[Coltrane]

Quote:

Originally Posted by itsborken /img/forum/go_quote.gif Which musicians followers were murdering other musicians? Where was all the talk of beotches and hos? I must have selective hearing so please, enlighten me.

Very selective indeed. There have been dozens of hip-hop/rap artists mentioned as examples of great music being made in hip hop. Please show an example where any o them talk about beotches or glorify murder.

 

[itsborken]

Quote:

Originally Posted by fhuang /img/forum/go_quote.gif does it have to be playing it with an instrument to show he or she know music?

I believe so. I know music, put together playlists of others music, have played several instruments in my youth, can read sheet music, but I don't consider myself a musician. If I walked down the street and picked out an appetizer, main course, veggies, desert from four different restaurants, that doesn't make me a chef.

Voice is an instrument, but I would classify the 'rap/hip hop vocals' more as poetry. Talking fast/shouting in sync with a beat isn't music to me (visual/language arts would be a better description). Variations on pitch, cadence, structure, that is what music is about in my opinion.

It's your call if this is a stupid thread or not. IMO, there's no such thing as a stupid thread if someone learns *something* from it.

 

[JadeEast]

Without even thinking Phil Spector comes to mind as far as
killers.

 

[itsborken]

Quote:

Originally Posted by JadeEast /img/forum/go_quote.gif Without even thinking Phil Spector comes to mind as far as killers.

What group was his girlfriend in again? I didn't think we were talking about domestic violence but I guess I have to give you points there that treating women as hos is domestic violence of a sort.

 

[itsborken]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coltrane /img/forum/go_quote.gif Very selective indeed. There have been dozens of hip-hop/rap artists mentioned as examples of great music being made in hip hop. Please show an example where any o them talk about beotches or glorify murder.

I guess you don't want to answer my question i.e. you realize your mischaracterization was going nowhere.

 

[fhuang]

Quote:

Originally Posted by itsborken /img/forum/go_quote.gif I believe so. I know music, put together playlists of others music, have played several instruments in my youth, can read sheet music, but I don't consider myself a musician. If I walked down the street and picked out an appetizer, main course, veggies, desert from four different restaurants, that doesn't make me a chef. Voice is an instrument, but I would classify the 'rap/hip hop vocals' more as poetry. Talking fast/shouting in sync with a beat isn't music to me (visual/language arts would be a better description). Variations on pitch, cadence, structure, that is what music is about in my opinion. It's your call if this is a stupid thread or not. IMO, there's no such thing as a stupid thread if someone learns *something* from it.

suppose artistic director or any conductor doesn't know any music because they never use any instrument do they?

using a computer/type writer to type or write doesn't mean you're an arthor. i can telnet to a switch or a router to check/show things doesn't mean i'm a network administrator neither.

i wonder how many people here actually learn thing(s) from this thread.

 

[JadeEast]

I just read your original question and Mr. Spector doesn't
qualify as an answer to your question. I was wrong.

The problem that I have with this question is that it
is so difficult to lay criteria for a real judgment of the
" musical validity ". Attempt to make this judgment just
seems to be clouded with the shadow of subtle racism
on one side and political correctness on the other.

Examining the behavior of an artist a far as a validity
of art is concerned would rarely happen in the visual
arts. With the focus of Hip Hop on the MCs bigger than
life persona this it is harder to separate the artist from
their creation.

People have not always liked new sounds.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Classical_music_riot

 

[Coltrane]

Quote:

Originally Posted by itsborken /img/forum/go_quote.gif I guess you don't want to answer my question i.e. you realize your mischaracterization was going nowhere.

It was a leading/rhetorical question. Everyone on here knows that the elements you are mentioning are found predominantly among a certain subsection of rap/hip-hop. Although I must confess I do not know what you mean by my 'mischaracterization."

If a drummer is a musician, then so is a rapper. The point in much rap is not melody or pitch, but rhythm. There is absolutely no denying that a great many rappers utilize quite complex rhythmic patterns in their raps.

