pataburd
Headphoneus Supremus
The Mullard 6080 are here. They sound much richer and more detailed and refined than the 5998, IMHO. : )
(Proposed) Darkvoice 337 Dedicated Tube-rolling Thread
- Thread starter pataburd
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Skylab
Reviewerus Prolificus
Really? Richer? My main complaint about 6080's is that they tecn to sound lean. Maybe I need to try the Mullards
pataburd
Headphoneus Supremus
Sky,
Reiterating, the Mullard 6080 were the only 6080 I ever liked with the 336i, and the same is proving true with the 337.
Between the GE 6080, the RCA 6AS7G black plate, the Svetlana 6H13C, the Tung-Sol 5998 and the Mullards, I've enjoyed the Mullards the most with the 337 so far (they're paired with the JAN Philips 6SJ7WGT right now--and I expect even better from the JAN Sylvania VT-116A).
While the Tung-Sols are more muscular and assuming (with perhaps tighter bass control), the Mullards seem to "fill in all the cracks" and bring more delicacy and refinement, IMHE. They temper that overly stark bent--to my ears, anyway--of the 337. The Svetlana strike an equitable and enjoyable middle ground between the Tung-Sol and the Mullard, IMHO. My guess is that the RCA 6AS7 gray plates would probably fall on the softer side of the Mullards, but still lack the ultimate midrange adequacy of the latter.
Right now my order of power tube preference, from most-to-least is:
Mullard 6080, Svetlana 6H13C, Tung-Sol 5998, RCA 6AS7G black plate, GE 6080.
PAB
Reiterating, the Mullard 6080 were the only 6080 I ever liked with the 336i, and the same is proving true with the 337.
Between the GE 6080, the RCA 6AS7G black plate, the Svetlana 6H13C, the Tung-Sol 5998 and the Mullards, I've enjoyed the Mullards the most with the 337 so far (they're paired with the JAN Philips 6SJ7WGT right now--and I expect even better from the JAN Sylvania VT-116A).
While the Tung-Sols are more muscular and assuming (with perhaps tighter bass control), the Mullards seem to "fill in all the cracks" and bring more delicacy and refinement, IMHE. They temper that overly stark bent--to my ears, anyway--of the 337. The Svetlana strike an equitable and enjoyable middle ground between the Tung-Sol and the Mullard, IMHO. My guess is that the RCA 6AS7 gray plates would probably fall on the softer side of the Mullards, but still lack the ultimate midrange adequacy of the latter.
Right now my order of power tube preference, from most-to-least is:
Mullard 6080, Svetlana 6H13C, Tung-Sol 5998, RCA 6AS7G black plate, GE 6080.
PAB
pataburd
Headphoneus Supremus
The Darkvoice 337 is tubed w/2x JAN Sylvania VT-116A and 2x Mullard 6080: easily the best combination I've tried so far with the 337.
The D2000 sound nearly flawless with these tubes onboard. The HD600 sounds excellent, too, but not nearly as enjoyable as the Denon. The K501 sound better, but still far from their potential. I've concluded that the DV337 is not an adequate match for the K501.
The D2000 sound nearly flawless with these tubes onboard. The HD600 sounds excellent, too, but not nearly as enjoyable as the Denon. The K501 sound better, but still far from their potential. I've concluded that the DV337 is not an adequate match for the K501.
pataburd
Headphoneus Supremus
Ran the Mullard 6080s w/the JAN Philips 6SJ7WGTs on an intermediate home rig (the Bada's down with a blown FET--my bad). The JAN Sylvania VT-116As sound better than the JAN Philips, IMHO. The Mullards absolutely "slaughter" the RCA 6AS7G, IMHO. And that goes double for the GE 6080. Will run the 5998s tomorrow night, God willing. I don't think they'll better the Mullards, though. We'll see--er, hear.
Also, since the 337 runs griddle hot--maybe hotter than the Bada, if that's possible, I trained a 12" fan (set on low) on the Darkvoice(!). The amp stayed cool to the touch and sounded great. : )
Also, since the 337 runs griddle hot--maybe hotter than the Bada, if that's possible, I trained a 12" fan (set on low) on the Darkvoice(!). The amp stayed cool to the touch and sounded great. : )
Skylab
Reviewerus Prolificus
I will be very interested to hear your impression of the Mullard 6080 vs. the Tung-Sol 5998. I have found that the GEC (British) brown-base 6AS7G is much, much better than the RCA, but I still prefer the TS 5998 in the DV337 (in the Singlepower Extreme I prefer the GEC).
pataburd
Headphoneus Supremus
Quote:
Sky,
Tonight, God willing. But I have to find my 6AS7 and 6080 dampers first! : ) I'll also swap out the JAN Philips 6SJ7WGT for the JAN Sylvania VT-116A.
