should just opt up and then enjoy my investment for years to come... The cheapest I found the ath50's at was around $120 USD. Which again, is quite tempting, but with the Senn 595s--cans which i've heard lots of good things about, but never actually listened to--being listed at approximately the same price I'm kind of torn. If i'm to exceed my original budget, which pair should win out? Do you have any experience with the two pairs?
 
Oh god, this is starting to get a very slippery slope feel to it already...

 

[Madpierrot]

The M50s are DJ headphones with heavy bass (and great treble). They'll feel more aggressive and dynamic but can get fatiguing after a an hour or two, while the Sennheisers should feel a bit more musical with more body, much wider soundstage and would be more comfortable for long listening sessions. As your first pair of higher end headphones they're both a vast improvement over the HD238 and will likely impress.
 
The first step is a tough one to take. If you're uncertain then your original idea of buying several cans and returning the others might be best. Certain Guitar Centers will carry high end headphones (just do a search for a headphone on their website and it will list stores that carry it) and they SHOULD let you demo them. They have a policy that doesn't allow customers to demo or return earphones - but over the ear headphones should be allowed. If they say otherwise I believe the policy is on their website. That would be a good place to play with some cans. Just bring your own source and music. Another good place is an Apple Store. I know they carry the Klispch Image One which has gotten some good reviews.
 
I haven't experienced the HD595s but I've enjoyed the HD600 and if they're similar then the experience should be sublime. The HD238 are more aggressive (especially on the bass) than most Sennheisers. Both choices are a step in the right direction before you start to refine your tastes.