[greenhorn]

Quote:

Originally Posted by rodbac Don't bother- Pinkie was just fcking with you.

Well...

http://www5.head-fi.org/forums/showthread.php?t=69658

 

[tomek]

Quote:

Originally Posted by rodbac Man, I check back in for some giggles and the fourth post I read gets my goat- I'm pathetic...: Tomek, here's the thing: for us to accept that the tin foil has made a difference, we would also have to accept that the color of your socks might have also had something to do with it (for reasons I'll give you below), so then where are we left? IOW, by claiming that it does nothing to the music itself, but only to your perception, you're explaining nothing that your socks couldn't also explain. It's pointless to post your "impressions" as if they have any meaning to anybody but yourself. FIRST PROBLEM: It seems some here want to be able to claim their opinions are above reproach because the whole thing is in their head (it was your perception and therefore can't be dismissed), yet take offense to being told that the foil (or whatever) did absolutely nothing to the music (that it was all in their head)! If you think of it being in your head (it was all your perception) as a positive, so be it, but don't get all indignant when others rightfully point out that it means nothing to anybody else because it was all in your head. SECOND PROBLEM: Digital audio is NOT quantum theory, some mysterious field where we're only beginning to understand the mechanisms- it's quite basic and very well understood, ie. we're not guessing how this stuff works! The laser that reads the 1s and 0s on the CD can't see the foil, and it doesn't read atmospheric light inside the chamber. It is impossible for it to have any effect whatsoever on the sound, unless it's throwing off the balance of the CD causing it to not read at all. Further, even if the foil was able to be somehow read by the laser, do you think the spectral lines would somehow communicate something intelligible to the electronics, "opening up the soundstage"? Read up on the difference between "open minded" and "gullible", and think hard how it might apply to something like this. Next, read up on how CD players work. Then, go take a class in one of the following subjects at your local JC: critical thinking, beginning philosophy, or forensics, and maybe even a couple low-level science courses so the purpose and rationale behind the scientific method will be explained to you (and you won't think those who insist on it being at least loosely applied are just doing so to be a-holes). Don't bother- Pinkie was just fcking with you.

I appreciate your suggestion that I enroll myself in a junior college, but I think it's you that needs to enroll in grade school to learn how to read.

At no point do your two so called 'problems' relate to anything that I said. I don't think Pinkie is upset that others can't verify his claims when they try rainbow foil. In fact, several have actually tried it and the blind tests are quite surprising. I think he has taken offence to the type of comments he has been faced with after posting that he heard a difference.

as for your second problem, I have no idea why you are explaining to me how a cd player works. i never claimed that the rainbow foil did anything to the cd player at all. the open mindedness that i refered to was in considering that there might be more to enjoying audio than the gear itself. what is called 'placebo' by us and seems like just a nuisance that gets in the way of our determing which equipment is better could actually be looked at more closely as an effect worth studying itself.

it's quite amazing to see the degree and consistency of difference that expensive cables make when A/B'd they make no difference at all.

all I'm saying is that there is a lot more out there, and we should be intrigued by Pinkie's findings and his efforts to report what he found instead of taking this chance to jump all over him and insult him and any idea that strays from what we're used to.

And as for the difference between gullible and openminded, i'd like to remind you that all i'm asking is you consider the possibility that you can approach audio from another angle. I guess all the people that have received free samples of rainbow foil are GULLIBLE?

EDIT: My cable comment was a reference to the recent threads about some headfi members who have experienced differences in cables only to lose those differences when the cables were A/B'd blind.

 

[PinkFloyd]

Quote:

Originally Posted by tomek I appreciate your suggestion that I enroll myself in a junior college, but I think it's you that needs to enroll in grade school to learn how to read.

Good point tomek, it seems to me that certain people are just here to jump in with silly comments / observations and have not actually read what this thread is all about. They are selective perceivers who filter out anything that may be informative and only home in on sentences that they think they can quote and ridicule. We are adding fuel to their campaign by replying to them and I feel it prudent that their comments go unrecognised unless they have something constructive to add to this thread. If these people were talking from experience and had actually tried a "free" sample then their comments would be appreciated. It's easy for someone to say "rainbow foil is a joke" without trying it, it's also easy for someone to say "God doesn't exist" though a lot of people feel the presence of God in their lives even though he / she is an invisible force (I don't believe there is a God by the way but that's by the by)


Quote:

Originally Posted by tomek At no point do your two so called 'problems' relate to anything that I said. I don't think Pinkie is upset that others can't verify his claims when they try rainbow foil. In fact, several have actually tried it and the blind tests are quite surprising. I think he has taken offence to the type of comments he has been faced with after posting that he heard a difference.