Haven't heard the British GECs yet, but they are more expensive than the Mullards from Langrex, Sussex.
PAB
| Originally Posted by Skylab /img/forum/go_quote.gif I will be very interested to hear your impression of the Mullard 6080 vs. the Tung-Sol 5998. I have found that the GEC (British) brown-base 6AS7G is much, much better than the RCA, but I still prefer the TS 5998 in the DV337 (in the Singlepower Extreme I prefer the GEC). |
Sky,
Tonight, God willing. But I have to find my 6AS7 and 6080 dampers first! : ) I'll also swap out the JAN Philips 6SJ7WGT for the JAN Sylvania VT-116A.
Haven't heard the British GECs yet, but they are more expensive than the Mullards from Langrex, Sussex.
PAB
pataburd
Headphoneus Supremus
Last night, at home, I ran the Darkvoice 337 out of my Panasonic S47 DVD player via MAC AgQ (pure silver/quad) interconnects. Tubes sets were 2x Tung-Sol 5998 v. 2x Mullard 6080, paired with the 2x JAN Sylvania VT-116A. Headphones were the (stock) D2000. Music was mainly African/world, including selections from Paul Simon’s “Graceland,” King Sunny Ade’s “Synchro System” and Putumayo’s “Travel the World” DVD.
While the 5998s had the edge in terms of absolute bass energy, slam, overall “grunt” power and a slight edge in terms of soundstage width, they tended to sound hard, especially in the upper midrange and treble. Paul Simon’s vocals erred toward uncomfortably bright, even strident, on “Crazy Love.” Vocals in general sounded hard and the midrange under developed compared to the 6080s. Also, I noted more hum with the 5998s (together with the VT-116A) than with the 6080s.
In pure vocal sections (e.g. the opening sequence to “Diamonds on the Soles of Her Shoes”), the 6080s far surpassed the 5998, IMHO, providing a lot more detail, subtlety, nuance, what-have-you. In comparison the 5998s, while more forceful, sounded stark and unengaging. The 6080s have the clear edge in terms of resolving detail, micro-dynamics and simple musicality, IMHO, too. What the Mullards seemed to lack in terms of sheer bass volume, they more than made up for in low frequency articulation and texture. What the Mullards concede to the Tung-Sols in terms of soundstage width, thy more than make up for with greater depth and front-to-back layering. Given the bass-prominent nature of the D2000, I would posit that the Mullards sounded more balanced with the Denon than did the Tung-Sols.
On King Sunny Ade’s “Tolongo” track, the Mullards provided so much more detail and dynamic variation/“topography” than the Tung-Sols, IMHE. Even though the 5998s do keep a tidy soundstage, with everything nailed down in its proper place, the 6080s went further: not only keeping the three, distinct electric guitars well-discriminated to the right, left and center, but also providing a musicality and synergy that the 5998’s seemed incapable of by comparison, given my source gear and choice of headphones.
During the course of this extended listening session (which ended, by the way, at 2:00 a.m.), I kept the Mullards in and listened to two full repeats of the Ade CD, together with the entire Putumayo DVD (this included three repeats of Oliver Mtukudzi’s live performance of “Hear Me, Lord”). These tubes seem just full of life and music, offering a level of detail, dynamic “fitness,” delicacy and nuance that left me not once—not even for a brief second—wanting the Tung-Sols.
Oh, and did I mention that I preferred the Mullard 6080s over the Tung-Sol 5998s with this gear and these applications? : )
While the 5998s had the edge in terms of absolute bass energy, slam, overall “grunt” power and a slight edge in terms of soundstage width, they tended to sound hard, especially in the upper midrange and treble. Paul Simon’s vocals erred toward uncomfortably bright, even strident, on “Crazy Love.” Vocals in general sounded hard and the midrange under developed compared to the 6080s. Also, I noted more hum with the 5998s (together with the VT-116A) than with the 6080s.
In pure vocal sections (e.g. the opening sequence to “Diamonds on the Soles of Her Shoes”), the 6080s far surpassed the 5998, IMHO, providing a lot more detail, subtlety, nuance, what-have-you. In comparison the 5998s, while more forceful, sounded stark and unengaging. The 6080s have the clear edge in terms of resolving detail, micro-dynamics and simple musicality, IMHO, too. What the Mullards seemed to lack in terms of sheer bass volume, they more than made up for in low frequency articulation and texture. What the Mullards concede to the Tung-Sols in terms of soundstage width, thy more than make up for with greater depth and front-to-back layering. Given the bass-prominent nature of the D2000, I would posit that the Mullards sounded more balanced with the Denon than did the Tung-Sols.