 

[3000]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Metaphysical /img/forum/go_quote.gif I fear that this is the case with most of the people in here verbally bashing "rap music". The music they play on the radio is NOT HIP-HOP! Hip-pop is ruining real hip-hop. Also, I can't believe some of you are actually saying "I HATE rap. The stuff on the radio is horrible and I have no interest in listening to anymore rap because of it." GIVE THESE A WATCH/LISTEN: Atmosphere - God Loves Ugly Gym Class Heroes - Papercuts Common - Be Common - I Used to Love H.E.R. Eyedea - Even Shadows Have Shadows(Ignore the video for this one. ) Jedi Mind Tricks - I Who Have Nothing You truly have to have an open mind and lay all of your assumptions to rest or else you'll be stuck spinning your tires in the mud, not getting anywhere.

Come on, Common and Gym Class Heroes aren't even close to the "real hip-hop". They are only making money, not music (at least, I don't call it that way). Also, I don't know Eyedea so I can't comment on that artist. I do know Atmosphere and Jedi Mind Tricks, but they never gave me goosebumps while listening. This is probably because I don't like them, I don't own a single cd of them because of this.

 

[Metaphysical]

Quote:

Originally Posted by 3000 /img/forum/go_quote.gif Come on, Common and Gym Class Heroes aren't even close to the "real hip-hop". They are only making money, not music (at least, I don't call it that way). Also, I don't know Eyedea so I can't comment on that artist. I do know Atmosphere and Jedi Mind Tricks, but they never gave me goosebumps while listening. This is probably because I don't like them, I don't own a single cd of them because of this.

How can you say common and gym class aren't close to real hip hop? Common is a great MC and is almost up there with Kweli and Mos. Gym Class uses a live band and Travis, the MC, is great. How is that not music? Did you watch the video?

edit: Also, what MC's/songs are you talking about that give you goosebumps?

 

[itsborken]

Quote:

Originally Posted by fhuang /img/forum/go_quote.gif suppose artistic director or any conductor doesn't know any music because they never use any instrument do they?

Well, I would say a conductor knows the nuances of music far better than I. Probably plays a number of instruments so in that regard I'd say they are a musician. Philosophically, is conducting being a musician? How about someone manning a sound board? Good question, I don't know the answer to that.

 

[itsborken]

Quote:

Originally Posted by fhuang /img/forum/go_quote.gif using a computer/type writer to type or write doesn't mean you're an arthor. i can telnet to a switch or a router to check/show things doesn't mean i'm a network administrator neither.

You sly devil, are you trying to prove my point?

 

[shplorgh]

Quote:

I have no love of Kenny G or John Tesh but at least they can play their chosen instrument tolerably well and can compose their own work.

That's such a ridiculous argument. There's no way Kenny G could compose something like this.

 

[itsborken]

Quote:

Originally Posted by JadeEast /img/forum/go_quote.gif The problem that I have with this question is that it is so difficult to lay criteria for a real judgment of the " musical validity ".

That's the truth. In the interest of keeping an open mind I'm listening to whats on the radio to reform an opinion. Its been pretty pop-female vocalists so far but you are right, no 'mow down the neighborhood with a machine gun' stuff.

Quote:

Examining the behavior of an artist a far as a validity of art is concerned would rarely happen in the visual arts. With the focus of Hip Hop on the MCs bigger than life persona this it is harder to separate the artist from their creation.

Don't know about that; Andy Warhol, the 'artist' smearing crap on Jesus, depictions of Mohammed ticking off the Moslem world... But I agree there's a problem separating the art from the individual.

 

[litlharsh]

Quote:

Originally Posted by itsborken /img/forum/go_quote.gif That's the truth. In the interest of keeping an open mind I'm listening to whats on the radio to reform an opinion. Its been pretty pop-female vocalists so far but you are right, no 'mow down the neighborhood with a machine gun' stuff.

There's your number one problem. And for the rap/hip-hop categorization, rap is a music, Hip-hop is a culture.