I'm not promoting Rainbow foil, I'm presenting my findings as "I" found them. If it works for people then great but if others can't hear any difference then that's equally cool....... ces't la vie. Everybody is different and people have different expectations and experiences of products........ I'd rather read 100 posts from people who have tried the Rainbow foil saying it is "crap" than read 1 post from a joker who "assumes" it doesn't do anything based on nothing other than his / her imagination.


Quote:

Originally Posted by tomek as for your second problem, I have no idea why you are explaining to me how a cd player works. i never claimed that the rainbow foil did anything to the cd player at all. the open mindedness that i refered to was in considering that there might be more to enjoying audio than the gear itself. what is called 'placebo' by us and seems like just a nuisance that gets in the way of our determing which equipment is better could actually be looked at more closely as an effect worth studying itself.

I very much doubt Rodbec could explain what a capacitor does, let alone write a theosis (in his own words) on the inner workings of a CD player but I'd love Rodbec to prove me wrong on that one.


Quote:

Originally Posted by tomek it's quite amazing to see the degree and consistency of difference that expensive cables make when A/B'd they make no difference at all.

Can't comment on that one tomek

Quote:

Originally Posted by tomek all I'm saying is that there is a lot more out there, and we should be intrigued by Pinkie's findings and his efforts to report what he found instead of taking this chance to jump all over him and insult him and any idea that strays from what we're used to.

Criticism from those armed with their experience of a certain product is, not only, accepted but is welcomed. Ill informed statements from people who's comments originate from their imagination are ignored, unless their imagination is imaginative and then they will be considered............ Thing is, there is really no reason for the imagination to play a part in this as PWB are offering "free" samples so everyone here has the opportunity to try the Rainbow foil...... I can't understand the need to "assume" when the stuff is free to try

Quote:

Originally Posted by tomek And as for the difference between gullible and openminded, i'd like to remind you that all i'm asking is you consider the possibility that you can approach audio from another angle. I guess all the people that have received free samples of rainbow foil are GULLIBLE?

The people that received free samples are far from gullible! They've got some Rainbow foil and a re-usable jiffy bag (if nothing else) and have been treated to an enjoyable head-fi thread. The naysayers have even been hooked on this thread....... Biggest thread in cables, power, tweaks ever...... "power of the rainbow", "divine intervention", "The power of the almighty" or "pot luck"? think about it

Pinkie.

 

[rodbac]

Tomek says “At no point do your two so called 'problems' relate to anything that I said”, so let’s explore it:

Earlier Tomek called naysayers (presumably not just in this thread) “arrogant and snobbish”. Rather than take him to task for inappropriately harsh language for people who point out that it’s impossible for a piece of tape on the label side of a CD to affect the sound, I skip that and go straight to a simple paragraph to explain to him what the problem is with his contention that there is something to test (considering how everyone else has already stated it’s all perception and that the tape does precisely nothing) and why his “test” results would be exactly as much use to us as his toenail clippings. So I will grant him this one- I should have explained more thoroughly why his "arrogant and snobbish" comment was misplaced and that I was explaining why.

Then Tomek stated that he was reading a book about scientists whose genius wasn’t realized until long after their death (presumably when we finally gained an understanding of their chosen subjects and realized they were right all along). I then explained that in 2004 a CD player and digital sound reproduction is not a field we’re just beginning to understand, that we understand the mechanism very, very well and aren’t guessing that the tape will make no difference- we KNOW it won’t.

So it’s my reading comprehension that needs to be honed, huh? If you still think so, I’ll head back to 4th grade immediately…

And, yes, Tomek- I AM saying that anybody who thinks rainbow foil on the label side of a CD can affect the sound in any positive way is indeed gullible.

Quote:

I very much doubt Rodbec could explain what a capacitor does, let alone write a theosis (in his own words) on the inner workings of a CD player but I'd love Rodbec to prove me wrong on that one.

No “theosis” from me, Pinkie- I’m guessing about all of it. You mysterious music machines confuse and frighten me- it reads WHAT? With a what? Is it light- is it sound?? I don’t know!!! Man, I'm SO far out of my league...