On King Sunny Ade’s “Tolongo” track, the Mullards provided so much more detail and dynamic variation/“topography” than the Tung-Sols, IMHE. Even though the 5998s do keep a tidy soundstage, with everything nailed down in its proper place, the 6080s went further: not only keeping the three, distinct electric guitars well-discriminated to the right, left and center, but also providing a musicality and synergy that the 5998’s seemed incapable of by comparison, given my source gear and choice of headphones.
During the course of this extended listening session (which ended, by the way, at 2:00 a.m.), I kept the Mullards in and listened to two full repeats of the Ade CD, together with the entire Putumayo DVD (this included three repeats of Oliver Mtukudzi’s live performance of “Hear Me, Lord”). These tubes seem just full of life and music, offering a level of detail, dynamic “fitness,” delicacy and nuance that left me not once—not even for a brief second—wanting the Tung-Sols.
Oh, and did I mention that I preferred the Mullard 6080s over the Tung-Sol 5998s with this gear and these applications? : )
pataburd
Headphoneus Supremus
RCA 5963 "Red Hots"
They seem to make things "bigger," but at the expense of control: bass is wooly, highs can be ringy and mids hard. Not in the same ballpark as either the Sylvania VT-116A or the KuhlTube CAA-6SJ7WGT; on par with, or slightly behind, the Philips 6SJ7WGT.
IMHO. : )
They seem to make things "bigger," but at the expense of control: bass is wooly, highs can be ringy and mids hard. Not in the same ballpark as either the Sylvania VT-116A or the KuhlTube CAA-6SJ7WGT; on par with, or slightly behind, the Philips 6SJ7WGT.
IMHO. : )
pataburd
Headphoneus Supremus
Svetlana 6H13C (Panasonic S47/MAC AgQ interconnects/coupled w/KuhlTube (Sylvania) CAA-6SJ7WGT):
Put these tubes in last night and had a long, memorable session with the K501.
This is the best I've heard from the K501 on the DV337 so far--plus, I probably got my K501 "ears" back to some degree, too.
The Svetlanas, to me, sound open, clean, extended, balanced and detailed, without harshness, and they add just a tinge of welcome warmishness/fluidity.
I'll a/b them with the Tung-Sol 5998 later, but from what I remember the 5998 can sound stiff and stark by comparison. I remember the music sounding strained/"pushed too hard" to the point of losing musicality with the 5998 on some tracks. (But who knows what the next listening session may bring?)
The Svetlana 6H13C was one of my favorite tubes with the 336i, and it earns its well-deserved place with the 337 as well, IMHE.
Put these tubes in last night and had a long, memorable session with the K501.
This is the best I've heard from the K501 on the DV337 so far--plus, I probably got my K501 "ears" back to some degree, too.
The Svetlanas, to me, sound open, clean, extended, balanced and detailed, without harshness, and they add just a tinge of welcome warmishness/fluidity.
I'll a/b them with the Tung-Sol 5998 later, but from what I remember the 5998 can sound stiff and stark by comparison. I remember the music sounding strained/"pushed too hard" to the point of losing musicality with the 5998 on some tracks. (But who knows what the next listening session may bring?)
The Svetlana 6H13C was one of my favorite tubes with the 336i, and it earns its well-deserved place with the 337 as well, IMHE.
paul_lindemann
Head-Fier
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Yes, the 6SN7 is an amazingly linear tube with many strengths including 8,000 hours useage!
LMK if you would like suggestions on the 6SN7 tubes...I'm the tube guy!
LMK if you would like suggestions on the 6SN7 tubes...I'm the tube guy!
Skylab
Reviewerus Prolificus
Interesting findings Pat! I think it proves how important synergy is - my headphones are different from yours, and I prefer different tubes with them it would seem (although will be interesting to get your report on the 5998's).
tigerkai
New Head-Fier
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Quote:
Hi Skylab,how u find the sound of TUNG-SOL CTL-6SJ7GT with Mullard 6080 or Tung-Sol 5998?
| Originally Posted by Skylab /img/forum/go_quote.gif Interesting findings Pat! I think it proves how important synergy is - my headphones are different from yours, and I prefer different tubes with them it would seem (although will be interesting to get your report on the 5998's). |
Hi Skylab,how u find the sound of TUNG-SOL CTL-6SJ7GT with Mullard 6080 or Tung-Sol 5998?
Skylab
Reviewerus Prolificus
Quote:
I think the mesh-plate Tung-Sol JAN-CTL 6SJ7GT's are the best 6SJ7 there is, and I have tried pretty much all of them. They are hard to find, but they are worth seeking out.
I tried the Mullard 6080. They do seem better than other 6080's, but I still preferred the Tung-Sol 5998 by a fairly wide margin. The Mullard 6080's are still a bit too lean sounding for me. The 5998 is not as fat sounding as an RCA 6AS7G, but it is lusher than even the Mullard 6080, while still being more detailed than any other 6AS7/6080 there is. This, to me, is the magic of the 5998.
| Originally Posted by tigerkai /img/forum/go_quote.gif Hi Skylab,how u find the sound of TUNG-SOL CTL-6SJ7GT with Mullard 6080 or Tung-Sol 5998? |
I think the mesh-plate Tung-Sol JAN-CTL 6SJ7GT's are the best 6SJ7 there is, and I have tried pretty much all of them. They are hard to find, but they are worth seeking out.
I tried the Mullard 6080. They do seem better than other 6080's, but I still preferred the Tung-Sol 5998 by a fairly wide margin. The Mullard 6080's are still a bit too lean sounding for me. The 5998 is not as fat sounding as an RCA 6AS7G, but it is lusher than even the Mullard 6080, while still being more detailed than any other 6AS7/6080 there is. This, to me, is the magic of the 5998.
pataburd
Headphoneus Supremus
Quote:
Not surprisingly, my experience with the Mullard 6080/Tung-Sol 5998 is quite different from Skylab's.
Yes, the 5998s do sound "thicker," with more bass and drive, but to me it's like merely putting a bold outline around things--like we did with our Kindergarten coloring books--but with no subtleties of color, shading or contour inside the outline: just a static monochrome. That's how the 5998 strikes me. And, to my ears, the Tung-Sol can sound overly brash in the upper mids and treble, neither living nor breathing in its rendition of vocals; bordering, rather, on mechanical-sounding, I'd say.
In addition--and I may have a failing tube, the Tung-Sol hums like no other power tube I currently own at the moment.
Funny, I prefer both the Mullard 6080 and the Svetlana 6H13C to the Tung-Sol, and feel that the 6H13C is, overall, a much better balanced tube than the 5998. Lastly, the Mullards need about 40 hours to open up and sound their best, IMHE.
I'd like to try the mesh plate 6SJ7s, too (I've seen some mesh plates--not sure if they're the JAN-CTL versions--for about $85/pair, I think), but with the Bada going in for a major round of mods right now, the DV337 will probably only fill in while the Bada's away (so I won't want to sink any more money into tubes). Already preferring the stock Bada to the DV337, I see the 337's ultimate role (after it's sold) as helping to pay, and just barely, for the Bada upgrades.
While I'm glad to say that I had the chance to audition the Darkvoice 337, I probably won't miss this amp a whole lot when it's gone. : )
| Originally Posted by Skylab /img/forum/go_quote.gif I think the mesh-plate Tung-Sol JAN-CTL 6SJ7GT's are the best 6SJ7 there is, and I have tried pretty much all of them. They are hard to find, but they are worth seeking out. I tried the Mullard 6080. They do seem better than other 6080's, but I still preferred the Tung-Sol 5998 by a fairly wide margin. The Mullard 6080's are still a bit too lean sounding for me. The 5998 is not as fat sounding as an RCA 6AS7G, but it is lusher than even the Mullard 6080, while still being more detailed than any other 6AS7/6080 there is. This, to me, is the magic of the 5998. |
Not surprisingly, my experience with the Mullard 6080/Tung-Sol 5998 is quite different from Skylab's.
Yes, the 5998s do sound "thicker," with more bass and drive, but to me it's like merely putting a bold outline around things--like we did with our Kindergarten coloring books--but with no subtleties of color, shading or contour inside the outline: just a static monochrome. That's how the 5998 strikes me. And, to my ears, the Tung-Sol can sound overly brash in the upper mids and treble, neither living nor breathing in its rendition of vocals; bordering, rather, on mechanical-sounding, I'd say.
In addition--and I may have a failing tube, the Tung-Sol hums like no other power tube I currently own at the moment.
Funny, I prefer both the Mullard 6080 and the Svetlana 6H13C to the Tung-Sol, and feel that the 6H13C is, overall, a much better balanced tube than the 5998. Lastly, the Mullards need about 40 hours to open up and sound their best, IMHE.
I'd like to try the mesh plate 6SJ7s, too (I've seen some mesh plates--not sure if they're the JAN-CTL versions--for about $85/pair, I think), but with the Bada going in for a major round of mods right now, the DV337 will probably only fill in while the Bada's away (so I won't want to sink any more money into tubes). Already preferring the stock Bada to the DV337, I see the 337's ultimate role (after it's sold) as helping to pay, and just barely, for the Bada upgrades.
While I'm glad to say that I had the chance to audition the Darkvoice 337, I probably won't miss this amp a whole lot when it's gone. : )
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