Hasta boys. That's all for now.

 

[ooheadsoo]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ipodstudio Darn, is this thread still going?? Well, with 11,000 views at least the entire community now knows about Rainbow Foil..

Haha, my sentiments exactly.

 

[radrd]

Quote:

Originally Posted by tomek I do wish that people would put aside their arrogant, snobbish attitudes for just one minute and consider the possiblity that factors affecting our enjoyment of the music do extend beyond only engineering/tech factors. It takes only a very brief reflection to realize that the enjoyment of your music varies from day to day while the electrical/mechanical reproductive elements have stayed the same. There's something to that so I think that posterity will show that Belt was onto something, even if his exact methods may not be perfect.

I won't discount the placebo effect. I just think you people are morons for embracing it in this fashion. In fact, I love the placebo effect. I know that my music sounds better when I am in a good mood, and I know it sounds better with I am looking at a sunset or even (potentially) looking at a piece of rainbow foil if you want. It sounds better at night too, as well as when I'm not tired.

But that doesn't mean I'm going to believe in a bunch of bullsh*t about negative and positive energy affecting my mind. My mind affects itself. Period. (Unless I were drunk or high of course, which is measurable through real science)

I'd rather listen to music and watch the sun go down than waste time and eventually money pasting foil all over my gear, not to mention supporting some scam artist, but YMMV.

And don't give me any crap about my hypocrisy because I don't believe that cables generally make a difference either.

 

[eric343]

Quote:

Originally Posted by rodbac I then explained that in 2004 a CD player and digital sound reproduction is not a field we’re just beginning to understand, that we understand the mechanism very, very well and aren’t guessing that the tape will make no difference- we KNOW it won’t.

BS... anyone who thinks we know everything about anything is wrong. First rule of science...

Just ask any fresh-out-of-college EE whether high-fidelity interconnnects could POSSIBLY sound any better than coathangers.

Seriously, though, I suspect that the rainbow foil is indeed a placebo effect, and that more testing under better controlled testing is necessary to authoritatively prove it one way or another.

With that said, however, your abrasive attitude (though well-intentioned) isn't helping anything. There are two articles in the latest issue of Skeptical Inquirer that deal very well with this topic; I highly recommend that everyone in this thread pick up a copy. It's an excellent magazine (cover aside) in general, too -- speaking as someone with a subscription.

 

[tomek]

Quote:

Originally Posted by rodbac Earlier Tomek called naysayers (presumably not just in this thread) “arrogant and snobbish”. Rather than take him to task for inappropriately harsh language for people who point out that it’s impossible for a piece of tape on the label side of a CD to affect the sound, I skip that and go straight to a simple paragraph to explain to him what the problem is with his contention that there is something to test (considering how everyone else has already stated it’s all perception and that the tape does precisely nothing) and why his “test” results would be exactly as much use to us as his toenail clippings.

Hey, Rodbac, it doesn't help when you make an unjustified, presumptuos statement like this. My comment about what I thought was 'arrogant and snobbish' was not directed at people that didn't think rainbow foil could affect sound, but at those who wouldn't consider the possibilty that audio enjoyment extends beyond the realm of the gear itself.

Perhaps the problem hear really is your inability to read exactly what was written without filling in the subtext with your own prejudices?


Quote:

Originally Posted by rodbac Then Tomek stated that he was reading a book about scientists whose genius wasn’t realized until long after their death (presumably when we finally gained an understanding of their chosen subjects and realized they were right all along). I then explained that in 2004 a CD player and digital sound reproduction is not a field we’re just beginning to understand, that we understand the mechanism very, very well and aren’t guessing that the tape will make no difference- we KNOW it won’t.

Once again, I never implied that the rainbow foil acted directly upon the cd player. However, I agree with Eric that it's quite foolish to think we know everything and I wonder why every year companies continue to make new players when there is nothing new to learn.

My reference to the book about scientists was about paradigm shifts, which are rarely recognized and appreciated in their time. I was suggesting that Peter Belt's work could be considered a paradigm shift because it looks at audio from an entirely new direction.


Quote:

Originally Posted by rodbac And, yes, Tomek- I AM saying that anybody who thinks rainbow foil on the label side of a CD can affect the sound in any positive way is indeed gullible.

Well, here we disagree. I took 5 seconds to write an email to Peter Belt and two days later I had a free sample of Rainbow Foil airmailed from the UK. It cost me nothing and it was interesting to try. I did have an open mind because I read several articles about it which surprisingly showed a positive benefit.

I don't think you need to take your skeptics high ground with me because if you've ever read any of my posts you'd know that I don't believe in anything just because people have recommended it and I don't fall for the trends and fads of Head-Fi.

 

[tomek]

Quote:

Originally Posted by eric343 BS... anyone who thinks we know everything about anything is wrong. First rule of science... Just ask any fresh-out-of-college EE whether high-fidelity interconnnects could POSSIBLY sound any better than coathangers. Seriously, though, I suspect that the rainbow foil is indeed a placebo effect, and that more testing under better controlled testing is necessary to authoritatively prove it one way or another. With that said, however, your abrasive attitude (though well-intentioned) isn't helping anything. There are two articles in the latest issue of Skeptical Inquirer that deal very well with this topic; I highly recommend that everyone in this thread pick up a copy. It's an excellent magazine (cover aside) in general, too -- speaking as someone with a subscription.

Which month's issue is this? I just got my subscription, but I'm not sure if it will include the magazine you're talking about.

 

[Earwax]

Quote:

Originally Posted by PinkFloyd This thread was originally intended as a belated April fools joke but the longer it went on, the more I realised how Head-fi was lacking in new ideas / content etc. The thread is barely one month old yet it's had 11,000 views and 353 replies does that show you how stale the Sennheiser debate on Head-Fi had become? IMO Rainbow foil is nothing more than "tin foil" and Peter Belt is a jester, A Jester who offered free samples nonetheless and he must be respected for that. This thread has been a diversion from the norm and I trust it has been informative and entertaining. Pinkie.

It may have started as an April Fools joke, but I thought it developed into a challenge to both the "believers" and "skeptics" groups to re-examine their usual assumptions.

I never thought it was a simple attempt to poke fun at anyone.

 

[PinkFloyd]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Earwax It may have started as an April Fools joke, but I thought it developed into a challenge to both the "believers" and "skeptics" groups to re-examine their usual assumptions. I never thought it was a simple attempt to poke fun at anyone.

Yawn......... read the 2 posts "after" the one you have quoted above.

Cheers

 

[Earwax]

Quote:

Originally Posted by tomek Anyways, it's very entertaining to see guys with 400 dollar interconnects calling you an idiot for using a free tweak.

 

[PinkFloyd]

Quote:

Originally Posted by rodbac So it’s my reading comprehension that needs to be honed, huh? If you still think so, I’ll head back to 4th grade immediately…

Rodbec,

You refer to "school" quite a lot as if it's the be all and end all and what you were taught in school is written in stone. School gives you the basics but doesn't allow you to think, there are set questions and set answers.

You develop your own opinions and ideas after leaving school so don't keep referring to all the set pieces you were taught at school...... take it a step further and start thinking for yourself.

Just because you pass a driving test doesn't make you a good driver.... it means you have displayed the "basics" to an examiner and are allowed on the road if you pass your test. It's then up to you to either become a great driver or a hazard to other road users. your driving skills will only get better through "your" experience on the road..... nobody can teach you to be a good driver. Similarly, nobody can teach you life skills....... you have to learn them yourself. Eventually, you'll forget all the crap you were "taught" at school and will learn from your experience of life.

Pinkie.

 

[10068]

This thread is still alive and kickin? JEEZ.

The next post needs to be something SO awful that the thread gets closed. I think having a thread like this closed @ 420 posts would be apt for such a silly topic.

 

[PinkFloyd]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nigel Pinkie, Can you truthfully detect any differences in sound quality using the Rainbow Foil?

Yes Nigel,

I wouldn't have said I heard a difference if there was no difference. I think you know by now that I say it as I see it and I don't paper over the cracks or sensationalise or embellish things. I call a spade a spade and, generally, despise marketing BS and rip off merchants and do my best to expose to the world how audiophiles are being ripped of left right and centre by "audio boutiques" and "audio manufacturers" who are flogging a box of £40 electronics for £****

I'm surprised, you of all people, should ask that question. On this occasion, I commented on a "free" sample which worked for me and thought I'd share it with Head-Fi. Nobody, apart from PWB, can lose (PWB spent £6 on postage alone sending me the Free sample along with a bundle of info)

Mike.